Differences between Original Chinese Medicine and Traditional Chinese Medicine

[Shaolinfist]

Does anyone know of any good schools in the UK which teach Chinese Medicine as opposed to TCM, with specific emphasis on pulse diagnosis?
Namo Ami Tuo Fo
Phil

[Sifu Stier]

Re: UK Classical Chinese Medicine Contact

Hello Phil!

The J.R. Worsley organization is totally top drawer in the non-TCM, Classical Chinese Medicine in the UK and elsewhere. Information about their educational programs, their clinic services, their physical address, et al, can be found at the website:

www.sofea.co.uk ~ or e-mail to: info@sofea.co.uk

By telephoning: 020 7383 5553


By postal mail or personal visit at:

The School of Five Element Acupuncture
13 Mandela Street
London NW1 0DU


I hope this helps your search. Best of luck to you!

Sifu Stier

[Shaolinfist]

Thank you very much I will most certainly look into it. I have wanted to study Chinese Medicine for a while now and am working my way to be in a position where I can afford to financially and time-wise. Finding a good school and looking at what they have to offer is definately a good step towards realising my goals. So thanks again.
Namo Ami Tuo Fo
Phil

[AlexBaranosky]

Sifu Stier,
Are there any schools that you like that are in the US? Thanks a lot your commentary is very helpful!

Alex

[Antonius]

Slightly tangential, but we actually study bits of Prof. Worsley's Five Element style at our school because Dr. Hammer thinks it is good stuff. Our Five Element teacher studied directly with Prof. Worsley, and she is excellent.

[AlexBaranosky]

I don't mind the off-topic post because it is helping me make my assessments for the school I am going to attend!

Just don't tell the moderator(s)!

[Antonius]

I talked to a lot of my professors this week, including Dr. Hammer. In terms of Pulse Diagnosis, the comparison between TCM and COM (Contemporary Oriental Medicine, which is Dr. Hammer's acronym) is quite revealing. Many of my professors went to TCM-oriented schools before meeting Dr. Hammer.

The general concensus is that in most TCM schools, the Pulse is largely an enigma, even amongst the teachers. Many teachers even dismiss the pulse because it is so unreliable! Generally speaking, most TCM students in the US are only able to feel Excess or Deficiency in the 6 principle positions. In terms of diagnosis, this doesn't have much clinical significance.

The situation at our school is quite different. We have 22 positions and over 50 qualities that can be felt in each position. Nor is this mere theory. Dr. Hammer and all of his "disciples" can accurately feel these qualities. And they can teach the skill.

No wonder many TCM practitioners don't bother with traditional diagnosis. Without the Pulse, it's difficult to make an accurate diagnosis. When you are skillful in Pulse Diagnosis, you can make a fairly accurate diagnosis without using any of other diagnostic methods. When you then match the information found in the Pulse to the other diagnostic methods (tongue, asking, listening, etc.), the result is a highly accurate and reliable diagnostic method.

[Sifu Stier]

Re: Classical Pulse Diagnosis

Nice post! You state a couple of things I am curious to hear more about, however.

In my learning and clinic practice...12 Positions...i.e. 3 Superficial and 3 Deep Positions are palpatated on the radial artery of both wrists to monitor 12 different Bilateral Energy Channels and their Collaterals (Ching-Luo) and 8 so-called Extra Meridian Vessels or Channels to diagnose 20 Channels altogether. Each Pulse Position may express 28 individuals qualities or characteristics...or some combination thereof each. I am curious about the 50 qualities. Care to share?

The primary base qualities are: (1) Fast; (2) Slow; (3) Full; (4) Empty; (5) Floating; (6) Sunken.....with additional qualities such as Slippery, Wiry, Long, Short, Hidden, Intermittent, Moving, Scattered, Knotted, etc. taken into due consideration as adjunctive to the primary qualities. But even several of these 28 adjunctive qualities overlap with such subtle differences as to elude most practitioners to begin with. There is some merit to diagnostically assessing what is felt in the 'space' between the Superficial and Deep Pulse Positions to make 18 Pulse Positions in total once the methods are mastered with longer time of experience. By supplementing the radial pulse reading with palpatation of other major arteries such as the femoral artery, the external carotid artery, the illiac arteries, and others, the total number of positions may be increased. Is this how you get 22 different positions?

