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  • Erle Montaigue's association

    Dear members,

    I live in the middle of nowhere (Rutland) , and find it difficult to find either a shaolin kung fu school or a tai chi chuan school to study at. I hope to return to London as a student in September 2005, whereupon this dilemma will cease to exist. For the meantime, Erle Montaigue's association (World Taiji Boxing Association) have yang style TCC classes relatively close to me.

    Anyone know of their organisation?
    Is it worth studying with them for 10 months, then pursuing TCC in London?
    Is it wise to study TCC and Shaolin KF simultaneously? (this question is off the topic, but an answer would be greatly appreciated)
    Is the hokey-cokey really what it's all about?

    Best,

    Paul

  • #2
    Regarding the hokey-cokey it is actually 4/5 of what it is all about. Another 1/10 is dark matter, otherwise known as Darryl's humour. The rest resides in a small cat in Neasden.

    If I remember correctly Grandmaster Erle Montaigue posted a number of times on this forum with the user name of Erle. If you look on the members list and go to his profile you will be able to see all his posts and make some judgements yourself.

    The advice I got when I first came on the forum was that Chi Kung and TCC compliment one another well ( are actually both Chi Kung). My experience has borne that out so far.

    I started doing Tai Chi with an instructor about 4 months before I went on my first course with Sifu. My instructor also taught me a form of chi kung as well. I found just the act of learning to relax helped a lot when I later came to practice Shaolin Cosmos Chi Kung.

    Best,

    Barry
    Profile at Capio Nightingale Hospital London Click here
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    • #3
      It is always difficult to pass judgement on any other school or organisation without having personally been there and trained. Grand Master Erle Montaigue did indeed post here on a number of occasions and it is a shame that he no longer posts here. There were quite a lot of things Grand Master Montaigue and Shaolin Wahnam Instructors disagreed upon - and that's fine.

      Is it worth studying with them for 10 months, then pursuing TCC in London?
      Define your aims and objectives and then you will quite quickly be able to answer this for yourself. For example, if your aim is to gain some basic experience of Taijiquan form then you may find the classes serve your purpose. However, if you want to learn as you would from a Wahnam Taijiquan instructor then you will not get what you are looking for.

      Is it wise to study TCC and Shaolin KF simultaneously?
      You can. But if you want to get the best benefits it is better (at least initially) to choose one Art and stick to it for a while before moving or adding a second (quality instead of quantity).

      Is the hokey-cokey really what it's all about?
      But of course

      Andrew
      Sifu Andrew Barnett
      Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

      Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
      Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
      Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

      Chi Kung Courses: May 2019 in Landquart CH
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      • #4
        On Erle Montaigue

        I can only comment on Erle Montaigue's Taijiquan (pardon me if I absolutely refuse to use the abbreviation TCC. It affronts my sensitivities regarding a phonetical system devised by Westerners who cannot pronounce Mandarin words properly but yet dare to come up with a pronunciation standard )

        Erle Montaigue is a genuine Taijiquan master. He is extremely controversial but I have no doubts about his Taijiquan. His training methods seem to be somewhat different from the traditional Chinese way but they are in essence most effective. I won't go into detail unless requested.

        I have purchased some of his videos and his teachings on the video set off many light bulbs in my head, and took both my practice and my academic knowledge to a much higher level (which is still very low, but relative to when I first begun...). Today, when I read the Classics, they make much more sense. Odd that my understanding of Chinese classics was increased through a non-Chinese source - but that is the beauty of sharing the arts with the whole world. We cross-pollinate.

        I have been verifying Mr Montaigue's principles through my practice and with my own instructor whose lineage is from Yang Shaohou. Everything checks out. The big problem I have with Mr Erle is that no one can trace his lineage. He says his teacher is one Chang Yiu Chun. I both have and have access to a huge resource centre of Taijiquan here in Taiwan and in Singapore/Hong Kong, and I assure you that my research has turned up nothing on this figure. He explains that Chang was an illegal immigrant in Australia with a false name and that Erle himself could not speak Chinese so he may have gotten the name wrong. My guess is that Erle had promised not to reveal his teacher's real name (just like Sun Wukong in "Journey to the West").

        But true to our Shaolin principles, I go for results. And as far as Taijiquan masters go, Erle is one of the best available ones (there may be much better masters but they won't be willng to teach freely, like Erle or Shifu).

        "Persevere in correct practice"
        百德以孝为先
        Persevere in correct practice

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        • #5
          Zhang, have you met Erle?
          Sifu Anthony Korahais
          www.FlowingZen.com
          (Click here to learn more about me.)

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          • #6
            Met him, no but we have spoken and corresponded for a while now. So, while I cannot consider him my teacher, I can say I know him. I am not promoting his association or anything, but since someone asked, I thought I would give my 2 cents worth about what I know.
            百德以孝为先
            Persevere in correct practice

            Comment


            • #7
              sometimes it takes one to know one

              Wuji my friend,

              I think I'm going to have to wait until we meet before I post responses to any more of your posts

              Perhaps you are simply too modest when you refer to yourself as a beginner. In my opinion it takes quite a high level of attainment to be able to proclaim that someone is a genuine Taijiquan master, especially if you haven't even met him.

