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  • Iron Thread Set (Tit Sin Kyun) text

    hello,

    i have found this article on another forum (http://wulin.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=southern) - it is a very interesting analysis of famous Iron Thread Set (Tit Sin Kyun) of Hung Ga Gung Fu. i hope you enjoy it.
    i am looking for an original Chinese version of the text - if anybody can help, please contact me. thank you very much!

    Iron Wire Fist(Tit Sin Kuen) Author: Wu Lup Fung (disciple of Lam Sai Wing)

    At the end of the Ching dynasty, there were two Buddhist temples famous for martial arts in Canton, Guong Hao temple and Hoi Tong temple. Many monks in these temples were very skillful in GongFu. At that time, Tit Kue Sam has not yet become a monk, but he was living in one of the temples. He was fortunate to have learned Gong Fu from the monk Zui Chi. Later Tit Kue Sam became very famous in the Gong Fu circle. Every one knew he had real Shaolin Gong Fu. He was most famous for the Iron Wire Fist form. He regarded it as his best secret and taught only very few people in his life.

    Lum Fuk Sing learned the Iron Wire Fist from Tit Kue Sam. He was also skillful in using the rope dart. Lum Fuk Sing was a recluse. He kept his skills to himself and was not interested in fame. Sometimes he demonstrated his GongFu on the streets to make a living. One day when he was demonstrating the rope dart in front of a store, a guy dashed out of a narrow street and got hit by the rope dart accidentally. The local people got angry at Lum Fuk Sing and started a quarrel. Wong Kay Ying and his son Wong Fay Hong happened to pass by. They helped Lum Fuk Sing resolve the problem. Fuk Sing was very grateful and taught the secrets of Iron Wire Fist to them.
    Although my sifu Lum Sai Wing was the disciple of Wong Fay Hong, he didn't learn the Iron Wire Fist until fifteen years after he became a disciple. Sifu thought the old masters were too secretive and wanted to spread his Gong Fu to benefit society. He taught everything openly . Many people learned Gong Fu from Lum Sai Wing, but not many learned the Iron Wire Fist. I am afraid such a treasure gets lost. That's why I am writing this article to explain all the principles and secrets. Hopefully it will help spread Gong Fu and make people healthier.
    The Iron Wire Fist improves blood circulation and muscular strength. It exercises all the internal organs, muscles, nerves, and removes toxins generated by the body. At the same time, the Iron Wire Fist emphasizes breathing techniques. It strengthens the lung, which leads to strengthening all the internal organs.

    All physical movements are controlled by the brain. Practicing the Iron Wire Fist enhances the ability of the brain to control all internal organs, thus strengthening the nervous system. All beginners of the Iron Wire Fist must have determination for success. At the beginning stage, don't pay too much attention to the correctness of movements. Practice as much as you can. When you reach a certain level, you can feel whether your movements are correct or not, because all the breathing and movements are natural.

    1. Because the movements are natural, the muscles and the nerves get proper exercise. The body becomes naturally strong as a result.

    2. The different sounds emitted during the form exercises the internal organs. It is difficult to exercise internal organs just doing physical movements. Only sound can produce vibrations to stimulate internal organs and develop internal strength.

    3. Proper breathing can help Chi circulation connecting the meridians. It also helps improve blood circulation.

    4. Coordinating movement, sound and breathing corresponds with coordinating internal organs, muscles, and blood circulation. This makes the body very healthy and can prevent diseases.

    5. Deep breathing in fresh air before practicing the form makes practice more effective.

    6. Correspondence between the different sounds, five elements and the internal organs:

    a. heart: fire, the sound is "yik", the associated property is fierce
    b. liver: wood, the sound is "tik", the associated property is hard
    c. pancreas: earth, the sound is "mng"(use the nose), the associated property is heavy
    d. lung: gold, the sound is "tee", the associated property is light
    e. kidney: water, the sound is "haa", the associated property is secretive
    f. small intestine, the sound is "kit", connected to the heart, the associated emotion is happy
    g. gall bladder, the sound is "zaa", connected to the liver, the associated emotion is angry
    h. stomach, the sound is "horr", connected to the pancreas, the associated emotion is worry
    i. large intestine, the sound is "hut", connected to the lung, the associated emotion is sad
    j. bladder, the sound is "yah", connected to the kidney, the associated emotion is scared

    7. The key to all movements lies in conflict. If you want to move first be quiet. If you want to
    release first retract. If you want to press down first lift up. If you want to go to the left first go to the right. When you move, everything inside and outside, your body, mind intent, spirit, Chi, blood, all move together. There should not be any stalemate.

