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  • #31
    Forced to Fight!

    Kevin:

    It's true that I've had more than a fair share of live fighting encounters, but it certainly wasn't planned that way. When I opened my first school more than 30 years ago, the martial arts didn't enjoy the widespread popularity that they do today, so public perception of the arts was much different then. The Bruce Lee films and the David Carradine television series 'Kung-Fu' had generated some interest, but most of the low budget Hong Kong films were so bad that many people didn't take it very seriously. There was definitely a growing curiosity about it all, however.

    As a result, anyone who opened a martial arts school of any style, and advertised in the Yellow Page Telephone Directory, or who hung up posters around the city and did public demonstrations of their art anywhere, essentially became a target for guys who thought it was all a load of BS, or who wanted to test it out before spending money on instruction. Not always, but usually it would be possible to satisfy the curiosity of those who actually walked into the kwoon through open discussion about what was being practiced and taught...without fighting...without anyone getting hurt.

    However, most of those with whom I fought were ambushers who laid in wait to strike from a hidden position for the advantage of sudden surprise...just in case there really was something credible about all this martial art stuff. I sometimes 'sensed' intuitively that some imminent danger was present, but since I rarely had any personal contact with such individuals prior to these encounters, it was generally impossible to know who intended to test me or when and where they planned to do so.

    As such, I have always just gone about my business, knowing that if and when potential harm came my way, I'd be able to react and respond spontaneously and automatically in the mere blink of an eye. This is what I meant previously in saying that the best strategy for me was no stategy at all, devoid of hypothetical analysis of probable tactics if they do this or do that, because I learned quickly that I wouldn't be able to predict what would happen in most cases.

    The only factors realistically within my control, therefore, were and are my physical training such as stretching, strengthening, Form Sets, enhancing my sense perceptions, et cetera; my intrinsic energy training such as chi-kung and pranayama; and my mental preparedness such as awareness of my surroundings, enhancing my mental focus and concentration, increasing my spiritual grounding through prayer and meditation, and so forth.

    When these factors are in place...programmed into the inner computer so to speak...everything else takes care if itself automatically. As the Venerable Lao-Tzu states in the Tao Te Ching..."The Superior Man of Tao does nothing, and yet nothing is left undone." And so, that's how it's always been!

    It was always my intention, no matter what happened, to injure my assailants as little as possible under the circumstances. Thus, I never maimed or killed any of them, and most ambushers or outright challengers became my students and friends. All's well that ends well!

    Sifu Stier
    http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

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    • #32
      Thus, I never maimed or killed any of them, and most ambushers or outright challengers became my students and friends.
      I'm very happy to hear you say this, Sifu Stier. I only wish that some of my former teachers could say the same. The strategy that I was taught back then was simple: kill or be killed. Needless to say, I'm happy to have found Sifu Wong, who teaches us to be compassionate even in a real fight.
      Last edited by Antonius; 21 March 2006, 01:32 AM.
      Sifu Anthony Korahais
      www.FlowingZen.com
      (Click here to learn more about me.)

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      • #33
        By the way, Kevin, I'd also like to applaud you for your improved clarity, and also your courage. It's true that some of your post was off topic, but that happens to the best of us. Overall, I thought you made some excellent points in your post.
        Sifu Anthony Korahais
        www.FlowingZen.com
        (Click here to learn more about me.)

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        • #34
          agree to... agree???

          Originally posted by Sifu Stier
          ...I'd be able to react and respond spontaneously and automatically in the mere blink of an eye. This is what I meant previously in saying that the best strategy for me was no stategy at all, devoid of hypothetical analysis of probable tactics if they do this or do that...
          ...
          When these factors are in place...programmed into the inner computer so to speak...everything else takes care if itself automatically. As the Venerable Lao-Tzu states in the Tao Te Ching..."The Superior Man of Tao does nothing, and yet nothing is left undone." And so, that's how it's always been!
          I think all traditional schools can agree on this point. It is the gift of past masters to us that all the "thinking" in a fight has in some sense been done for the exponent. The "thinking" and "hypothetical analysis" has been conducted for centuries, crystallized in the pedagogical sets of a given style--patterns of stimulus and response that has been discovered and found to be advantageous. And once programmed into the brain the need for analytical thinking is greatly reduced. Of course, before a fight, if you have the luxury of knowing what kind of attack the opponent will tend towards (or even the opponent's physical attributes), then you may adjust your own patterns accordingly. I couldn't imagine even attempting push-hands without first having been familiarized with grasping sparrow's tail...

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          • #35
            It was always my intention, no matter what happened, to injure my assailants as little as possible under the circumstances.
            This is very admirable. Thank you.



            With Shaolin Salute,
            Charles David Chalmers
            Brunei Darussalam

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            • #36
              Class Discrimination!

