Amazing result doing horse stance.

[Leon Leonhart]

Hello everybody,Nice to meet u all,Im preety new here but i have been lurking about and reading some topics,espicially those related with the horse riding stance.

Just wanna share with u all an amazing thing that happened to me,Ive been practicing the horse for 4 months now,and can hold a resonably low horse stance for 20 min.though ive always been tensed .However after reading all those great topics regarding the horse stance on this forum,i tried doing the horse stance without thinking about anything and counting my breathes.The benefits of doing the horse stance while tense are little,for example leg muscles and powerful punches,however after doing it relaxed for the first time,I felt 3 time more power in my punches and kicks.and best thing is i dont feel tired,i feel energized. .

I just wanna say thank you to the wonderful community here for providing such good information, .

Leon.

[Simon]

Hi Leon,

keep up the good work. Horse Riding stance and Golden Bridge play such an important role in Shaolin Kung Fu, I'm glad you have discovered the key to relaxing in to it. I'm sure you'll agree on the increased results.

Simon

[JamesAnderson]

Being a relative beginner to the Shaolin arts, I still find horse stance quite difficult for long periods.

I find it hard to relax whilst doing something that involves so much tension. I guess it is just practice practice practice though. One thing I do find interesting however is that if I have been in the stance for say 5 minutes and my legs start to really feel the strain, if I start doing 1 fingered shooting zen, I can hold it for another 5 minutes no problem. I guess this gives me hope and a little insight as to what it means to relax whilst in the position.

[subclock]

James,

Horse Stance is one of the most challenging ( also see rewarding ) aspects of Shaolinquan training. So do not get discouraged by the way your body is behaving at the moment.

Part of the process of learning Horse Stance is to develop Internal Force and good Energy Flow in your legs. Also, part of the process is that your legs will lose their old strength, then gain a new strength ( actually, I think this happens several times ). When your old strength is going and your new strength has not yet manifested fully, your legs can take quite a lot of strain and you may find you cannot hold the posture for as long as before. When your new strength takes hold you will lose most ( if not all ) tension from your legs and you will be able to hold a Horse Stance for at least a few minutes with ease.

I find it hard to relax whilst doing something that involves so much tension. I guess it is just practice practice practice though.

At first it may seem like a contradiction to be relaxed when your body wants to tense up so much. But, you will find after time ( and lots of practice ! ) that you will understand this concept very clearly.

good luck !

Best Wishes ,
Kevin

[JamesAnderson]

James,

Horse Stance is one of the most challenging ( also see rewarding ) aspects of Shaolinquan training. So do not get discouraged by the way your body is behaving at the moment.

Part of the process of learning Horse Stance is to develop Internal Force and good Energy Flow in your legs. Also, part of the process is that your legs will lose their old strength, then gain a new strength ( actually, I think this happens several times ). When your old strength is going and your new strength has not yet manifested fully, your legs can take quite a lot of strain and you may find you cannot hold the posture for as long as before. When your new strength takes hold you will lose most ( if not all ) tension from your legs and you will be able to hold a Horse Stance for at least a few minutes with ease.



At first it may seem like a contradiction to be relaxed when your body wants to tense up so much. But, you will find after time ( and lots of practice ! ) that you will understand this concept very clearly.

good luck !

Best Wishes ,
Kevin

Thanks for the reply Kevin. I have to admit since starting Shaolin KungFu the horse stance has definitely been getting easier week by week, and as I say when I take my mind off my legs (by doing 1 fingered shooting zen), I can do it for alot longer, proving that the mind can control the pain that is endured I think.

No pain, no gain though so I guess it's just a case of practising every day. I look forward to the rewards it brings.

