A Discussion on Yielding

[Antonius]

Dear Sifu Stier,

Thank you for that picture of Sifu Frank Allen. It's been years since I've seen him, but I have fond memories of his "hidden" school in Alphabet City in New York.

Dear Tu Le,

I'm not sure what you mean by a sweep kick. Generally speaking, if someone tries to attack my front leg, I just remove it. I can do that in a number of ways. My favorite is the "Cat Step" which can be seen as a continuation of the False Leg Stance.

Best,

[yeniseri]

baqua expressed posture

Esteemed Stier Sifu's posture appears to be baqua influenced if not a baquazhang posture.
The fotos only appear to express the obvious where, as one is younger (as in Stier Sifu's case) the transitional external posture shows the degree of fitness and agility. Frank Allen's posture reflects his age and agility for the decade of life that he is.
The posture(s) may also indicate (I do not know for sure) the distinction between actual usage and foto shoot cover display.
All of the fotos are very well done without exception!

[Sifu Stier]

Speak for yourself...not for me!

Dear Yeniseri:

I have maintained essentially the same physical appearance, level of fitness, and degree of strength, flexibility, agility, etc., for more than 30 years time to date, and have the photographs to prove it. The only thing to have substantially changed during these years is my internal development and overall skill level.

Thanks to the various Asian practices I have engaged in since a pre-teen age, my experience of 'aging' has not been the same as it is for most people. Please assume me to be the exception rather than the rule in this regard. I am still regularly mistaken for a college student at age 57!

So speak for yourself...not for me!

Regards ~

Sifu Stier

[Tu Le]

Dear Antonius Siheng,

My mistake. When I meant sweep kick, I meant a low round house kick aims at the foot or ankle delivered from a starting position where you have your supporting leg bent, supporting leg's heel raised from the floor, whole body weight on ball of the foot of the supporting leg (you can use your hands to support your weight), and kicking leg extended behind you and can be lightly touching the ground.

Rephrasing: How would you use the pattern "Low Stance Single Whip" to defend against a low roundhouse kick or a reverse roundhouse sweeping your ankle or foot?

Here us a motion picture of a martial artist performing a low reverse roundhouse kick:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick

Scroll down.

Thanks.

PS: I'm beginning to think that all this doubting and intellectualizing is giving me mental blockages (headaches), and could hinder my progress in chi kung (I just read the "Following Instructions" thread and I learned a lot from Tom L's mistakes). Gotta remember what Sifu said:

"Let Go"

[Tu Le]

Sorry I know you directed your question at Anthony Sihing . I hope you don't mind if I also reply to you here . I find that often when I try to answer other people's questions, I learn a lot myself .

Kevin,

No I don't mind at all. Its good to hear from everyone's experiences especially those with vast experience. I'm probably the most junior student here on this forum.

Sifu Stier,

Thanks for your reply, and welcome back. It would be nice to have at least one knowledgeable Grandmaster of a different martial arts background on this forum.

barrys,

Thanks for your reply.

[yeniseri]

not again

Esteemed Stier Sifu,

I do not know from whence you perceived what was stated. I lauded everyone without exception!

anyway let us give praise!
ahmen

[Jeffrey Segal]

Dear Sifu Stier,

Welcome back! It hardly feels like you left at all

I was just wondering whether the photo you've posted is recent.

Also, you might be interested to know that in Wahnam Taijiquan form practice we arrive at Low Stance Single Whip from a number of patterns (including Golden Cockerel Stands Magnificently). This is also the case in our combat sequences. Of course in sparing, the pattern emerges as needed.

Best regards,

[Sifu Stier]

A Matter of Perspective!

Dear Yeniseri:

Please don't misinterpret my direct manner of communication. I am not angry or upset with you in any way, and I apologize if my post gave you that impression. I merely took exception to your stated assumption that "the degree of fitness and agility" is dependent on chronological age for everyone. I didn't like the implication that I may have had good looking postures as a younger man, but probably don't perform as well anymore due to the age and agility of the decade of life that I am now in...as you said of Sifu Allen.

Although this is undoubtedly true for the majority of untrained, non-athletic individuals of advancing years, it is not true for those who begin practicing internal arts such as nei-chia and yoga at a young age, and who continue to practice such methods daily as they grow older. I am such an individual, and as such I am quite capable of performing that posture as well or better today as when that photo was taken.

Don't forget that as you think and believe...so shall it be for you. I just wanted to clearly state that I personally don't believe that athletic performance has to deteriorate with age in the internal arts. Think "I'm getting better with age and experience to guide the way."

Warm regards !

Sifu Stier

[joko]

Hello Tu Le:

Also, is it possible to defend against all kicks using this pattern?
..............
I only have Sifu's book 'Art of Shaolin Kung Fu' 'Complete Book of Shaolin' and 'Complete Book of Tai Chi Chuan'.

If you have the 'Complete Book of Taichichuan', then see Chapter 9, it explains how to use Low Stance Single Whip against all kicks. Please have a look at Figure 9.4e and its explanation.

