Ultimate Iron Palm by Sifu Wing Lam

[Adam B]

I finished reading this book yesterday (Introduction to Shaolin Kung Fu hasn't gotten here yet ) Overall, I thought it was an excellent read. Sifu Lam is two generations from Gu Ru Zhang (picture below) so I'm pretty confident the methods are authentic.

The book had a short section dedicated to the history of Iron Palm as well as some stories; also has a section of basic training methods for different types of force. The majority of it, though, goes in depth into the style's two Iron Palm training methods. It covers specific warm-up, Jow and massage at completion, and how to deal with injuries along with the actual training techniques.

My favorite quote from the book:

Iron Palm, like all martial techniques, requires continual practice to perfect. If you are alreay tired of hearing this admonition, then read no further, for it wil continue to be repeated throughout this book.

This was the begining of chapter three, and he'd already said it 2x at this point.

It was interesting that while the method is obviously effective, they were quite different from those described by Sigung in The Complete Book of Shaolin (if my memory serves me correctly). The biggest differences I saw were that the striking is done in a rythmic motion: 4 strikes for each hand, then switch to the other hand, then back again. Unfortunately I don't have The Complete Book of Shaolin on my bookshelf, but I seem to remember the method being one hand at a time. Also, I remember Sigung describing pausing after each strike to focus the chi at the hand. Anyone who has the book, please correct me if this is wrong.

I'd love to hear some thoughts from anyone who has read this book or had some experience with this system/method. Any takers?

[Maxime]

Hi Adam,

I have trained Iron Palm from this lineage for half a year (twice daily); though my experience is indeed very limited compared to those who have practiced for many years, I take the risk to make a few comments.

It was interesting that while the method is obviously effective, they were quite different from those described by Sigung in The Complete Book of Shaolin (if my memory serves me correctly). The biggest differences I saw were that the striking is done in a rythmic motion: 4 strikes for each hand, then switch to the other hand, then back again.

In fact I am not surprised that there are various Iron Palm training regimen. Different warm up exercises, different jows formulas, different types of strikes or order of strikes. Different trainings can bring different results (Sand Palm, Bagua style Iron Palm, Cinnabar Palm, etc...) but in the end they only aim at the same goal, i.e the delivery of internal force through the hands.

Sifu Wing Lam even modifed the last strike (Crane Beak) into a Tiger Claw. Once a master knows and understands the underlying principles, he can modify or even create his own method without modifying those underlying principles. I believe that is one main reason for the various methods today.

Also, I remember Sigung describing pausing after each strike to focus the chi at the hand.

Focussing the chi in the hands is also a crucial part in Grandmaster Gu lineage. In each training cession, you start slow --even pausing between each strikes-- then you gently increase the pace of your strikes. After a few minutes, the rythm of striking naturally speeds up. In other words, you also pause between each strikes, but once you reach the Three Harmonies of Jing Chi Shen then your chi is flowing smoothly through your arms, and hands ... making your strikes faster -- an external onlooker might even think there is no pause, whilst in fact the pause is shorter, sometimes almost not noticeable.

In both lineages I think that the most important aspect (besides consistent practice) of Iron palm training is emphasized: relaxation.

I have no doubt that this method works wonder. After six months of practice my palms felt powerful, very tingling, heavier. Maintaining a relaxed Horse Stance throughout the exercise lengthens the time of your stance training.

But to me, the most rewarding result of Iron Palm has been on the Mind level. The simplicity and plainness of the method, the required relaxation and hundreds of repetitive strikes are a wonderful way to achieve a one-pointed mind and deeper level of meditation. Iron Palm can be a mesmerizing Water Buffalo method!

[Daniel]

Hi all,

Very interesting experiences Maxime, thanks.

Greetings,

[Adam B]

SiSook Maxime,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Focussing the chi in the hands is also a crucial part in Grandmaster Gu lineage. In each training cession, you start slow --even pausing between each strikes-- then you gently increase the pace of your strikes. After a few minutes, the rythm of striking naturally speeds up.

Makes sense. That again highlights the need for learning from a master; I definitely missed that in the book.

Thanks again,

-Adam

[Maxime]

Hello Brothers,

That again highlights the need for learning from a master;

Sure. Although I did not learned Iron Palm formally (I have never met Sifu Lam) yet gained good beginner's results, on the other hand (no pun intended ) I injured myself with another method. Furthermore, I doubt I could have reach the most advanced stage (steel bag) safely without supervision.

