Let's talk Xingyiquan

[Tim]

Many of he Shaolin Wahnam practitioners I have met over the years often appear to be more interested in experiencing health and happiness than they are about fighting. This could give the impression that perhaps they don't know how to fight. Interestingly I have found that many of them can actually fight well, plus they are fulfilling their aim in experiencing health and happiness.

The reason I mention this is because over the last few years I have begun to fully appreciate the additional life skills that practicing high level kung fu can bring, such as;
Remaining calm whilst under threat
The ability to keep a clear mind during confrontation
Being able to see the answer clearly and easily whilst around you there is turmoil
To be happy inside and not just on the face of things
To have a game plan
To use strategy and not just go in blindly
To be confident, but not arrogant
To be kind and not cruel
To have understanding to get the job done
To be able to handle a myriad of things

So when we consider the strengths or differences between Xingyiquan and Taijiquan both can offer the potential for above. The difference is in the method or strategy as Matt F has kindly pointed out. I think one of the profound aspects of Xingyiquan is that it works in harmony of the nature of life and challenges, and as such can be applied to so many aspects of life and combat. I am no expert in the 5 elemental processes and I am sure our TCM sisters and brothers will be able to add to this most fascinating aspect of the art.

It is not often that we have an opportunity to learn both kung fu and the 5 elemental processes in one course. So in many respects this could be an excellent kung fu course to choose for those that are more often interested in the Chi Kung aspect of training.

[Anton S.]

Dear brothers,

Recently I was partially re-reading this book
and have found some useful information particularly on the history and the lineages of Xing Yi.

you can read most of it here: it starts on page 15.

The course promises to be very amazing and very special as well!

Best Regards, Anton

[Claudien S]

Dear Brother,

Wow, some really interesting posts. Thank you all for your contribution

I have to admit that my hands are itching to post Sifu's answers to the questions. So here goes:

1. What kind of benefits does a practitioner of Hsing Yi derive on a physical, emotional, mental and spiritual level and how would these manifest in everyday life? Would these differ from the benefits one gets from practicing Tai Chi Chuan? For example – it seems that Hsing Yi uses the principle of not moving back in combat whilst in Tai Chi Chuan this might not be the case. How would this transfer to everyday life?

Xingyiuan, or Hsing Yi Kungfu, is hard and forceful. Physically it will make a practitioner strong, emotionally firm, mentally determined, and spiritually steadfast. These are admirable qualities in any person. A person who lacks resolve, who gives up easily in everyday life, will benefit much by practicing Xingyiquan.

On the other hand, Tai Chi Chuan is soft and flowing. Physically it will make a practitioner gentle, emotionally kind, mentally flexible, and spiritually agile. These are admirable qualities too. A person who is harsh and rough will benefit much be practicing Taijiquan.

A special feature of Xingyiquan is to move forward in attack. There is little or no retreat. There are also no obvious defence patterns! And the patterns are simple-looking. Does this mean that there is only attack and no defence in Xingyiquan? No, the defence is incorporated in the attack. Herein lies its profundity in simplicity.

This philosophy and practice is very useful when you are a leaders in your business or profession if transferred successfully into everyday life. You lead your company or team to victory, while at the same time taking care of your own security. But it demands great skills to do this well, otherwise it can easily back-fire.

But in situations where you have to negotiate with equals or superiors, this Xingyiquan approach would not be suitable. It would be too bossy. The Taijiquan approach will be suitable.

The philosophy and practice of Taijiquan is just the reverse. First you yield to an opponent’s attack, then you use his momentum to turn him round and defeat him. Your opponent may be stronger, but you can still defeat him.

In today’s world the Taijiquan approach is often more effective. It is the diplomatic approach, in contrast to the military approach of Xinyiquan. But in situations where people are indecisive the bulldozing approach of Xingyiquan may work better.

I will soon be posting the next batch of questions

Enjoy

Best regards,
Claude

[DarkCosmoz]

Awesome, thank you Sigung for your answers and Claudien for posting.

In the meantime, here are some stories of Sun Lu Tang and Xingyiquan:

http://books.google.com/books?id=DVqGOf1WB9EC&lpg=PA228&dq=sun%20lu%20tang%20xingyiquan&pg=PA14#v=onepage&q=sun%20lu%20tang%20xingyiquan&f=true

Regards,
Stephen

[Claudien S]

More questions re Xingyiquan

Dear Shaolin Wahnam Family,

Following find the next batch of questions regarding Xingyiquan for members to take a shot at before posting Sifu's reply:

2. Would you please give me some insight on the structure and essence of Hsing Yi? Is there one main set for Hsing Yi practice? Is this the ‘Five Elemental Fists’? Are there also individual sets for the different 12 animals? Would a serious Hsing Yi practitioner have to choose in which animals to specialize?

Enjoy

Best regards,
Claude

[DarkCosmoz]

I'll take another stab.

Is there one main set for Hsing Yi practice? Is this the ‘Five Elemental Fists’?

There are different sets that are derived from the 5 Elemental Fists. Each set would focus on each elemental fist. For example, to practice Beng Chuan force (or ‘Wood’ energy), Beng Chuan and different animal patterns that specifically utilize this type of power would be incorporated into the set. In my school, “Angry Tiger Scratching at the Palace Gate” is one example.

Of course, there are other sets that would combine the different elemental fists.

Are there also individual sets for the different 12 animals? Would a serious Hsing Yi practitioner have to choose in which animals to specialize?

Not sure about the above. I know Sun Lu Tang was proficient with the Monkey form.

Regards,
Stephen

[Claudien S]

Thanks for your input Stephen.

