Can a disciple surpass his sifu?

[wifiabc]

Do you think it is possible for a disciple to surpass his sifu ? If not, then the art can only decline.

[beggarsu]

Greetings wifiabc ,

Yes I believe a student can become even better than their teacher. There are a few examples of this I can think of. Master Sat Chuen Hon mentions in his book, "Taoist Qigong For Health And Vitality", how one of his students was his Qigong teacher in a past life. In that situation, Master Sat Chuen Hon surpassed his previous teacher to where he was now their teacher. Also, in Record Of Immortal Master Huang and Lad Qu (which is in the book "The Taoist Experience" I recently added to the book reviews section), Qu Baiting progressed much faster in spiritual cultivation than his teacher. Although not in terms of gong but rather teaching ability, Sifu Wong describes how his teaching methods are far better than his Master's, and how some of his students he trains to be teachers improve their teaching ability even more than his.

Happy wishes ,
Aaron

[beggarsu]

Hello again,

Although many more examples came to mind, one I thought of more relevant to kung fu would be Zhang Sanfeng. Sifu Wong mentions that it was said at the time that he was the only one at the temple to master dim mak. If he were the only one, then obviously there wasn't someone else who had mastered the whole art to have learned it from, although probably monks who had experience in some areas from which he perhaps could have pieced together. This and other things said about Zhang Sanfeng lead me to believe he had surpassed his teachers at the Shaolin Temple even in terms of gong like force and skill.

Aaron

[Ronan]

Sifu once mentioned to us that it is every great teachers sincere wish to have his students surpass him. That would be a great accomplishment for any teacher.

Best wishes

Ronan

[HugoDarien]

Can a disciple surpass his sifu?

Sifu Ronan Sexton, that is good to know THANKS

[Antonius]

I personally believe that someone in Shaolin Wahnam will eventually surpass Sifu, although perhaps not during his lifetime. I think it is inevitable because Sifu is such a good teacher, so generous with his knowledge, and because these arts are so powerful.

Not just anyone can become like Sifu, just as not anyone can become an olympic athlete. Talent is a factor, as is hard work, and karma. However, I think that it is highly likely that one of Sifu's students (or grandstudents) will have everything it takes to surpass him. I also think it is very possible that several people will surpass him, not just one.

As for me, I'll be happy to reach 50% of my teacher's level.

[Ronan]

This is a good sign that our arts are back on the up and instead of becoming more diluted with each generation, they are becoming more refined as we strive towards past greatness.

[Zhang Wuji]

I have always felt that it was somehow destined that Sifu would be the one to bring the Shaolin arts to the world. He is the confluence of East and West, and is one of the few to transmit the secret Shaolin arts to the world, while still being resident in the East. Much has been said about Sifu's command of English (and I believe, now Spanish as well). But being literate in English is one thing, having the open-mindedness of a Westerner is another.

Western students may not appreciate the rare opportunity they have. The current leader of my Yang Taijiquan school will never pass on the top secrets to Westerners. Morihei Ueishiba left strict instructions not to teach the highest levels of his art, including dim mak, to non-Japanese.

Among the hundreds, maybe thousands, of genuine and traditional Shaolin masters, how many would have the ability to present everything so coherently and lucidly in English? These days, of course, there are many Western masters who can explain the Taoist arts in English but I have yet to come across a Shaolin master with Sifu's cosmopolitan approach.

If the arts are just passed down to the Chinese, the gene pool though huge is nothing like the gene pool of the whole world. If you teach deserving students from all corners of the globe, the chances of a student surpassing you is far higher than teaching those from one region.

[Kaijet]

surpass?

Hello all,

It is everytime possible to surpass your Sifu but in reality very rare.

If you look arround and you compare the wisdom and skill of a GM with the knowledge of the first and second generation after him most of the time it is allready something or even many lost.

[Claire]

I think as Ronan Sipak pointed out about SiGung's teaching, it is important that a teacher should be surpassed by his/her own student. It is indeed the sign of a good teacher on many levels.

IMHO, in studying any art, it is never just about the teacher themselves or the student, it is about the cultivation and development of the art and (in the case of internal arts) about evolving the relationship between the human and the divine/universe for everyone's benefit. If a teacher does not eventually have a student (or grandstudent or further as said by Anthony Sipak) who does not surpass him then the purpose may have been lost along the way.

For me, it is indeed a glorious sign that SiGung deeply wishes to be one day surpassed.

We are indeed so very very lucky to be studying an art such as this and to have such a venerable Grand Master with us

Claire
x

[Jeffrey Segal]

Hi Everybody,

I agree with Kai.

Looking at it from another angle, I don't think we have any idea of what Sifu's level really is. Even if we just consider what we do know about Sifu (and I'm reminded of the proverbial iceberg as I write this), we are talking about immense achievements on many levels in many disciplines.

Keeping it real,

[Ronan]

Hey Jeffery, I remember you saying that to me a few years ago, at a dinner in London if my exccelent memory serves me correct!). I agree that we don't know what levels in how many diciplines Sifu has achieved, but when speaking specifically eg. Kungfu, Qigong etc Sifu has stated many times that if we train what he has taught us, as he has taught us then we will indeed surpass him in Kungfu or Qigong, (but maybe not in teaching skills!) I find it hard not to believe Sifu these days when he tells me things. Everything he has said so far has been spot on

[Jeffrey Segal]

Hey Ronan,

I remember that meal too

See you in SP!

[Jordan]

A pioneer of no equal

It we are talking specifics, then yes, although very difficult, someone may indeed surpass Sifu.

However, I see Sifu as a pioneer. Not just a great teacher, or a great master of the arts (who, as others already mentioned, is beyond our comprehension). Sifu has a rare treasure, a rare gift of sharing this treasure in an unbelievably effective way and an incredible drive to teach deserving students all over the world. From the east to the west, no matter the race or religion (or lack of), Sifu is sharing his joy and happiness, and in this way I can see no one coming close.

[Guest]

Sifu has stated many times that if we train what he has taught us, as he has taught us then we will indeed surpass him in Kungfu or Qigong, (but maybe not in teaching skills!) I find it hard not to believe Sifu these days when he tells me things. Everything he has said so far has been spot on

Totally agree with you Ronan, reading this again makes me want to train hard and afford the Shaolin arts the justice they deserve. Even though I have a LONG way to go!