I definitely missed that in the book.

Because that is not in the book . If you got the chance, you can have a look at the video from the book. Very interesting.

I must add that I really enjoyed those six months of Iron Palm practice. But I had to stop because ... my neighbour couldn't stand the noise and resonance of the 2000 daily strikes anymore.

With Folded Hands,

[Antonius]

I've read the book, and I liked it. However, there were a few things that made me raise an eyebrow. For example:

While any good exercise and nutritional regimen will bolster the immune system, martial artists do not have any special defense against bacterial and viral infections, to the contrary of the claims of some proponents of esoteric meditation, Taoist alchemy, or qigong. We place such claims in the unreliable bin called, "anecdotal evidence."

This doesn't say much for their qigong. Actually, it's quite sad. Obviously, thousands of people in Shaolin Wahnam have direct experience of the falsity of this statement.

I spent some time on their forum, and read posts by the senior students. Nice guys, and very dedicated. Some of them have been practicing Iron Palm for over a decade. I've seen videos of their brick breaking, and they are good. However, I have to question the practicality of their Iron Palm. In total, it requires a lot of time when you add in the warm-ups, the use of medicated wine, the bag work, etc. I estimate that the bare minimum is 1 hour a day, just for Iron Palm.

If you spent the same amount of time on Pushing Mountains, you'd have Cosmos Palm instead. And you'd get a ton of other benefits, including a bolstered immune system. Or you could spend the time on One-Finger Zen, or Golden Bridge, or a combination of force training methods.

I actually tried Sifu Wing Lam's method for about 1 month. It was fun. I did it very casually. And I didn't even follow the full method. I skipped the warm-ups (I did my qigong instead), and skipped the medicated wine (um...qigong again). By the end of a month, my hands felt very powerful. My girlfriend commented that a gentle slap on her back stung her.

Eventually, I regained my sanity and realized that I was being a fool. I think that I could have achieved a powerful Iron Palm with much less effort than they do, but why? Why practice Iron Palm when you can practice Cosmos Palm? To me, it's like shopping for a Honda when you already own a BMW.

[Maxime]

In total, it requires a lot of time when you add in the warm-ups, the use of medicated wine, the bag work, etc. I estimate that the bare minimum is 1 hour a day, just for Iron Palm.

Yes Sihing, absolutely right, that is the time I spent during my half year of training.

If you spent the same amount of time on Pushing Mountains, you'd have Cosmos Palm instead. And you'd get a ton of other benefits, including a bolstered immune system. Or you could spend the time on One-Finger Zen, or Golden Bridge, or a combination of force training methods.

Yes, simple, direct, clear and effective!

Eventually, I regained my sanity and realized that I was being a fool. I think that I could have achieved a powerful Iron Palm with much less effort than they do, but why? Why practice Iron Palm when you can practice Cosmos Palm?

And as a bonus, you helped me to realize I was being a fool too.

Kind regards,

[Adam B]

Sisook,

on the other hand (no pun intended )

Someone had to do it sooner or later

Because that is not in the book. If you got the chance, you can have a look at the video from the book. Very interesting

Well at least my reading comprehension isn't completely gone then . I probably would have gotten the vid. if I was planning on training it; I bought the book mostly for informational /entertainment purposes.

But I had to stop because ... my neighbour couldn't stand the noise and resonance of the 2000 daily strikes anymore.

That's hilarious. My neighbor said I scared the crap out of her the first time I practiced 1FSZ at 9:30.

Sifu,

I noticed the same thing with the qigong. Two other things that "raised my eyebrows" were the closed mouth and the idea that minor injuries were inevitable when advancing to the next bag. I can't help but wonder if they're at all related issues. As their lineage is obviously genuine Shaolin, it makes me extremely grateful for the aspects of Shaolin that we've inherited.

Also, would your body be physically capable of handling an hour of pushing mountains every day?

To me, it's like shopping for a Honda when you already own a BMW.

That may be true, but you can save up the money for a Honda a lot faster, which explains.... (gotta love having fun with work equipment)

-Adam

[JohnJohn]

I've read the book, and I liked it. However, there were a few things that made me raise an eyebrow. For example: This doesn't say much for their qigong. Actually, it's quite sad. Obviously, thousands of people in Shaolin Wahnam have direct experience of the falsity of this statement.

