Astral Projection

[DarkCosmoz]

Let's hypothetically assume that you meet a titan when you project. Will an earnest "Om Mani Padme Hum" drive the entity away?

[DarkCosmoz]

To keep the thread going since the topic is interesting, below is an excerpt from a book on "thought forms":

THREE CLASSES OF THOUGHT-FORMS

From the point of view of the forms which they produce we may group thought into three classes:—

1. That which takes the image of the thinker. When a man thinks of himself as in some distant place, or wishes earnestly to be in that place, he makes a thought-form in his own image which appears there. Such a form has not infrequently been seen by others, and has sometimes been taken for the astral body or apparition of the man himself. In such a case, either the seer must have enough of clairvoyance for the time to be able to observe that astral shape, or the thought-form must have sufficient strength to materialise itself—that is, to draw round itself temporarily a certain amount of physical matter. The thought which generates such a form as this must necessarily be a strong one, and it therefore employs a larger proportion of the matter of the mental body, so that though the form is small and compressed when it leaves the thinker, it draws round it a considerable amount of astral matter, and usually expands to life-size before it appears at its destination.

2. That which takes the image of some material object. When a man thinks of his friend he forms within his mental body a minute image of that friend, which often passes outward and usually floats suspended in the air before him. In the same way if he thinks of a room, a house, a landscape, tiny images of these things are formed within the mental body and afterwards externalised. This is equally true when he is exercising his imagination; the painter who forms a conception of his future picture builds it up out of the matter of his mental body, and then projects it into space in front of him, keeps it before his mind's eye, and copies it. The novelist in the same way builds images of his character in mental matter, and by the exercise of his will moves these puppets from one position or grouping to another, so that the plot of his story is literally acted out before him. With our curiously inverted conceptions of reality it is hard for us to understand that these mental images actually exist, and are so entirely objective that they may readily be seen by the clairvoyant, and can even be rearranged by some one other than their creator. Some novelists have been dimly aware of such a process, and have testified that their characters when once created developed a will of their own, and insisted on carrying the plot of the story along lines quite different from those originally intended by the author. This has actually happened, sometimes because the thought-forms were ensouled by playful nature-spirits, or more often because some 'dead' novelist, watching on the astral plane the development of the plan of his fellow-author, thought that he could improve upon it, and chose this method of putting forward his suggestions.

3. That which takes a form entirely its own, expressing its inherent qualities in the matter which it draws round it. Only thought-forms of this third class can usefully be illustrated, for to represent those of the first or second class would be merely to draw portraits or landscapes. In those types we have the plastic mental or astral matter moulded in imitation of forms belonging to the physical plane; in this third group we have a glimpse of the forms natural to the astral or mental planes. Yet this very fact, which makes them so interesting, places an insuperable barrier in the way of their accurate reproduction.

[Andrew R]

Let's hypothetically assume that you meet a titan when you project. Will an earnest "Om Mani Padme Hum" drive the entity away?

An interesting notion. As I understand it we're not leaving the world when we project, we're just in a different part of it. And we still maintain consciousness, so I would say yeah it would do some good. I remember reading in one of Sigung's books that when you recite Guan Yin's name in the face of a malevolent entity, that being has such great respect for her that it will leave you alone.

Interestingly, last night I had a dream where I was in my house back home and I felt threatened by something I couldn't see, so I started chanting to Guan Yin for help. My memory is a little fuzzy, but I remember the thing eventually going away. This is maybe the third or fourth time I've had that dream. Dreams are supposedly a type of projection from our body where we create situations with our unconscious, so I guess I'd have to say yeah, chanting to a Bodhisattva would be helpful.

Drew

[DarkCosmoz]

Hey Drew,

You dream actually was similar to a dream I had a few years ago. In my dream, I was being brought to a 17th century style guillotine by two guards. The executioner I recalled was a big man with a black mask on his face. Just as he was about to release the guillotine, I remember chanting Namo Guan Shi Yin Pu Sa over and over and over again.
When the guillotine did come down, the blade shattered into what I thought was a million pieces. I remember being so relieved in the dream and the executioner let me go. Bizarre but interesting dream experience!

-Stephen

[Andrew R]

Hmmm...clearly there is nowhere the great Avalokitesvara can't go, and I'd be surprised if the astral realm were an exception.

The strange thing about my dream is that I always have a really hard time getting out the words, like my voice had been taken away and I have to fight just to make sounds.

Another thing I remember reading in Sigung's book Sukhavati was if you go into deep meditation while praising a Bodhisattva, in this case Guan Yin, and ask for him/her to present him/herself to you it can either be at that moment or in a dream, or whenever. I don't think dreams are just creations of the mind, I think it involves interaction with the world, which would allow for being visited by a holy being. Otherwise, seeing Guan Yin in a dream could be passed off as just an illusion. I've felt her blessings before, so I know that's not the case.

