Tai Chi Chuan vs Wing Tsung

[Casper]

How would a Tai Chi exponent fair against a Wing Tsung expeonent if the two persons had been practicing they respective arts for the same amount of time?
I am curious as to how a the Tai Chi exponent would deal with the hard and fast moving chain punches from a Wing Tsung exponent.
Please excuse me if this question is silly, but I have only practiced Tai Chi chuan for a year and my Sifu puts most weights on us learning the correct movements of the form and thus doesn't spend much time on applications and combat.

[Andrew]

It is impossible to give an answer because there are many more factors than just the Martial Art being practiced and the length of time (assuming, of course, that both Arts are genuine to start of with .... which is very often not the case).

Andrew

[Frogular]

hard and fast moving chain punches from a Wing Tsung exponent.

Especially if the wing chun practitioner is "hard and fast," since that certainly doesn't sound like genuine wing chun to me.
Also, compared to a "hard and fast" modernized wing chun, you spend a lot more time on basic skills and fundamental force training such that it takes a longer time to become combat proficient. But once you do...
I find it sad that so many hard wing chun schools teach the forms so quickly. Those who learn the other forms too early only usually never manage to stop powering their movements with brute force. I've been training for a year and my sifu hasn't taught me the 2nd form yet! (Yip Man's lineage)

[Casper]

I think most of the WT schools in Denmark teaches external Wing Tsung.
I once practiced it and we only spent very little time on the form.
What we was taught was to deflect incoming punches and strike hard and fast.
It wasn't very nice going to lections and some of my sifus were a bit violent.
It also became clear to me that many of the people who learned Wing Tsung at that school (which is part of a chain of schools in Denmark) so they could go out and start fights and win them.
This was one of the reasons why I stopped learning Wing Tsung and started practicing Tai Chi chuan instead.

[Frogular]

I guess that's the problem with the majority of schools. It's a pity you did not experience genuine Wing Chun, but then again, you've found a genuine Taijiquan school, right? =)

[Casper]

Frogular, I'll direct you to the post I made in this thread http://wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthr...3128#post13128

Instead of posting it all again

[Frogular]

Is it possible that your sifu doesn't teach beginners any applications while because they should be focusing on building a good foundation? Talk to the senior students and ask if they do. In my Wing Chun school, we only ever begin to learn to apply our techniques and forms after close to 2 years for training, and I'm sure they'll be a similar time frame for many traditional systems. Our first year and a half is spent purely on stance, form, and sticky hand drills. Boring, ain't it? =)

[Casper]

I know for a fact that at the moment for those of us who are still beginners (1 year of praticing) Sifu is more concerned with, as you stated, building a good foundation. When we begin to be more skilled I have no doubt that we will train applications, but I will have to ask my Sifu to be 100 % sure.

[Wudang Boxer]

Excuse me but I am not familiar with Wing Tsung. Is it similar to Wing Chun the art that Bruce Lee trained in?

If it is then sir your question can be simply answered. The question was if an internal artist trained at the same pace as an external artist what would be the results in an confrontation; am I correct.

Wing Tsung Iam gussing is a Hard external art, while taiji boxing is an internal art. The benefits from training show more quickly in any external artist who studies a Shaolin based art. If Wing Tsung training includes the Dao Mo Muscle/Tendon changing Qigong, then the power this artist could develop would be more then enougoh to destroy a internal artist.

I am a student of Wudang boxing but I am also a student of the Dao(Way)

[Andrew]

Wing Tsung, Wing Chun, Wing Choon, Ving Chun, Ving Tsun ..... there are many spellings used for what Sifu spells Wing Choon. There are also different variations of the basic style. The style Bruce Lee originally trained in was Wing Choon from Yip Man. But has been mentioned before, despite Bruce being an extremely talented fighter, he did not fight using Wing Choon. But this is the topic of another thread.

If Wing Tsung training includes the Dao Mo Muscle/Tendon changing Qigong, then the power this artist could develop would be more then enougoh to destroy a internal artist.

I'm afraid I can't agree with this statement. So much depends on the Martial Artist themself as well as many other variables. BUT let's assume two IDENTICAL people start training at the same time in absolutely genuine styles from great Masters. Both train EXACTLY as well and as much and for the same period of time. Also assume that nothing is added to either system and nothing taken away. Also assume that the training methods are traditional etc., etc., etc. This would mean that ALL THINGS ARE EQUAL which they NEVER are. THEN you can make a valid comparison.

In such a case, initially the Wing Choon exponent would probably win in real combat. This would be the case for the first 1-3 years. Thereafter the Taijiquan exponent would draw level and then, soon after, surpass the Wing Choon exponent.

Andrew

[Casper]

'In such a case, initially the Wing Choon exponent would probably win in real combat. This would be the case for the first 1-3 years. Thereafter the Taijiquan exponent would draw level and then, soon after, surpass the Wing Choon exponent.'

I asked my Sifu the same question yesterday and he gave almost the exact same answer except that he used Karate, white crane and tai chi chuan in the comparrison

[Wudang Boxer]

I agree with you WahnamCh. After about three years the internal artist would overcome his classmate, because as records have shown Qi when developed over a period of time through "Grand circulation" can be directed inside of an adversary's body causing injury to internal organs. Especially when an internal artist has began the long road of "Dian Xue, Dim Mak" training, he can overcome his opponent with one touch.

This is what distinguishes an external artist from an internal artist. And Bruce Lee did use Wing Chun in "Enter the Dragon" when the competition took place. I believe he was fighting a man with a patch on his eye. The technique's was devastating.

Hmmmmmmmm

How could an internal artist counter such an opponent like Bruce Lee.

[Darryl]

as records have shown

Hi Wudang,

Do you have further details of (or a link to) these records?

[Wudang Boxer]

When I was speaking of records, I meant any information that has been recorded on sitting meditation; which is the main power behind taijiquan.

According to Dr. Yang Jwing, Ming's book: Qigong for Health & Martial Arts-
When one has accomplished "Grand Circulation" he can move Qi from his Dan-Tian to any part of his body, or even outside of his body. Such training methods are holding the "sword finger" next to a candle flame; trying to move the flame with pure concentration of one's Qi. When one can direct his Qi outside of his body then he can either use this power to heal others or to strike one or more of the "108 vital points of the body: 36 of which are deadly.

Now if you are looking for evidence, then I will be glad to do some searching for you.

Peace

P.S. give me some time before today is over. ONe

[Wudang Boxer]

My research

This is a web site that lists certain points on the body which effects a persons
internal organs, & life. http://pressurepointfighting.com/pub...iji_points.htm
Many of these techniques are below the waist were most of Taijiquan's leg strikes
take place (for ex. look under "kidneys").

All of these techniques are a product of Fa-Jing manifestation(yang), and the energy(yin)
behind these explosive power moves is primarily Nei Dan Qigong (sitting meditation). There
are also Wai Dan Qigong. But that too is Daoist based, and it stresses relaxtion not
tensing a certain part of the body to accumulate Qi; like Da Mo's Wai Dan Qigong.

Here are a list of Qigong methods http://www.ymaaschool.com/training/y...ong/qigong.php
Pay close attention to "Small circulation qigong" and "grand circulation qigong", because
these are the steps that Daoist and Buddhists apply to there training regimen. Seeing that
Wahnam taijiquan incorporates Buddhists and Daoist practices this training would increasify,
your capability to use taiji boxing with simplicity.