Eagle Claw vs. Tiger Claw

[Jimbeaux]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

How can one compare/contrast Eagle Claw and Tiger Claw? I'm sure it's obvious to say that one is not "better" than the other, it just depends on one's mastery.

But as they are both great for chin-na, how do they differ? In the animal spirit? Also, we don't have 50 sequences for Tiger, do we? (Not that it's the number that counts.)

Also, I'd be interested to know if we have a pure Tiger set in addition to Dragon-Tiger and Tiger-Crane?

All this recent interest in Eagle Claw has sparked my curiosity.

Thanks for any information you may have, or any tips where I could find the answers to these questions.

With our Shaolin salute,
Jim

[Mark Blohm]

Hi Jimbeaux,

But as they are both great for chin-na, how do they differ?

I believe that Tiger Claw can be used for attacking whereas Eagle Claw is more like controlling in order to strike or something else. Like when an Eagle goes fishing, it dives in and grabs the fish. But the fight is not finished at the talon grab. It just hurts a lot

Mark

[Mark Blohm]

Also, I'd be interested to know if we have a pure Tiger set in addition to Dragon-Tiger and Tiger-Crane?

In the latest of ongoing Question and Answer series on Sifu's website, Sifu says

In our school, for example, which is Hoong Ka though we call it Shaolin, our first combat application set, “Black Tiger Steals Heart” is basically a Tiger set. In our second combat application set, “Fierce Tiger Speeds through Valley”, we have Tigers and Dragons. Our third combat application set, “Happy Bird Hops up Branch” is basically a Crane set.

Mark

[Jamie Robson]

Dear Jim,

Typically, Tiger Claw is used alone, without support.
For example, Fierce Tiger Descends Mountain or White Tiger Presents Claw.

Typically, Eagle Claw is used in conjunction with another technique.
For example, Draw Lift & Strike or Grasp Wrist & Kick.

However, as always, there is no fixed way, to use Tiger Claw and Eagle Claw.

Jamie

[Hendrik]

Hello Jimbeaux,

I think I've heard that Eagle Claw is more mechanic as opposed to Tiger Claw where you would use more internal force. I know for sure that most of our Tiger Claw exercises use a lot of internal force, but I don't exactly know if you would consider Eagle Claw force training as only being "hard" force training. However, there are also exercises in Tiger Claw like press-ups on your fingertips or holding jars with your fingers during stance training which would be classified as "hard" or partly "hard" force training exercises.

You also said you believed that Eagle Claw is more for holding and gripping and that Tiger Claw is more for attacking. I know that you can use Tiger Claw as an attack, but you can also use it for holding and grabing on to your opponent. This makes sense because the force training exercises of Tiger Claw make your fingers hard and strong for powerful attacks, but you also develop a strong gripping power which you can use for Chin-Na and felling techniques.

As for your guestion about a pure Tiger Set, I don't think that we have a 'pure' Tiger Set, but as Mark said, the Black Tiger Steals Heart Set is a Tiger Set at its base. However, as you might have noticed yourself already, all our Shaolin Wahnam Sets have a wide array of different patterns and even the Dragon Form Set doesn't exclusively consist out of Dragon Technigues and Patterns.
Most of our Shaolin Wahnam Shaolin Kung Fu Sets are created according to a certain theme, and not according to one single kind of technique or animal. For example, in "Fierce Tiger descends Mountain" you will find that all sequences are made for pressing an opponent during sparring and that there are also many techniques like Barr The Big Boss that can break an opponents pressing momentum.

Well, I hope I helped you out with your Tiger Claw side of the question, but unfortunately I don't know too much about Eagle Claw. You will have to find somebody else to explain that part of the question to you

All The Best
Hendrik

[Jimbeaux]

Thank you

I just wanted to say thank you to all of you for your responses.

Jim

[Jimbeaux]

I just wanted to add a link to something else interesting having to do with Si Sook Hendrik's post:

I think I've heard that Eagle Claw is more mechanic as opposed to Tiger Claw where you would use more internal force. I know for sure that most of our Tiger Claw exercises use a lot of internal force...

Si Sook Adam Kryder posted an interesting experience he had with Sigung's tiger claw in terms of internal force. It's on p 16 of the "Eagle Claw Master" thread.

http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=82072#post82072

On second thought, however, I may be too quick in assuming it's tiger claw, which is refered to in Adam's post. It doesn't actually say so in the post.

It's very interesting nonetheless!

Jim

[Chiahua]

Typically, Tiger Claw is used alone, without support.
For example, Fierce Tiger Descends Mountain or White Tiger Presents Claw.

Maybe it's because I've watched a few too many kung fu movies, but I for some reason thought one of the differences is in the hand form itself.
The answers here are illuminating!

-Chia-Hua

[Hendrik]

Maybe it's because I've watched a few too many kung fu movies, but I for some reason thought one of the differences is in the hand form itself.


-Chia-Hua

That is absolutely right ofcourse. It seems that through all our "advanced talk" about tiger claw and eagle claw we forgot to mention that probably one of the most obvious, however not that important, distinctions between the two claws is the the fact that they look different. What I know is that Tiger Claw is wider and more open, and Eagle Claw is tighter and rather closed. But that is only what the form loks like and therefor it's not quite that important. If you simply see the hand form of an Eagle Claw you wouldn't necessarily know that, or how , it's used for gripping; the same goes for the Tiger Claw. That's why the technique and the force training part of Eagle and Tiger Claw are more important than just the handform.
And furthermore, I've sometimes seen Tiger Claws that looked like Eagle Claws and vice versa. So looks can be deceiving, especially in cheap Kung Fu Movies

Hendrik