Perhaps a problem that could present itself during astral projection would be uncertainty in one's actions. If I'm a rookie projector and I run into a powerful entity that wishes me harm, maybe I won't think to ask for help, and then I'll just be demolished.

The question of what exactly goes on in dreams and where they come from I find intriguing. I think every class I've taken in college that has talked about this so far has given a different explanation. Do you think that dreams are interactions with the astral realm, or perhaps another realm outside of the physical? Can we access dreams through astral projection?

Drew

[ryanberg]

I remember a nightmare I had a year or so ago, where I was aware enough that I asked Guan Shi Yin for help. Almost instantly I felt myself being pulled through a wall that was in front of me (a rather strange sensation haha)... and woke up as I passed through the wall.

I would imagine the circumstances of a dream would be a little different than those of projecting to another realm. Although I believe Sifu did say that even powerful beings near by who hear you chanting the name of a Buddha will give you their protection, such as devil kings and dragons. So perhaps if you were focused enough to chant the name of Guan Yin you would be saved.

However, who knows whether or not as a beginner you would be caught off guard and not have a chance or not have the mental clarity to chant for help. I remember one story about someone who projected to one of the realms of hell where there was no solid form... all the beings there would shift in and out of terrible shapes but not be able to maintain the shape for long. Given a shift in reality that big, it seems possible that you might be a bit distracted as you tried to gain your bearings.

Ryan

[Bernardo]

Just as he was about to release the guillotine, I remember chanting Namo Guan Shi Yin Pu Sa over and over and over again.
When the guillotine did come down, the blade shattered into what I thought was a million pieces. I remember being so relieved in the dream and the executioner let me go.

From the Lotus Sutra:

10. If a man, delivered to the power of the executioners, is already standing at the place of execution, he has but to think of Avalokitesvara, and their swords shall go to pieces.

From the Mahakaruna Dharani Sutra:

If I go towards the mountain of knives, the mountain of knives of itself breaks up;
If I go towards the boiling oil, the boiling oil of itself dries up;
If I go towards the hells, the hells of themselves disappear;
If I go towards the hungry ghosts, the hungry ghosts of themselves become full.
If I go towards the Asuras, their evil thoughts of themselves are tamed.
If I go towards the animals, they themselves attain great wisdom."

Blessings!

Bernardo

[DarkCosmoz]

I don't think dreams are just creations of the mind, I think it involves interaction with the world, which would allow for being visited by a holy being.

The author of the astral projection site posted in this thread explains:

This is how the subconscious mind creates dreams: By tuning into the astral dimension during sleep, it can create any scenario it wishes. This is the subconscious mind's way of solving problems and of communicating with the conscious mind. It creates a series of complex thought form scenarios and projects them into the mind stuff of the astral dimension, where they become solid. The conscious mind then lives through and experiences these created scenarios in the dream state. In a way its like a movie projector (subconscious mind) projecting onto a movie screen (astral dimension).

He states that in the astral world, whatever one thinks manifests instantly. If you successfully project yourself into your living room, you may see things that are not supposed to be there because your subconscious is going wild. Eventually, you may end slipping back into a dream.

Perhaps a problem that could present itself during astral projection would be uncertainty in one's actions. If I'm a rookie projector and I run into a powerful entity that wishes me harm, maybe I won't think to ask for help, and then I'll just be demolished.

and

However, who knows whether or not as a beginner you would be caught off guard and not have a chance or not have the mental clarity to chant for help. I remember one story about someone who projected to one of the realms of hell where there was no solid form... all the beings there would shift in and out of terrible shapes but not be able to maintain the shape for long. Given a shift in reality that big, it seems possible that you might be a bit distracted as you tried to gain your bearings.

That dream experience I had was actually one of the rare cases where I was lucid. I had other nightmares where I was drowning, for example, and didn't even think about calling for help: I just wanted to get to the surface for air. So I can definitely see your point.

10. If a man, delivered to the power of the executioners, is already standing at the place of execution, he has but to think of Avalokitesvara, and their swords shall go to pieces.

Wow, Bernardo! I must have read that somewhere before for it to manifest in my dream like that. Thanks for the sutra links!


Stephen

[Bernardo]

Wow, Bernardo! I must have read that somewhere before for it to manifest in my dream like that. Thanks for the sutra links!

You are welcome, Stephen!

Personally, I don't think you must have read that before in order to dream what you dreamt. I could be wrong, though.

Regards,

Bernardo.

[Andrew R]

If I go towards the hungry ghosts, the hungry ghosts of themselves become full.