    The Iron Wire Fist adopts the Yee Jee Kim Yong Stance. This posture aligns the vertebrate in to the correct position. It can adjust the misaligned joints on the vertebrate. This is vital in improving health.

    The 12 principles(12 bridges) and explainations:
    1. Gong(hard): Gong belongs to Yang. Gong has form(as opposed to Yao, which is formless). It
    builds a strong body to resist all outside attacks. The bones are Gong. Too much Gong is not good
    because Yin and Yang has to be balanced, so there should always be some Yao in Gong.

    2. Yao(soft): Yao belongs to Yin. Yao is formless. Yao should be used in actual combat. The muscles and skin are Yao. Yao should also be balanced by Gong.

    3. Bik(close): When closing in the opponent, use Bik to find opening for attack. If the opponent is
    strong then avoid his attack and follow in, if the opponent is weak then find an opening and go in.

    4. Jik(straight): Jik means straight, extend. It's used to train the power in fingers, wrists, heels, toes and ankles. Power comes from the waist and connects with the limbs.

    5. Fun(separate): Fun is used to ward off an attack. Fun is used to divide the opponent's forces or his attention.

    6. Ding(immobile): Ding means taciturn. Your concentration is absolute and you wait for the
    opponent in calmness. Ding is used to wait for the opponent's attack, and then respond accordingly.

    7. Chuen(inch): Your posture, hand and leg position should always be correct to the smallest measurement. Chuen also includes short power issued by the fingers.

    8. Tei(lift): Tei is used for defence. Be watchful for surprise attacks. All bridge hands moving from low to high belongs to Tei. The power comes from the stances for all such moves.

    9. Lau(stay): the opposite of Lau is Fong(release) When you attack, don't release all the way, but
    don't retain too much either. There should be a balance between Lau and Fong. Lau also refers to
    the transition from one move to the next. There is a small interval when you are static, but not stagnant.

    10. Wun(move): Wun means movements. The spirit, mind intent, Chi, strength, hand, eye, waist, leg all should be coordinated when they move.

    11. Jai(stop): Stifle the opponent's attack. Jai refers to all blocks and parries.

    12. Ding(test) Test the opponent and judge his strength and weakness before you set up a strategy to defeat him. Ding is used to set up a battle plan according to the situation and your judgment
    Pavel Macek Sifu

    Practical Hung Kyun 實用洪拳

    sigpic

  • #2
    Hi PM,

    Your post is very interesting, lots of good information there.

    I think the "Iron Thread" (Tiet Sin Kuen) is a force training method that is also excellent for health.

    Here is what maser Lam Sai Wing (1860-1943) said about the "Iron Thread" set:

    "This method of Qi Gong is the best for those who practice the Fighting Arts. I myself could achieve my tutor Wong Fei Hung's results with the use of this method and Master Fei Hung could achieve the results of honorable tutor Ling Fu Chen who in his time was the best disciple of Tiet Qiao San, the unsurpassed master…"

    "From my own experience I know that the most impressing thing in TIET SIN Qi Gong is that the physical strength of those who train themselves can be increased by nine times. It is hard to believe for those who did not practice this method..."

    You guys might find this website interesting: Hung Gar - Lam Sai Wing

    The Tiet Sin Kuen can be ordered from there as a PDF file (70 movements). The first 8 movements can be downloaded for free.

    To Instructors: Is the Iron Wire method used in Shaolin Wahnam?

    Thank you.
    "If you can walk one mile, you can walk a hundred miles"
    Sigung Ho Fatt Nam

    Comment


    • #3
      To Instructors: Is the Iron Wire method used in Shaolin Wahnam?
      Yes and no. Sifu knows the method, but to the best of my knowledge, he does not often teach it. Perhaps he teaches it to disciples who are more advanced than me, but I am not sure. I would have to consult Sifu to be sure of his reasons, but if you want my opinion, I there are two:

      1. Iron Wire is and advanced force training method that can bring tremendous internal force and good health, but it can also bring serious harmful effects if practiced without a master's supervision.

