Shen Men Tao

[Antonius]

Dear Ahsun,

Who is "right" or "wrong" depends entirely on your perspective.

From my perspective, the recent diversions in this thread are in direct response to Sifu Stier's blatant disrespect towards Shaolin Wahnam. And the diversions will continue until Sifu Stier makes ammends (which gets harder and harder every minute).

For myself, I simply will not let Sifu Stier's disrespect go unchallenged. It would be unbecoming of me to allow a guest to behave so rudely on our forum. I will not just stand by and let Sifu Stier openly disrespect my Sifu, my school, and my classmates.

If Sifu Stier would like to continue using this thread to talk about his Shen Men Tao system, then the least he can do is afford us, his hosts, the proper respect.

Adamantly,

[Antonius]

Dear Alberto,

Your discussion about learning from Shaolin Wahnam is merely an academic question at this point. It has already been decided that you are not to be accepted as a Shaolin Wahnam student.

Your views about our generosity are irrelevant. We need not explain our decision. It is enough for you to know that the decision has been made.

I might remind you that your ability to participate in our discussion forum is entirely at our discretion. Whether you like it or not, we can remove you from our forum without explanation. Right now we allow you to stay because we find you amusing.

Regards,

[Antonius]

Dear Sifu Stier,

Since you failed to respond appropriately to my previous posts, I will take your last post, where you attached various images of Bagua mirrors, as your response.

As I understand it, the primary purpose of a Bagua mirror is to reflect and redirect negative energy. I can only assume that these images, in combination with the words "Yielding and Reflecting," are somehow meant to imply that you are now reflecting and yielding the negative energy of this thread.

I take this as yet another example of you failing to be simple and direct. Rather than simply (and sincerely) apologize for the disrepect you have shown, you prefer to "reflect" the blame back to others. You refuse to take responsibility for your actions and instead claim innocence, albeit silently.

Sifu Stier, this will not do. I will say it again: You have publically insulted my colleagues, my school, and my Sifu. So far, no apology has been offered. On the contrary, you have ignored our requests and attempted to defend your position, thereby increasing the insult.

Respectfully,

[alexstedman]

Dear friends and family

I have been off this forum for a quite a while now, but I have still read it everyday. I have watched things develop, and now so many things are going on at once that I too feel the need to post again.

In this post, I will address three main points.

1) It looks like another feud is starting with Alberto. I'm going to give my opinion, but I'll try to keep it brief. It is sidetracking from the Shen men Tao thread.

2) I'll also put my opinion forward on Sifu Stier

3) I'm going to post on yielding, from my experience.

Alberto

Alberto, I have been reading your posts and the responses to them from a distance. I haven't posted, I have just read. I do believe, however, that you are sincere in wanting to learn. I intend the following to be constructive criticism. Some may see it as helping, others may see it as insulting. I hope you see the former.

You're heart is in the right place, but dammit man you're thinking too much.

Judging from your posts, I'd say you were like me before I started learning. Then I had a BIG change in my life, and it was that change that opened up my mind, or to put it better, opened up my heart. With that new frame of mind, I was able to learn without judgement of the teachings, and to just trust that what I was learning was best for me at the time. I'm not saying you need a similar change of life to happen, but I think you need a change of heart, before you can start learning. You're almost there, but your pre-conceived notions are in the way. It is this 'closed mind' that will stop you from fully benefitting from available teachings, be it Sifu's or others.

Sifu Stier

Onto Sifu Stier, well hasn't this been a ride so far (or in better words, 'been a hoot'). I will also freely admit that Sifu Stier often comes across as a bit of a school-yard bully to others, and even imposes his views on us with a kind of "well that's your opinion, but I'm still right" attitude. However, I adopted that attitude with him when talking about electro-magnetic energy and chi. I did apologise to him (privately) for my actions, and since then have taken his posts with a 'pinch of salt', since I know how easy it is to come across as arrogant when only words are used (they say about 10% of communication is through words. The other 90% cannot be shown through a forum). I'm not arrogant, but sometimes it may seem like it.