[Antonius]

Dr. Hammer's Pulse System

Dear Sifu Stier,

Thank you for the kind words. I have had only limited exposure to Prof. Worsley's Pulse System, but I know this: it works. My understanding of that system is similar to what you describe.

Dr. Hammer's system, which is based on Dr. John Shen's system, is a bit different. In addition to the 6 primary positions, we also have the following complementary posistions. Some are formed by combining other positions, and some of them are found bilaterally:

1. Diaphragm
2. Distal Liver Engorged
3. Duodenum
4. Esophagus
5. Gallbladder
6. Large Intestine
7. Large Vessel
8. Mitral Valve
9. Neuro-phsychological
10. Pelvis/Lower Body
11. Pericardium
12. Peritoneum (Pancreas)
13. Pleura
14. Radial Liver Engorged
15. Small Intestine
16. Special Lung
17. Stomach Pylorus Extension
18. Ulnar Liver Engorged

The list of qualities, rhythms, and anomalies is much longer. Many of these came from Dr. Shen, but were renamed by Dr. Hammer. Others, like the “Split” pulse, have been discovered by Dr. Hammer or his disciples:

1. Absent
2. Absent @ Qi
3. Biting
4. Blood Heat
5. Blood Thick
6. Blood Unclear
7. Choppy
8. Cotton
9. Dead
10. Deep
11. Diffuse
12. Diminished @ Qi
13. Dough
14. Empty
15. Fan Quan
16. Feeble
17. Firm
18. Flat
19. Floating
20. Flooding Deficient
21. Flooding Excess
22. Hesitant
23. Hidden
24. Hollow Full Overflowing
25. Inflated
26. Intensity Changing
27. Intermittent
28. Interrupted
29. Leather
30. Leather-like Hollow
31. Long
32. Minute
33. Muffled
34. Nonhomogenous
35. Normal
36. Rate Change w/ Exertion
37. Reduced Pounding
38. Reduced Substance
39. Restricted
40. Robust Pounding
41. Ropy
42. Rough Vibration
43. San Yin
44. Scattered
45. Short
46. Slippery
47. Smooth Vibration
48. Spinning Bean
49. Split
50. Spreading
51. Subtle/Vague
52. Suppressed
53. Taut
54. Tense
55. Thin
56. Yielding @ Qi
57. Yielding @ Qi
58. Yielding Empty Threadlike
59. Yielding Partially Hollow

Many of these qualities are extremely rare, but Dr. Hammer is nothing if not thorough. But his disciples seem to be able to accurately recognize even the rare qualities after feeling them only once or twice, presumably because of their overall skill in pulse diagnosis.

Most of this information can be found in Dr. Hammer's book, "Chinese Pulse Diagnosis, A Contemporary Approach."

[Mark A]

Applying for courses in the UK

Hi Folks,
I just thought I would share some info on some of the courses in the UK. There are a few Universities in the UK now actually offering Acupuncture courses.

As far as I can tell these are based on the TCM courses that origainate from China. Reading some of the Lecturers profile's they have all studied in China etc up to quite high levels.

Now as we have all spoken about this is not OCM.


My plan is to attend one of this course run by the Universities as I will at least get a fair chunk of knowledge. This also allows me to get access to financial aid such as students loans etc. These loans cannot be accessed if you are attending a private learning centre in the UK.

Now after I have these qualification I am planning on attending course such as the SOFEA centre is offering. My hope is that I will be able to actually start developing the art.

Again my thanks to Sihing Anthiny and Sifustier this thread has been fantastic


Mark A

[HumbleStudent]

Intense Pulses

Thank you, Antonius, for the brief explanation of Dr. Hammer's teaching of the pulses. My Teacher will probably want to check out that book. My teacher has explained some other methods for analysing the pulse that are interesting, but very hard to explain without diagrams.

Assuming the pulse has a base unit of 1 peak and 1 valley, the width of the peak can indicate if there is heat/cold attacking the organ. It can also indicate if an infection is bacterial or viral in cause. If the anomolie occurs in the ascent portion of the peak, the organic is affecting the emotional; if it is in the descent portion, the reverse is true. Also, the relationship in size between the peak and valley can show the yin/yang balance of the organ.