[Jim Redfern]

stance practise

Hi everyone,

I've found that doing stance practise is very enjoyable. Initially I found that my legs ached and were painful as I tried to hold the horse stance and it was a task, but lately I've found that instead of aching another feeling goes into my legs, not dissimilar to aching but is instead it's pleasurable! I'm sure it's the chi that I've just built up from the lifting the sky exercise which I do prior to the stance training. It feels like I could stay in the stances for a long long time but when my legs start shaking a lot I decide to stop in case I hurt my muscles. Afterwards I feel great. Definate benefits to be gained from this practise

best wishes,

Jim

[Cragget]

Hi guys,


Here’s something that I find very useful when practising the horse-riding stance gets difficult. It’s pretty much applicable all the time, I’m just emphasising its importance in this case. To begin with, I smile from the heart deeply, make sure I am relaxed and gently sink with my dan tian; letting my chi tell me where to go. I then make sure my chi is flowing smoothly all the way from top to bottom and not sporadic.

As Sifu has said, the most important thing is to be relaxed. If you’re relaxed and paying attention to where your chi is telling you to go in the stance, half the battle’s over. :

Best wishes,

Craig

[subclock]

Hi James,

I can do it for alot longer, proving that the mind can control the pain that is endured I think.

No pain, no gain though so I guess it's just a case of practising every day. I look forward to the rewards it brings.

I think you slightly misunderstand. No Pain, No Gain does not and should not apply to Shaolinquan training. If you are in pain, then you may have a blockage, you may be practising incorrectly, or you are practising for too long.
Gradual Progress is important. Don't compare yourself to anyone else. Just hold the stance for as long as you can without tensing up. If you tense up but you want to carry on then try to relax yourself again. If you can't relax again then it is time to stop.

Best Wishes,
Kevin

[Maxime]

I love Zhan Zhuang, so I can't help but add a few words of mine. May I?

'No pain, no gain' might be a matter of semantics.

I agree with Kevin (altough sometimes there is good pain). 'No pain, no gain' in Shaolin should only reflect that there is no progress without hard (meaning consistent) practice and effort. If you prefer lying down on your couch rather than practicing, then no good result will come from this. Logical. But the practice, whilst being consistent and backed up with some effort, should be enjoyable.

In Zhan Zhuang, you are physically, mentally and emotionally relax. Being relax, you do not use your muscles (i.e muscular tension) nor make tremendous effort with your mind (i.e tensing your mind by using will); Zhan Zhuang, with practice, will bring a peaceful meditative state of mind, enjoyable, where the emotions are not an hindrance anymore.

Since we are in a meditative state of mind without tension, our energy can carry us in the stance. We are not holding the posture anymore, we are the posture. We can't force the process, but gently let it come with our relaxation.

I have been practicing Horse Stance for the last four years. Before I learned from Sifu, I reached a plateau of 7 or 8 minutes without being able to go further. I used to watch time, and made my Zhang Zhuang a time contest. I did not get much benefit from it.

Now that I practice Original Shaolin Zhan Zhuang, I do not make it a time contest anymore. I just practice it, like I eat or smile or go to work, because:

1. I know and experience the benefits that Zhan Zhuang is bringing (tremendous internal force, mental clarity, peace of mind, spiritual joy, strong rooting yet agile footwork, fast kicking, increased confidence in daily life...)

2. I enjoy my practice.

A few months ago, just for fun, I once used a clock and watched the time of my Golden Bridge. To my own surprise, I reached a 12 minutes session.

I also noticed that my breathing has slow down (5 breaths per minute).

Some may experience more difficulty practicing Golden Bridge than One Finger Shooting Zen. I think that this difficulty lies in a wandering of the Shen; in One Finger Shooitng Zen, we gently focus on our dynamic movements (helping our mind to be tamed), while in Golden Bridge our Shen has nothing 'to play with'. So the slightest tension is amplified.

In such a case, just smile from the heart like Craig (hi Craig ) has mentionned. When a tension occurs, just let it go.

Before the practice, remembering that we will succeed in our training, as well as remembering the benefits we are going to reap, is also helpful.

Well, just my own experience.

Happy and consistent practice to all,

Maxime

[JamesAnderson]

'No pain, no gain' might be a matter of semantics.