However, he did make his feelings quite clear towards Marcus, the other instructors, and (maybe inadvertantly) towards Sifu. We all know he made a wrong judgement. He based his views on the instructors, through their involvement in a forum That's just silly, and I have a feeling that Sifu Stier maybe feeling a little sheepish over that, although he may not want to admit it.

Sifu Stier, it is time for you to swallow your pride and apologise. You may not have intended to insult us (which you say, but I'm personally not convinced) but the fact of the matter is you did insult us. Pretty much publicly. There are over 1,000 members to this forum, and that's a lot of people to stand up in front of. I may kick a ball, and if it accidentally hits someone, I say sorry immediately. However, if (for some reason) I intend to hit that person with the ball, then I would not apologise. Your extended silence speaks more as the days go by.

Yielding

Yay! Back on track. My only experience with yielding has been with friendly sparring, and never with a real fight. So although my experience is limited, it's still an experience.

Yielding, to me, is flowing with the opponents momentum, possibly even letting them do what they want to do. Yet at the last moment, when they think they have succeeded, you not only foil their attempts but you do so using what they have set-up. The opponent brings on their own defeat.

When I had a taster of Taijiquan, one of the patterns I learned was how to neutralise a throw. It involved my opponent in a Bow-Arrow stance with their front leg behind mine. They then turned to sit in a Horse-riding stance, using the turning momentum to throw me to the ground, with their arms on my shoulders. The counter I learned was to follow the momentum, and take a big step in the direction of motion (to regain my balance). I then rooted myself, and used to same technique to fell the opponent. He often fell because the turning motion of the hips, although great for throwing, proved a slight disadvantage in balance. Of course, with practice no-one felled the other. We just went round in circles

Sifu Stiers comments on how he would use yielding in a fight was thought of as 'low-level' by brother Marcus. I agree that they are low-level, but I would also use them first in a fight. If an opponent rushes towards you, letting him go into a wall because of his own stupidity may do more than just injure him. It may make him realise you mean business in using such a simple technique, and through his embarassment, he may not want to fight any longer.

Only if he continues to fight, would high-level skills and techniques have to be used. I consider this 'asessing your opponent', the second of the four preperations. Testing him, seeing what his weaknesses are (which, if he is silly enough to rush towards you, are probably on display quite clearly) and exploiting those weaknesses.

OK, I have no more to say. Thanks for reading.

Warm regards to all
Alex

[Sifu Stier]

Tonight I sat in Silence beneath a Gorgeous Moon...
Wondering...what would Buddha do?
Would Jesus sing their tune?
Until the Storm has passed away...
And Light of Reason fills the Day...
I shall calmly contemplate...
And wait to have my say!

Hari Om!

Sifu Stier

[Andrew]

For Elton John fans ....

It's sad, so sad
It's a sad, sad situation
And it's getting more and more absurd
It's sad, so sad
Why can't we talk it over
Oh it seems to me
That sorry seems to be the hardest word

Andrew

[Sifu Stier]

Double Edged Sword!

Sifu Barnett:

Awesome response! You're the man. That's an excellent song with a very appropriate lyric for everyone here. A Double Edged Sword that cuts both ways indeed!

[Andrew]

Sifu Stier,

I'm pleased you acknowledge the need for you to apologise. But I'm disappointed that you only acknowledge the need and do not go further to actually do so.

Andrew

[Sifu Stier]

Patience is a Virtue! There will be no wine before it's time!

Sifu Stier

[Adam B]

Patience is a Virtue! There will be no wine before it's time!

When someone invites you to dinner, do you tell them when it is time to eat?

[Tapio Raevaara]

Sifu Barnett:

Awesome response! You're the man. That's an excellent song with a very appropriate lyric for everyone here. A Double Edged Sword that cuts both ways indeed!

Dear Sifu Stier,

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting this correctly... Are you actually waiting for an apology yourself? A bargain, perhaps?

Patience is a Virtue! There will be no wine before it's time!

So, you are also waiting that we prove ourselves worthy of your apology? And when you finally do offer it, it is only an example of your grace?

Or are you just trying to confuse us with all these pictures and indirect responses?

At first, I thougt all this was just a big misunderstanding - or, rather, I wanted to believe so. Now things are becoming clearer. I am truly sorry that things have come down to this.