You may also visit http://shaolin.org/review/striking03.html for further explanation.

[yeniseri]

discernment

Esteemed Sifu Stier,

We are all subject to the laws of the universe and the internal MA are no different. IMA (I wonder who made up that word anyway, anyway) are not an exception to the association regarding the known fact that as we age, certain physiological and anatomical functions will invariably be affected. Of course, some more than others.
One of my last teachers, Lu Hungping a baqua/xing-i exponent whom I met in his 80's was an excellent teacher and example of fitness regarding explanation and form expression. It was obvious that he did not have the strength and agility of a younger man but he was superb in knowledge and knew what he was doing. That in itself was a great teaching!

I stated "Frank Allen's posture reflects his age and agility for the decade of life that he is. I know nothing about Allen Sifu's performance (as you claimed to have said I stated)and did not comment as such.
I do not stoop to such depths unless I am attempting to do "lowered single whip/dragon on ground" but my fat belly usually helps me to fall on my face. A gravity joke so please do not see otherwise. It is my face only!

with grace
yahman

[Marcus]

Firstly I would like to welcome Sifu Stier back, I obviously mis-understood his post in the Shen Men Tao thread

Apologies for taking so long to continue with the Kicking theme, so without further ado, let me continue:

In an earlier post Zhang Wuji pointed out that what we regarded as “yielding” in English was known in Chinese as “hua”, which would be better translated as “neutralizing”. “Neutralizing” is also the term my sifu, Sifu Wong, often uses instead of “yielding”.

I would like to reiterate the important point that “yielding” or “neutralizing” is not an isolated process; it is a part of a continuous process that includes deflecting and countering. Yielding alone is incomplete; it would be a case of “ying without yang”, which would be contradictory to fundamental Tai Chi Chuan philosophy.

Another important point is that while the continuous process of yielding in Tai Chi Chuan is often implemented with the arms of the practitioner and of the opponent in contact, especially in the practice of “Pushing Hands”, it can also be implemented when their arms are not in contact. This is especially so when it is used against kicks.

Suppose you are now engaged in combat with your opponent, regardless of whether your arms are in contact with his. Seizing an opportunity, he executes a kick. It can be a side-kick, high kick, low kick, roundhouse kick, reverse-roundhouse kick, thrust kick, snap kick or any kick. Just shift your body backward into a low stance. This is the yielding or neutralizing part.

As his kick is spent, shift your body forward, deflect his kick, and also his hand if needed, and strike him with a “single whip”. This is the deflecting-cum-countering part. The yielding, deflecting and countering should be in one continuous process. Hence, this pattern is “Low Stance Single Whip” which indicates one smooth movement, and not “Low Stance” and “Single Whip” which indicate two separate movements, nor just “Low Stance” which would be just yielding without deflecting and countering.
Notice that you do not need to move away from your position (though you need to adjust your feet for the reverse Bow-Arrow Stance and the forward Bow-Arrow Stance). The strong point of this pattern is body-movement which gives you tactical speed, enabling you to strike your opponent often before he could recover his leg from the kick. However, if you opponent moves back, you would have to glide forward to strike him.

I will provide a picture sequence tomorrow to illustrate.

Until then I wish you well with your practice

Marcus

Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

[joko]

Dear Sihing,

Just shift your body backward into a low stance. This is the yielding or neutralizing part.

'Striking Tiger Poise' can be used also to neutralize a kick instead of 'Low stance Single Whip'.
I wonder what are the subtle differences between the two patterns.

Joko

[yeniseri]

use what is useful and adapt, I think

Rollback (lu) is a good response without extreme body movement as in "lowered single whip" along with stepping according to the benefit accorded by such. (Stepping left, right or even turning body).
Yielding alone is transitory, like any other technique so as someone else stated, it is used with other techniques as opposed to 'force on force' mindset.

One hand clapping (use) does not solve yielding because the other hand may be used to control elbow and assess foot peng, lu, ji and so on. Peng, lu, ji, an etc also works with foot/leg so we have waist/hip, leg and hand and elbow all working at the same time. I use this scenario because regardless of how skilled someone an IMA person say he is, someone will (99.999% certain) invariably grab, IMA or no IMA.

Neutralizing a kick (making it useless) by grabbing leg and facing in direction of kick, lift and let go like a hot potatoe?
I am not Dan Quail but I have to run from Dick Chaney (the man with the guns)!

[Jeffrey Segal]

Whips and Tigers

Dear Joko,

I've started a new thread on Low Stance Single Whip and Striking Tiger Poise here

See you there!

Best regards,

[Marcus]

Joko,

I enjoyed reading you last post very much, you obviously learnt a lot on your recent Tai Chi Chuan Intensive with Sifu. I remember Sifu saying that these days he thinks a better response to kicks than "Low Stance Single Whip" is "Striking Tiger Poise" followed up by "Fierce Dragon Across Stream". As you are a Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan player I would invite you to comment on

"what are the subtle differences between the two patterns."

. On Jeffrey's thread

Pictures coming very soon!

Kind regards

Marcus

Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha