Which is better?

[Alex McLeod]

I had an interesting question this morning that came to mind while making some tea. I thought you would have some fun thinking about the answer, so I will share it.

In Gainesville 2008, Sifu did a course on Massaging Internal organs. It was only 3-4 hours long, so obviously the fewer exercises the better. He taught using Merry-go-round for massaging the stomach, separating water to massage the lungs and nourishing kidneys to massage the kidneys.

Obviously, the Heart is incredibly delicate and shouldn't be directly dealt with, at least in that type of class, so that's the reason way no massaging heart. However, the liver is a fairly resilient organ, and part of the last of the elemental systems.

If you were to pick an appropriate exercise for targeting the liver to do massaging internal organs, which would it be?

I don't want to sway anyone else with my musings, but the two that I immediately thought of and couldn't decide between due to different drawbacks are Punching with Angry Eyes and Closing Down.

I'm not sure if that's the right name for the second exercise as I've never heard it referred to with a name, so I am just using the name other systems refer to the pattern with.

By Closing Down, I am referring to the pattern where the arms come up and then sweep down the front of the body toward the Abdominal Dan Tian. For instance used before sheathing the fists when getting into horse stance.

What do you all think? One of those? A different one?

[Bernhard]

Maybe I would use the Deer Play of the Five Animal Play or the gentle Big Windmill.

[Damian Kissey]

Thanks Alex for sharing .

An informed opinion :

Chi kung wise , Merry-go-round , good for all abdominal organ systems including the liver system.

Kung fu wise , the thrice Cup-fist punching with "hoooo" sound from the liver , ie a portion of Art of One Finger Shooting Zen.

Zen wise , the Medical Big Universe , good for all 12 organ systems including the liver system .

[Alex McLeod]

Only two replies and already some very interesting options. Obviously the best way to figure it out would be to test the options and see which is the best at assisting the qi to go to the liver.

Bernhard, why those particular exercises?

I will say that Damian siheng's suggestion of using the cup fist punching does eliminate the downsides of angry eyes punching and targets the liver more directly than closing down.

Since there's already an option that does what my original choices do but better with no downsides, I will go ahead and explain my thoughts on why I would have used closing down. This exercise is used in some Taoist qigong traditions to help balance the Wood pulse like so:

If the wood pulse becomes unbalanced, the energy will tend to shoot up to the head. By repetitively sweeping the hands and mind downward in front of the body, this tendency is countered and the wood systems grow more healthy.

Obviously, the downside of using this exercise for massaging the liver is that it doesn't directly target the liver, but instead targets the pulse that the liver is part of. Therefore, it's not direct, and thus fails the rubric of simple, direct and effective.

I can't wait to see if anyone else has some interesting options.

[Bernhard]

The Deer Play helped me a few weeks ago to cleans my liver especially emotionally.

The gentle Big Windmill is a liver exercise too.

Here is a link to a list my Sifu made about the benefits of the 18 Lohan Hands. https://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/fo...cial-benefits=

But remember that 60% of the benefits of Chi Kung come from the right mind, 30% from the energy and 10% from the form. My Sifu recently talked about it in a beginner class and I am thankful about it because I understood it on a deeper level. I was too fixed on the form.

I too want to mention that it is important to let the Chi Flow be as it is. Or to make it more clear it is important on the level that I am currently am. I am on the health level. I don't know what your level is. Peak performance and spirituality is higher and I have no experience. My experience with letting the Chi Flow work as it is is better than expecting something. I am now practicing Embracing Buddha the last two weeks and different things were cleansed. Last Saturday for example I had a cleansing of my eyes. A few days before I had a cleansing of the heart. And last Tuesday I had a cleansing of the legs and I felt agile and light not only in the legs but also in the mind. All with the same technique.

[Anton S.]

By Closing Down, I am referring to the pattern where the arms come up and then sweep down the front of the body toward the Abdominal Dan Tian. For instance used before sheathing the fists when getting into horse stance.

In that regard lifting Sun and Moon would be a better choice as compared to "Closing Down". (Lifting Sun and Moon: Arms with open hands going up (palms facing upward) and down (palms facing downward) on both sides of the body)
Beyond that there isn`t much to add to Sisook Damians excellent answer

All with the same technique.

This is it! On one hand the technique matters less (as it is more about flow) on the over hand the right technique may bring a few more benefits.

In general the most basic chi kung will be the best for health, so you could pick deer play as Bernhard suggested. Although it will be more suitable for free flow than massaging internal organs.

Most important is the fact that massaging internal organs is a skill, not a technique.