I agree with Kevin (altough sometimes there is good pain). 'No pain, no gain' in Shaolin should only reflect that there is no progress without hard (meaning consistent) practice and effort. If you prefer lying down on your couch rather than practicing, then no good result will come from this. Logical. But the practice, whilst being consistent and backed up with some effort, should be enjoyable.

Yes sorry Kevin as Maxime has rightly pointed out I think you maybe took me too literally. I understand that with horse stance training there is natural discomfort as your muscles become accustomed to the stance. I try and not exert myself to the point of agony, as I realise this is not doing me any good.

By no pain, no gain, I was more referring to the constant practice involved as opposed to actually experiencing real pain in order to learn the stance.

[Akemi]

Greetings everyone,

I have just completed the Internal Force course with Sigung. He emphasized the following in zhan zhuang:

Make sure the form is correct

This might be difficult to do if you do not have a Sifu to correct you. I understand it can be quite dangerous to practice a horse stance for a long period of time while a) tense and b)not knowing if alignment is correct.

Make sure you are in a Chi Kung state of mind

We should be focused and relaxed, with our minds at Dan Tien while enjoying our stances.

Make sure you are relaxed, relaxed, relaxed!

I found that initially I was fine. Then as Sigung helped my alignment I felt an immediate surge of energy and it concentrated in my chest, manifesting as frustration. I relaxed my mind, and then slowly scanned for physical tension. I was fine. Then my legs started to burn, and I relaxed a teensy bit more. It felt like a millimeter of relaxation, but that millimeter freed my emotions, I smiled from the heart and stayed in the stance for about 2 more minutes.

I think Maxime and Kevin Sisooks had wonderful explanations. Thank you!

Happy practicing,

[Luo Lang]

Originally posted by Luo Lang
Originally posted by George:
"The Chi follows the Shen - if your Shen is bad, your Chi will be bad also."

Well, that's a true secret. But never foget, that if form is not correct Chi can not flow, if Chi's not flowing Shen gets also disturbed.
Correct form will lead into harmonious Chiflow, which will lead into a calm Shen.
Keeping a clear Shen and Chi will keep flowing naturally, if Chi is flowing naturally form will naturally be correct.

Another quote to this progression would be:
From formless to form, from form to formless
Tha's the short explanation

I am very happy that Vanessa pointed this out. Never forget to progress gradually and don't forget the form.

Roland

[Luo Lang]

Yes sorry Kevin as Maxime has rightly pointed out I think you maybe took me too literally. I understand that with horse stance training there is natural discomfort as your muscles become accustomed to the stance

This is when jing is developed into a higher stange. Every muscle cell is connected with meridians. Every meridian is connected to shen.

A natural discomfort may arise when old strengh is leaving. Or when you are not relaxed.

To quote Taisiheng Kai:

"Never forget that one part of shen is Yi."

I remember Sifus explanation about the three hearts:
Heart of convidence
Heart of determination
Heart of persistance

To quote Sifu:"we are not a opium smoking class, we are practicing genuine Kung Fu"

[subclock]

Hi James,

Yes sorry Kevin as Maxime has rightly pointed out I think you maybe took me too literally. I understand that with horse stance training there is natural discomfort as your muscles become accustomed to the stance. I try and not exert myself to the point of agony, as I realise this is not doing me any good.

By no pain, no gain, I was more referring to the constant practice involved as opposed to actually experiencing real pain in order to learn the stance.

I understand what you are saying now . I agree 100%. Generally speaking, I would call the discomfort experienced more of a dynamic tension than pain. Anyways, it is just semantics.

I know a lot of Kung Fu people who really do believe no pain no gain in the literal sense. I didn't want anyone to think Wahnam also has this view.

Good Luck.

Best Wishes,
Kevin

[Akemi]

To quote Sifu:"we are not a opium smoking class, we are practicing genuine Kung Fu"

Yes...We heard this quite a few times last night.