      2. We use other high-level methods to achieve the same goals. The Art of One Finger Shooting Zen is the fundamental force training method in our Shaolin Wahnam school. We believe this is one of the best force training methods, which is why it is practiced by both beginners and masters. One advantage of this method is it can be practiced safely by a relative beginner.
      Sifu Anthony Korahais
      www.FlowingZen.com
      (Click here to learn more about me.)

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello Sihing,

        I'm sure whatever Sifu does or doesn't do he has a good reason for. Someone did ask Sifu about the Iron Thread method, it's somewhere in the Q&A website, but I don't remember which year and month.

        If you do get some more information about it from Sifu, please post it here if possible

        Thanks.
        "If you can walk one mile, you can walk a hundred miles"
        Sigung Ho Fatt Nam

        Comment


        • #5
          Dear MoMoJuice,

          You can use the Google search utility to search Sifu's site, including his Q&A series. Here are the results based upon a search for "iron wire" :

          Michael Durkin
          Shaolin Wahnam England - Manchester
          www.shaolinwahnam.co.uk

          Comment


          • #6
            Dear Michael,

            Yea! I have to remember to use the google search next time. Your excellent search results contain lots of excellent answers by Sifu about the Iron Wire Set.

            Thanks a lot for the help
            "If you can walk one mile, you can walk a hundred miles"
            Sigung Ho Fatt Nam

            Comment


            • #7
              i am glad you have enjoyed the article. still not luck in obtaining the Chinese original version:-(

              for those who are interested, check out http://www.hungga.org/en/gallery/lsw.htm - the most complete Lam Saiwing photogallery on the web (if you know any other photo of Grandmaster Lam, let me knowm, pelase). some photos show Grandmaster Lam performing Tit Sin Kyun, Iron Thread Set.

              http://www.hungga.org/en/gallery/lsw_tsk.htm shows drawings of the Tit Sin Kyun - whole set, and at http://www.hungga.org/en/gallery/lsw_gjffk.htm you can see another of the "three trasures of Hung Ga (Hung Ga Saam Bou), "taming of the tiger in gung pattern", performed by Grandmaster Lam Saiwing.

              enjoy!:-)
              Pavel Macek Sifu

              Practical Hung Kyun 實用洪拳

              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi PM,
                Many thanks for the links. It is very informative and interessting!

                Repectfully

                Roland
                "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                Website: www.enerqi.ch

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Pavel,

                  How's it going in Czech? Remember me from Frankfurt '03?

                  I'm currently training with a Tai Ki Ken master (related to Yiquan) here in Tokyo. I remember you mentioning a Chinese Yiquan teacher with horns! (I think thats what you said?) Can you remember a name for him? Or a location for his school? Or anything really? I'm still really intrigued by this!

                  Those pictures of Grand Master Lam Sai Wing are fantastic, by the way!

                  Thanks,
                  Mark

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    dear Mark,

                    of course i remember:-) how are you?

                    tai ki ken = dachengquan (other name for yiquan) in Japanese?

                    yiquan is a great style, oh, damned Chinese martial arts, i wish i have more time, right now Siu Lam Hung Ga Kyun is more than enough fo me (and i like Wing Cheun, Choi Lei Fat, Lama Paai, taijiquan, yiquan so much... i study less, but practice more, "3 treasuers of Hung Ga, knives and long pole, more than for one life).

                    as for the Chinese yiquan master, i just know he is teaching on the top of the mountain somewhere in central China. he is a second generation from Wang Xiangzhai, the founder of yiquan/dachengquan. i can ask about more specific details (name, address etc.) if you like.

                    all the best, i am happy to hear from you!
                    Last edited by PM; 7 March 2005, 09:57 PM.
                    Pavel Macek Sifu

                    Practical Hung Kyun 實用洪拳

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dear Pavel,

                      I'm fine, thanks (enjoying my time here in Japan! Although, struggling a bit with the language...)

                      Yes, Tai ki ken (or Tai ki shi sei ken po) is the Japanese name for Yi Quan (Dachenquan). Too many names! I've been really lucky to find a very generous teacher, with very friendly and patient students!

                      It would be great if you could get some more details about that Chinese yiquan master! I'm hoping to return to China in the next 2 years or so... So there's no hurry!

                      Thanks,
                      Mark

                      Comment

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