              Gentlemen:

              Sifu Lee taught us in Shen Men Tao that there are several classes of fighters or boxers, and that every fighter classifies himself by the intentions which motivate his actions more than by his skills and techniques. A boxer of any category from the most ethical to the least ethical may have masterful skills, and possess expertise in many, many techniques.

              Sifu Stier
              http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

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              • #37
                Just a quick post to thank Kevin for his contribution.
                Originally posted by Kevin
                Sifu Stier's posts on this Forum continue to teach me lessons..lessons he's probably not even aware he's giving.
                Well said ---- we are all learning

                Andrew
                Sifu Andrew Barnett
                Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
                Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

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                • #38
                  I just wanted to thank Sifu Stier for his clear explanation regarding his past need to fight/defend himself. It was very clear and thorough.
                  I'd also like to say that I agree with the strategy/tactic of responding to an attack spontaneously and automatically, without hypothetical reasoning, etc.
                  In other words, just letting your skills flow without the interruption of conscious thought.

                  That actually reminds me of two small stories.
                  One is about the centipede. He's walking along on his merry way, his many, many legs in perfect sync. And then someone asks him how he manages to walk on so many legs and keep them in perfect harmony. The minute the centipede stops to actually think about how he does it, he falls over.

                  The other is a part from Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon. It's been years since I've seen this movie, but toward the beginning Lee's character is walking and talking with his Kung Fu Sifu. Anyway, his teacher is asking him questions to test his level of understanding, and at the end, Lee's character says something to the effect of, "And when the time is right, I do not hit..(raising his fist)-"It" hits all by itself. Meaning he doesn't intellectualize what he's going to do, he allows his skill to flow and respond naturally.

                  Thank you to the Wahnam Sifus who commented on my last couple of posts.

                  Kevin

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                  • #39
                    This thread has been reopened and split into a new thread entitled, "Knowledge vs. Experience, High Level vs. Low Level, Etc.", which can be found here:



                    I'd also like to point readers to the post I made there, which explains why the thread was closed:

                    Last edited by Antonius; 26 March 2006, 09:15 AM.
                    Sifu Anthony Korahais
                    www.FlowingZen.com
                    (Click here to learn more about me.)

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                    • #40
                      And with this thread showing off it's brand new streamlined structure (this years Model, many new features), I'd like to return the thread to it's initial topic - Strategy and Tactics.

                      Back in post #23, Anthony Sihing asked
                      can anyone spot the tactics that I'm using in this post?
                      I'd like to open this up even further - who has spotted any of the Instructors using Strategies and Tactics in their writings and who can name which Strategy or Tactic were they using?.

                      There's several assumptions in my question;

                      1) That the Shaolin Wahnam instructors use Strategies and/or Tactics when writing.
                      2) That the Forum readers have enough understanding of these philosophies to be able to notice them
                      3) That people would see the benefits of such an undertaking

                      So before we progress to the main purpose of this thread, lets address these three questions .
                      Last edited by Darryl; 31 March 2006, 10:15 AM.

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                      • #41
                        I'm not falling for that old trick!

                        Darryl Siheng,

                        Excellent idea.

                        One tactic is to purposely leave an opening to tempt the (foolish)"opponent" to make an attack for which one is well prepared.

                        For example, you wrote:
                        lets address these three questions
                        when there is apparently only one or two questions:
                        who has spotted any of the Instructors using Strategies and Tactics in their writings and who can name which Strategy or Tactic were they using?
                        but obviously three statements.

                        One might assume that you made an error in stating that there are three questions since it comes directly after your three statements. One might then feel safe to come in and attack you with a condescending correction:

                        "would you mind telling us what three questions you are referring to?"


                        With Shaolin Spirit,
                        Charles David Chalmers
                        Brunei Darussalam

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                        • #42
                          I'm a little confused right now, but these last two posts are definitely interesting..........

                          Mark
                          Facebook

                          "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

                          -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

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                          • #43
                            Cha Muir if I didn't know better I'd say you are over analysing Darryl's post

                            I'd like to open this up even further - who has spotted any of the Instructors using Strategies and Tactics in their writings and who can name which Strategy or Tactic were they using?.
                            I'm in the same boat as Mark. This is going to lead so some confusing discussions lol
                            from the ♥

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                            • #44
                              Overanalysis? OVERanalysis? OverANALYSIS??

                              Hi Mike,

                              Thanks for your concern.



                              In retrospect, I could be wrong; perhaps Darryl really DID make a mistake


                              With Shaolin Microscope,
                              Charles David Chalmers
                              Brunei Darussalam

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                              • #45
                                Hello everyone ,

                                I'm entertaining guests over the next few days, so I'm rather limited on my Forum time.

                                So - there are Strategies, there are Tactics and there are Mistakes ... (discussion keeps going)

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