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Ultimate Iron Palm by Sifu Wing Lam

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  • #16
    Thank you for that post.

    We are in Shaolin Wahnam and train as Grandmaster Wong teaches because we chose to. It is not that we parrot our Sifu. It is simply that we agree with him, and choose to use the same words as he does, instead of re-inventing the wheel and trying to paraphrase him. It just doesnt make sense to do extra work.

    Notice i used the word "choose/chose" twice in the preceding paragraph. A parrot doesn't think, process and digest words it has learnt (maybe it does, but I don't know). It regurgitates what it hears and remembers. I remember that Sifu, more than once, has described students and even disciples who listen to him and find it very hard to believe him sometimes, especially when he delves into areas which challenge their existing paradigm. He would say something to the effect of "They trust me, but find it to believe this. But because they are good students, they try out what I have taught them, and experience for themselves whether what i say is true."

    I can see why words like "third-class", "low-level", "destructive" ejusdem generis, may offend you. In another place, in another time, perhaps I would be offended too. But in reality, it is a question of different perspectives and priorities. There are reasons why some people like yourself chose to specialise in Iron Palm while others, Cosmos Palm. Incidentally, I practice neither (at least not that I know) - me, I am busy putting the finishing touches on my Cotton Candy Palm.

    I think you may have chosen to take my Sifu's words in the answer you linked in a negative way, and possibly out of context. Most people want to learn Iron Palm because all they want to do is to fight, and this mindset is reflected in the arts and methods they choose. Those who have other aims and objectives will search for and practice an art more suited for such aims. I fully agree that Iron Palm can also be good for health, but vis-a-viz Cosmos Palm, it is not on the same level.

    If all things are equal, Iron Palm is "harder" and more external than Cosmos Palm, which is more focussed on internal cultivation (again, I stress this is relative and subject to the ceterus paribus principle). If I wish to emphasise the internal aspect, I would naturally find it more cost-effective to practice Cosmos Palm.

    I don't think you need to worry about Shaolin Wahnam students. It is good that there is someone like yourself out there practising and preserving Iron Palm training methods, and I sincerely wish you the best in this area. On our part, we also know a Iron Palm method (there are many other methods), but some of us have chosen Cosmos Palm of our own volition, and not after being coerced by any senior.
    百德以孝为先
    Persevere in correct practice

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    • #17
      Originally posted by kungfu-photo View Post
      So Brother Omar you have been drinking the cosmos palm kool-aid too...
      I prefer smiling juice

      Originally posted by kungfu-photo View Post
      Once again your responses are that of a programed robot.
      I must strive to end this bad habit of mine.


      Originally posted by kungfu-photo View Post
      I acknowledge that I do not know everything nor do I proclaim too. As I have said there are many paths to the mountain top. However to mindlessly only believe cosmos palm is the only first-class skill/kung fu is absurd and may be to your own detriment in combat.
      Agreed. There are many other first class skills. But I cannot remember to have mindlessly believed only cosmos palm is the only first class kung fu skill nor posted anything to suggest I did

      Welcome, and enjoy your stay.
      When one door closes, another one opens.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by kungfu-photo View Post
        (usually takes two to three years not eight to ten years of cosmos palm).

        Yet another Shaolin proverb states, learn the fist forms first the learn the Iron skills. As in a fight you cannot always use your advanced skills often times you must use your fists. It matters not what technique or palm a person uses to preserve life. That being said I have chosen the path of the internal iron palm (my hands are soft and powerful) and I have a weapon with me at all times.
        This is why Sifu said Iron Palm is third-class kung fu. It is a weapon. Many, like yourself, choose to learn it because it is a powerful tool and is learned quickly. There's nothing wrong with that.

        For others, who don't place as much emphasis on needing to learn a powerful fighting tool quickly, and see more long term benefit in a tool that can be used for fighting, but also for healing, they may choose Cosmos Palm.

        I feel it should also be kept in mind that if Sifu, or a Shaolin Wahnam instructor, says you practice third-class kungfu, that is a rather large compliment - because they are saying you practice genuine kung fu, and not flowery kick boxing.

        -Matt

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        • #19
          Hi everyone that does Iron Palm.

          I have trained daily for six months in Iron palm. 3 months on beans and 3 on small stones in the canvas bag.