Interesting, this might lead to an explanation for my dream as well. I have yet to experience lucid dreaming though, just very vivid dreams. But I guess dreams in themselves are an experience of a deeper consciousness, so it could still be interaction with a higher being, or just a testament to the power of prayer.

By tuning into the astral dimension during sleep, it can create any scenario it wishes. This is the subconscious mind's way of solving problems and of communicating with the conscious mind.

My Japanese Buddhism teacher last year said essentially the same thing about dreams. He also said that recurring dreams are the unconscious' way of telling us we're doing something we need to change, or a repeated scene is an important message for our life. To my understanding we all have a natural barrier between our physical and astral bodies, but they're still very connected. The barrier exists because without it we would be flooded with absolute madness from the astral realm and I guess all our thoughts would immediately take effect, like in the astral realm, which would prove to be chaotic. Thus, dreams are our natural way of maintaining the link between conscious & unconscious (or physical and astral body).

I think drugs are a good example of this. Instead of systematically lessening the barrier, such as in meditation, certain drugs might completely rid of the barrier temporarily, offering a spiritual experience (although a fake one in my opinion). Instances where drug users go mad could be when the barrier just isn't formed again or it's abused by drugs too much, so the person loses control of their bodies/minds. Make sense?

Drew

[DarkCosmoz]

Make sense?

It sure does for now.


You know, I was thinking about how our thoughts instantly manifest in the astral realm (called thought-forms) and how it never seems to manifest in the physical world. You must really want to have something in order for the thought to manifest in the physical world.

Being bored and on Thanksgiving vacation, I was looking up "thought-forms" on Google and found a whole bunch of interesting information.

Thought-forms apparently can be given life and a purpose!

Thought-forms is another term for tulpas.

From Wikipedia:

A tulpa is, in Tibetan mysticism, a being or object which is created through willpower, visualisation, attention and focus, concerted intentionality and ritual. In other words, it is a materialized thought that has taken physical form.

How freaky is that! You can create entities and shape it in whichever way you intend it to be. That means that not all spirits come from that of deceased ones... rather they were created by our imaginations!

There are true stories, for instance, where one child's imaginary friend had remarkable abilities to foretell past and future events.


-Stephen

[Andrew R]

You can create entities and shape it in whichever way you intend it to be. That means that not all spirits come from that of deceased ones... rather they were created by our imaginations!

Two stories:
1) Have you ever heard of shadow people? These are supposed entities that are completely shaped by one's mind; they only exist to the person who creates them, but don't really exist. This happened to a friend of mine last year. She was really scared of being attacked by spirits, and then eventually she started seeing these shadow people at night on the walls, and one night even woke up and found a black hand hovering in front of her face.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_people

2) For a while I was seemingly followed by something. I won't get into details, but I was always experiencing weird things. Even other people were convinced by stuff that happened. I think now that it started because of my fear of spirits and the unseen. Eventually I decided "this is silly" and whenever something happened I just brushed it off and smiled from the heart. It's been a while since anything has happened now.

Creation of the mind??? I'd say it's certainly possible. While it's interesting to talk about, my advice is to not get caught up in it. Discuss it, but let it go, so you don't start to have something follow you

Drew

[DarkCosmoz]

Have you ever heard of shadow people?

Nope. But now that I have, it sounds really creepy haha.

For a while I was seemingly followed by something. I won't get into details, but I was always experiencing weird things. Even other people were convinced by stuff that happened. I think now that it started because of my fear of spirits and the unseen.

Good thing it stopped. It used to happen to me when I was younger as well. They say that children are the best true magicians in the world, and I believe it.

This means, then, that the Greek and Roman gods must have been real to an extent since they had hundreds of thousands of believers.

[Ray]

Hey guys,
I had a few dreams where I was attacked by really scary monsters and zombies. In one dream I was attacked by a Sadako (The Ring) like creature but as I chanted the monster began to sink into the walls and kept retreating until finally it's ghpst;y hand went back into the walls and it was finally gone. Another dream I rememember chanting in front of some large grotesque sculpture that had all these skulls and limbs and ugly things and as I chanted the thing began to melt and change into a sculpture of buddhas and bodhissatvas.
Regarding Shadow people a friend of mine and his family saw dark beings crawl around in their living room in broad daylight. It kind of slithered from the ceiling and out the window really fast and my friend and his sister both gave a "Did you see that?" response.
The power of belier is really powerful, Wei Joo and I were talking about how if everyone on the planet really believed the world would end tomorrow it most likely would. So perhaps if we all really believed that there will be a better tomorrow and that world peace can happen it mostly would too.

Love and respect,

Ray

[DarkCosmoz]

Thanks for your experiences and insights Ray. Thoughts are indeed very powerful, as Sifu Wong has mentioned countless of times.