Following enjoy the answers from Sifu

2. Would you please give me some insight on the structure and essence of Hsing Yi? Is there one main set for Hsing Yi practice? Is this the ‘Five Elemental Fists’? Are there also individual sets for the different 12 animals? Would a serious Hsing Yi practitioner have to choose in which animals to specialize?

Xingyiquan is simple and linear, in contrast with the elaborate patterns of Baguazhang and the circular movement of Taijiquan. Belies its simplicity is its profundity. Xingyiquan is known for its explosive force.

Xingyiquan was invented by the famous Song marshal, Yue Fei, sometimes regarded as the God of Martial Art. Yu Fei taught Xingyiquan to his generals, and Eagle Claw Kungfu, which he also invented, to his soldiers.

The fundamental set of Xingyiquan is the Five Elemental Process Set (commonly known as Five-Element Fist), which consists of five elemental strikes namely palm thrust, spiral fist, explosive fist, cannon fist and diagonal fist, which are designated by the five elemental processes of metal, water, wood, fire and earth.

To supplement these five fundamental strikes, there are technique inspired by twelve animals, namely dragon, tiger, monkey, horse, alligator, cockerel, hawk, swallow, snake, ostrich, eagle and bear. There is a set called Xingyi Twelve-Animal Set.

There are no individual sets for the twelve animals. Xingyiquan practitioners need not specialize in any of the animals.

There are also two sparring sets, called Five-Flower Cannon, which is based on the Five Elemental Prosess Set, and the Peace-Body Cannon, based on the Twelve-Animal Set. Because of their long history, there are different versions of these sparring sets.

In the Xingyiquan Course at UK Summer Camp 2013, we shall learn all this material and more. We shall also learn how to develop internal force using the Santi Stance, or three-Body Stance using the correspondence approach and the expansive approach. We shall also use Xingyiquan to spar with opponents of other martial art. Like Wuzuquan, Xingyiquan is excellent for acquiring the element of threat and for winning free sparring cometitions.

Best regards,
Claude

[Mark Blohm]

Dear Claude,

If the course was only about learning a set named "Five-Flower Cannon" from Sifu, it would be still be priceless!

[Claudien S]

Hey Mark Sihing,

Yes, this course is going to be amazing. I am really looking forward to it

I also smiled when I read that there was a set called 'Peace-Body Cannon'. I was thinking to myself and imagining the Past Great Hsing Yi Masters having knocked out all the opponents in front of them and they would say...'Ahh now there's peace'

See you brother and take care.

Best regards,
Claude

[DarkCosmoz]

Dear Sigung and Claudien,

Thank you again for posting the concise but informative answer. It is truly a pleasure to read.

I have 2 questions:

1. Why do Xingiyquan exponents stomp on their foot while executing a strike?

I can think of 2 reasons:

1. It helps explode your internal force.
2. It helps emphasize the arrival of mind, body and feet.

The stomping movement is also found in Chen Style Taijiquan "Immortal Pounds Mortar."

2. Can foot stomping be damaging to your internal organs if this is done too much?


Best regards,
Stephen

[JasD]

Looking forward to this

Cool links to the books, and info from Sifu!

Best,
Jas

[barrys]

Low-cost accomodation

Just to interrupt the conversation for a moment. If you are reading this thread, plan to come to the Summer Camp to bring Xingyiquan alive, and want low-cost accomodation then check out this thread http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11026.

I need to know by Saturday at the latest.

Best,

Barry

[Nick Jones]

I'm looking forward to this too! the Baguazhang course was amazing, and I think this is going to be even more so

[Claudien S]

Some more questions regarding Xingyiquan

So here you go, let's post the next batch of question

Give them a go and then I will post Sifu's answers.

3. It seems that many people refer to Hsing Yi as a martial art of mind and energy where intent controls the internal force to defeat opponent. I am aware that in Shaolin Wahnam this is how we practice all the arts including Shaolin Kung Fu, Chi Kung and Tai Chi Chuan. Would learning Hsing Yi take this skill to a new more profound level since it seems that this is the essence with which this art has been developed? I would also call Shaolin Kung Fu a martial art of mind and energy. Why is it rarely addressed in this way whilst Hsing Yi is more openly addressed in this way?

Enjoy

Best regards,
Claude

[DarkCosmoz]

I'll take another stab!

Why is it rarely addressed in this way whilst Hsing Yi is more openly addressed in this way?

Simply because Xingyiquan is so deceptively simple in its external forms. Without intent and internal force, you can't really do much with the simple fists. At least Shaolin kung fu has numerous patterns, forms and techniques to counter all kinds of attacks. Taijiquan too!

Take the famous Xingyiquan master Guo Yun Shen as an example. He beat every challenger with only his Beng Chuan fist (Crushing fist). Because of this, he was known as "the Divine Crushing Fist" since no one under heaven could beat him. Just a simple punch, and that was it.

One day, Guo applied Beng Chuan too forcefully on an opponent and killed him. As a result, he was sentenced to 3 years in prison, shackled to a ball and chain. Even with his hands and feet chained, he continued to practice just Beng Chuan. Eventually, he developed a new Beng Chuan style that involved moving half step at a time with his shackles. This new method of Crushing fist was very powerful. (The movie starring Jet Li called "The One" pays homage to that.)

When Guo was freed, his skill was higher than ever. Just by using Beng Chuan, he continued to beat all opponents that challenged him.

I can only imagine how powerful and forceful Guo's mind and internal force were. He wasn't a big guy, but he was very strong.

And by just using a punch, I can only imagine the skill level he attained!

Would learning Hsing Yi take this skill to a new more profound level since it seems that this is the essence with which this art has been developed?

Absolutely. If Guo Yun Shen learned Shaolin Kung fu, he could probably use only "Black Tiger Steals Heart" to win all fights and counter any attacks!

Best regards,
Stephen