          I have begin some qigong to enhance healing, touching the sky and plucking stars. If pushing mountain is relevant I will add that.

          I soak my hands in jow and massage them throughout the day. Jow is on my hands for much of the day and over night.

          My learning has come from 'Iron Palm in 100 days", Sifu Lams "Ultimate Iron Palm" and from Yuan Chu Cai's book which I have translated from Chinese. Also videos from WLE.com and Tak Wa Eng. I intend to get some videos from James Lacey and Richard Clear soon.

          Ultimate Iron Palm from Sifu Lam is a great book and the videos are helpful also.

          It is my understanding regarding learning force methods such as Iron palm VS raw strength such as bodybuilding & power lifting that these methods complement each other.

          If you have read the complete book of shaolin by Wong Kiew Kit (which also discusses Iron Palm methods)

          The first level of KungFu is strength training, followed by technique and forms, followed by force & iron methods, followed by agility, flexibility and dexterity that result in speed.

          So a strong fighter can be beaten by a skilled one who can be beaten by an Iron fighter who can be beaten by a very fast agile fighter.

          But the ultimate fighter does not forsake any level of development. All levels are developed to full potential and such a fighter is the best.

          As for muscle breakdown causing chi blockage it must I suppose but there must be remedial methods to allow for recovery and enhanced inner practice.

          I consider it defeatist to simply discard muscular development for the sake of chi training. Best to find a way to enhance both together.

          As for my Iron palm I will be on to iron shot in a week or two. I also take internal hit pills from five photos brand. I do Iron Arm on my forearms also.

          Yuan Chu Cai's Iron Palm book covers bamboo leaf hand also and contains a great variety of exercises. I will be making it available soon for sale if any experienced Iron Palms want to review it - send me a PM.

          Its not available yet as I have finished writing but must get it edited and typeset http://www.ironpowerpalm.com/IronPowerPalm.html

          So yes if you have trained Iron Palm for a year or more and want to review the book let me know
          Last edited by gareththomasnz; 1 August 2010, 02:15 AM.

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          • #20
            Wow. Thanks for reviving this thread. The funniest part is that I totally missed "kungfu-photo's" colorful posts from 2009. Such drama! How did I miss it?
            Sifu Anthony Korahais
            www.FlowingZen.com
            (Click here to learn more about me.)

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            • #21
              Please Beware of This Method

              Hello Everyone,

              I would not normally do this but I feel inclined to do so for the guests of this forum. By reading further you will see why I decided to intervene.

              gareththomasnz's comments about iron palm in the post above me and the related website make it clear to me that this is not something to be trusted.

              In the past I had trained iron palm through the ku yu cheong lineage for several years under my sifu. Please accept me as an expert on this matter. I do not know the Wing Lam method or the "Yuan Chu Cai" method, and this post is not a judgement of these methods, but of this gareththomasnz's information.

              For one, my personal belief is that to sell the kungfu arts in the manner presented in the website goes against the very nature of the art itself. It seems that this man is out to make money by selling information that he does not know about.

              Iron Palm is a powerful art and must be practiced in the right manner. It is a simple art, but when done incorrectly or in an ad hoc manner can cause serious health problems. The slightest deviation of the TRUE traditional method will cause problems.

              For those of you who are not familiar with the meridian system: there are meridians that flow through the hand and fingers and back to the organs; certain fingers correspond to certain organs. If the iron palm is practiced WITHOUT THE GUIDANCE OF A SIFU, serious problems can develop such as...

              Blindness, Heart Attacks or Stroke, Arthritis later in life, impotency, and various damage to the organs.

              Practicing Iron Palm incorrectly can even shorten your life span. Please be careful and learn Iron Palm from a real-life Sifu who knows the correct method.

              I am sorry for this post but I felt I must warn people of this website who would unknowingly hurt themselves. Iron Palm was a closely guarded secret in ancient times and it was only until the past 100 years or so that the average kung fu martial artist even heard of the method, and many methods that are being taught are not the true internal method. What makes this person different is the blatant commercialization of an iron palm method which could cause insidious harm to the uninformed. Beware of false teachings.

              Sincerely,

              Daoist
              (15 years of chinese martial arts experience)
              Last edited by Daoist; 1 August 2010, 10:07 AM. Reason: spacing errors

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