Now what seems almost impossible to me, is developing the qi and sensitivity to be able to break down the yin organ into the 5 elements and the yang order into 5 elements. These 10 levels constitute the organic level (center) of the pulse. There are 2 superficial levels for analysis of emotional information and 2 deep levels for analysis of chronic problems.

Some days I feel I will never get the sensitivity to feel all those levels and get extremely frustrated!

[Maxime]

Dear All,

Thank you very much for the detailed answers. I keep my mind working on them…

A little bit more on pulses:

After centuries of practical experience, the number of recorded pulses has increased: for example Zhang Jin Yue records 16 pulses (Jin Yue Quan Shu, 1624); Li Shi Zhen records 27 of them (Bin Hu Mai Xue,1564); recorded by Li Zhong Zi in the Zhen Jia Zheng Yan (1642) are today’s 28 pulses. Of course, many good teachers have recorded others pulses (for example, Anthony Sihing’s teacher) and I have come across different sources recording others pulses too. Nevertheless those 28 pulses are usually the core system (this does not mean it is superior to others teachings)…

My Chinese Medicine teachers have the following 'basic' program for Pulse Diagnostic (seems exactly the same as Sifu Stier’s):

6 positions, with an emphasis on the 6 important types of pulses:
1. Floating pulses
2. Deep pulses (submerged)
3. Slow pulses
4. Fast pulses
5. Empty pulses
6. Full pulses

The 28 pulses can be also classified into 6 types, namely the position (floating and deep, for example), the dimension, the frequency (slow or fast, for example), the rhythm, the form, the force (empty or full, for example)
Experience in practicing will develop skills in feeling the 28 ‘qualities’ of pulses (all included in the above 6 types, i.e each one of the 28 varieties is found in one of the 6 main types), namely (in Chinese, sorry I have only the French translation):

Fu
Ru
Kou
Ge
Chen
Lao
Fu
Duan
Chang
Hong
Xi or Xiao
Shuo or Shu
Ji
Huan
Chi
Cu
Jie
Dai
Hua
Dong
Se
Xian
Jin
Shio
Xu
Ruo
Wei
San

The pulses are felt in each one of the 6 positions (3 left, 3 right); moreover, each position should be felt both at superficial and deep level, and for the most skilled practitioner in an intermediary level (as Sifu Stier suggested in his previous post). That means, there are 18 ‘positions’ to be felt.

There is much more on the subject, my post was just intended to show to fresh beginners the complexity of the system, more importantly its effectiveness. Once again, I am grateful to my seniors for paving the way, i.e stressing the importance of pulse diagnostic in Original Chinese medicine.

To quote one of my teachers: ‘if you go to a Chinese doctor and he doesn’t feel your pulse, or merely put small interest when feeling it, you could be quite sure that he is not a real Chinese doctor; just turn your back and go away.’

Maxime

[Antonius]

‘if you go to a Chinese doctor and he doesn’t feel your pulse, or merely put small interest when feeling it, you could be quite sure that he is not a real Chinese doctor; just turn your back and go away.’

Excellent advice. As I said, Dr. Hammer spends an hour just on the pulse in the patient's first session.

[Paul bird]

For Mark A

Hi Mark,

I attended one year of a four year degree at ICOM (international college of oriental medicine) in east Sussex, England. I would just like to say that the teachers at this college were amazing acupuncturists practising at a very high level. One of our teachers could tell the if a woman was pregnant and the gender of the baby through pulse alone. They are teaching a very develped art. Unfortunately I could not keep up with the work as it is extremely demanding and I had to keep doing a part time job, it ripped me up. Despite practising Chi Kung! If I went back I would make sure my finances were better.

I think you would do well to visit their web site if you are intersted in attending a good college.

Good luck my friend.

Paul.

[Maxime]

Dear All,

Hi Mark,
One of our teachers could tell the if a woman was pregnant and the gender of the baby through pulse alone. They are teaching a very develped art.

In last July I had the opportunity to participate in an 'intensive' diagnostic course. Not to mention the details, but as we were diagnosing a pregnant woman, my teacher just told her the baby was a girl, just by feeling the pulse.

Yin and Yang levels can be felt through pulse sensing, if the pregnant woman has a baby girl then the Yin level (girl) will be perceptible (or the Yang level for a baby boy). Nothing mystical, but surely marvellous and superb!

Regards,

Maxime