Sifu Stier, although you may not be aware, I have enjoyed immensely reading your commentaries on Shen Men Tao. Please forgive me, that I have only given my comments after things turned negative!

Best wishes,
Tapio

[Kevin]

Come on now Sifu Stier..(and please let me emphasize that I use the term "sifu" when addressing you simply because it is how you are known on this Forum.) This is getting ridiculous. As was stated much earlier on, this is Grand Master Wong's website, the Shaolin Wahnam Website. And the Shen Men Tao thread belongs to him, not you. It is not yours, you have no special claim over it. You have been allowed to post on it just as everyone else. And your privelege to be able to post on the Forum can easily be taken away..in fact I'm surprised that it hasn't been already with your recent behavior/words and total lack of an apology or taking any responsibility for your actions.

And your last post, as many of your recent ones, continues to have the tone of a spoiled child rather than a Master. "I'll do it when I want to"..that's what I'm hearing.."Mine, mine, mine..". It's getting rather tiresome. In fact I admire and respect the patience and tolerance that Shaolin Wahnam has shown you. If this had been my Forum, you and your negativity would have been permanently removed already. But, as I said, this is the Shaolin Wahnam Forum. The Wahnam Family knows what's it's doing. They are in charge here, not me. And I humbly and respectfully acknowledge that I am their guest on this Forum and website. I have no doubt they will take the appropriate action at the appropriate time, despite what you say or don't say.

My thanks go out to Sifu Korahais and all of the Shaolin Wahnam Sifus who have posted on this thread and kept it right on track. Your diligence and courage are admired and appreciated, and I have no dobut they will continue.

Kevin

[Andrew]

Dear all,

Having reviewed the most recent posts (and non-posts) in this thread, I was seriously considering moving them to a new thread to leave this thread open for its intended purpose -- to learn more about the Shen Men Tao system.

However, on further consideration, I believe that all of the posts are actually in the right place. Why? Simple:
- If you want to judge a teacher, look at his/her students.
- If you want to see the ultimate benefits a system may bring, look at the grandmaster of that system.

So reading these latest posts carefully will yield:
- How Sifu Wong's students reflect upon Sifu Wong (this as a by-product of this thread)
- How Sifu Stier reflects the ultimate benefits of his system

Andrew

[Antonius]

The Gauntlet

Dear Sifu Stier,

Since you have refused to apologize for your insults towards Sifu Wong and Shaolin Wahnam, you give us little choice. Your disrespectful behavior forces us to view you not as a distinguished guest, but rather as an adversary.

I might point out that, in Shaolin Wahnam, we are courteous even to our adversaries. It is in this spirit that I will make a proposal. Since you are so fond of telling people to "put up or shut up," I propose that you do the same:

Put up or shut up, Sifu Stier.

By "put up," I propose that you take Sifu Santer's challenge of debate. He has thrown down the gauntlet in response to your insults, and patiently awaits you to show up to the verbal sparring match. Or perhaps you are only able to spar with your fists, and not with your mind?

If you refuse to respond to this challenge, then we will take your silence to mean the following:

1. You agree with Sifu Marcus that your concept of yielding is shallow.
2. You agree with Sifu Marcus that your techniques are of a low level.

Respectfully,

[Antonius]

Water under the bridge.

In light of this post here, I am reopening this thread.

I would also like to mention that I sent an email to Sifu Stier in an effort to find an amicable solution to the previous stalemate. That email included an offer to reopen this thread. Since I never heard back from Sifu Stier (or perhaps never received his email since I have been having some email problems of late), I didn't reopen this thread.

But as I said in the post above, that issue is water under the bridge now, at least as far as Shaolin Wahnam is concerned. Although we still feel that an apology would have been appropriate, we will no longer press the issue. As Sifu Marcus is fond of saying, "No matter how thin you slice it, there are always two sides." Our "side" may have a different perspective than Sifu Stier's "side," but we still value his contribution to this discussion forum.

On that note, I'm happy to reopen this thread, and to allow Sifu Stier to keep sharing his wisdom about his Shen Men Tao system. I hope that this thread can now proceed in a respectful and informative direction.

Best regards,