              Maybe it's just the way you write or the way I interpret your English.

              Anyway, I'm really looking forward to meeting you and training with you in December. I'm also hoping that my Mandarin is good enough that we can at least exchange a few words in your mother tongue.

              Enjoy the Intensive Shaolinquan course! (it's fantastic)
              Jeffrey Segal

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jeffrey Segal
                Perhaps you are simply too modest when you refer to yourself as a beginner. In my opinion it takes quite a high level of attainment to be able to proclaim that someone is a genuine Taijiquan master, especially if you haven't even met him. Maybe it's just the way you write or the way I interpret your English.
                Oh, I am definitely a beginner. How do I know that? Because I cannot fight using Taijiquan (at least I don't think so) although I have derived health benefits from it (or was it thanks to Shaolin qigong?)

                Perhaps I was being hasty when I proclaimed Erle a master, but then again, it is my opinion. What I have seen is the way he does his form, which is the way my instructor and his own master do it. I have also seen Taiji dancers perform and the difference is truly obvious. I look at it this way - I still know very little about qigong, but I have no hesitation in calling Shifu a qigong master. The difference is that I have met Shifu and learnt under him.

                Maybe I should just rephrase what I said to this: If I had an opportunity to learn from Erle, I certainly would because I regard him as a Taijiquan master. There, I think that is as accurate and honest as I can get.

                [/QUOTE]Anyway, I'm really looking forward to meeting you and training with you in December. I'm also hoping that my Mandarin is good enough that we can at least exchange a few words in your mother tongue.[/QUOTE]

                Me too. Because I would be attending the all 3 Review course without having attended the intensive Taijiquan course, I really need your help. I hardly think I am qualified to "train" with you, but rather learn from you? My quid pro quo would be to tell you all the posture names in Chinese
                百德以孝为先
                Persevere in correct practice

                Comment


                • #9
                  I can say I know him.
                  Can you know someone you've never met?
                  Sifu Anthony Korahais
                  www.FlowingZen.com
                  (Click here to learn more about me.)

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                  • #10
                    WTBA (Erle Montaigue)

                    Hi Paul,

                    I trained for about 6 months in Cardiff with a WTBA instructor,until the class was stopped. I really enjoyed it. It was more than a little manic but always varied and great fun. Leigh the instructor was a beautiful martial artist, slim but explosive. I cannot comment on whether it "traditional" though I doubt it!

                    I also trained for a few months in Swansea with another WTBA instructor, but did not like the training. It was more like a ballet class then a martial arts class.

                    I would suggest going to a few sessions, and if you like it continuing. There are instructors all over the country, so you should be able to continue.

                    There are monthly workshops with Erle in Swansea. I have trained with Erle twice, and am very impressed. He's laid back and very informal - he says don't call me master, call me Erle. Details of workshops below.
                    http://www.taijiworld.com/Workshops/mini2001.htm#1

                    A little info about his lineage below
                    www.kunzhi.net/wtba-erle.html

                    Best wishes,

                    Phil
                    Last edited by PhilH; 30 October 2004, 01:47 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Erle Montaigue RIP !

                      Hello everyone,

                      Just two hours ago I was enjoying reading a book on Bagua written by grandmaster Erle Montaigue, when I accidentally knew of his loss on Wednesday, January 26, 2011.

                      I am really saddned for his departure. I have been following him on youtube for many years and benefited from his work and wealth of knowledge. He was a wonderful human being and a dedicated martial artist.

                      May his soul have a safe journey,

                      With love and respect,
                      Mahmood
                      The two hallmarks of Shaolin teachings: Wisdom and Compassion

                      Sifu Mahmood Ahmed

                      www.shaolin.org

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                      • #12
                        Though I have never him, we did exchange emails and he was an honourable in thought, word and deed. Through my limited accomplishement in yangshenggong (qigong) practice and tiny exposure to tai chi, Mr Erle exhibited thoughtful ideas, great humility and a wonderful Aussie exuberance.
                        For that, he was as accomplished as anyone in this regard!

                        He is on a great journey! By my limited contact, I saw a great human being in that portal of time. He will be missed!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Some of Sifu Montaigue's youtube videos actually are what got me started in wanting to train in the internal arts.

                          I think he definitely had a positive effect on many lives.
                          Shaolin Wahnam USA

                          "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

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                          • #14
                            I have just read the first post in this thread, and was shocked to hear of Erle's death. I trained with Leigh Evans, one of Erle's senior students, in Cardiff (Wales) several years ago. We went on a workshop led by Erle when I was training. He had a great presence and skill, and it was a pleasure to be taught by him.

                            Ironically, some 10 years ago, Leigh moved to Australia, so I stopped training with him, and Erle moved to Wales. I trained with his son Eli, who now runs the WTBA, for a short time in Cardiff, but the classes stopped. I
                            did another workshop with Erle in Swansea which I enjoyed.

                            Erle was a great martial artist and teacher, and very keen to educate as many people as possible.

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