<snip>

If you spent the same amount of time on Pushing Mountains, you'd have Cosmos Palm instead. And you'd get a ton of other benefits, including a bolstered immune system. Or you could spend the time on One-Finger Zen, or Golden Bridge, or a combination of force training methods.

<snip>

Eventually, I regained my sanity and realized that I was being a fool. I think that I could have achieved a powerful Iron Palm with much less effort than they do, but why? Why practice Iron Palm when you can practice Cosmos Palm? To me, it's like shopping for a Honda when you already own a BMW.

What is cosmos palm?

[8nsteen8]

-

JohnJohn,

Here is a quote from Grandmaster Wong about cosmos palm:

Question 4
What should I do after I have developed the Cosmos Palm to break a brick? Channel chi into my relaxed palm to break the brick?


Answer 4
You should strike your Cosmos Palm on a brick to confirm that you could break a brick and not your hand. It would be helpful to choose a soft brick to start with to gain confidence. Gradually you can progress to harder bricks.

Yes, you channel your chi to your palm for the brick breaking. Your arm is relaxed but your palm is terse, due to your chi consolidated there. If your palm is relaxed, your flowing chi may not be sufficient to break the brick. This does not mean you tense the muscles of your palm.

A good analogy is a water hose. If you use a water hose to break a brick, it is not the flowing water that does the breaking, but the momentum of the hose made hard by the flowing water. In the same way, it is not the flowing chi that breaks the brick but the momentum of your palm made solid by your flowing chi.

Striking an opponent is different from breaking a brick. When a Cosmos Palm master strikes a person, it is not the momentum of his palm, but his flowing chi channeled by him into the opponent that causes serious injury. The master’s chi distorts the energy network of the opponent, which results in upsetting the normal working of the person’s organs or system. There may not be any external mark on the point of contact, yet the opponent can be seriously injured. Hence, the palm of a Cosmos Palm master may be soft and gentle, and he may be unable to break a brick, but he can cause serious damage to an opponent.


Question 5
I am a Taijiquan practitioner and am capable of using fa-jing to send my opponents fly away with a palm strike. My desire is to learn Cosmos Palm as an addition to my other energy skills.


Answer 5
You have to learn it from a master who is willing to teach you. Of course, Cosmos Palm is not just for sending an opponent flying away. It can be used for healing, and it gives the exponent radiant health.


Question 6
Is the fa jing (striking force) of Taijiquan equal or related to the Cosmos Palm? Can it also cause internal injury when used on ordinary people?


Answer 6
“Fa-jing” or explode force refers to techniques, whereas Cosmos Palm refers to force. One can use other forms of force, such as dan tian force and Small Universe, to “fa-jing”. On the other hand, besides being used for “fa-jing”, Cosmos Palm can be used for other purposes, such as opening energy blockage and massaging internal organs.

A Taijiquan practitioner may use Cosmos Palm or other forms of force to “fa-jing”. Whether these other forms of force are superior or inferior to Cosmos Palm depend on the attainment of the practitioner in these forms of force. If he is a master using dan-tian force to “fa-jing”, for example, his force is likely to be greater than that of a Cosmos Palm student. If the Taijiquan practitioner is a student, his fa-jing using dan tian force is likely to be lesser than that of a Cosmos Palm master.

“Fa-jing” using Cosmos Palm or other forms of force normally can cause internal injury on ordinary people. But the “fa-jing” of ordinary Taijiquan practitioners, who usually use dan tian force, and the “fa-jing” of Iron Palm practitioners normally have no harmful effect on masters with Iron Shirt or Golden Bell. However Cosmos Palm masters as well as powerful Taijiquan masters and powerful Iron Palm masters may cause damage to Iron Shirt or even Golden Bell masters.

Due to the nature of the striking force involved, presuming that a Cosmos Palm master, a Taijiquan master and an Iron Palm master have equal force, the internal injury caused on Iron Shirt and Golden Bell exponents is greatest by the Cosmos Palm master and least by the Iron Palm master. However, if these three masters were to break bricks, the Iron Palm master will be the most effective, and the Cosmos Palm master the least effective.

Sincerely,
Niklas

[kungfu-photo]

Eventually, I regained my sanity and realized that I was being a fool. I think that I could have achieved a powerful Iron Palm with much less effort than they do, but why? Why practice Iron Palm when you can practice Cosmos Palm?

Brother I wanted to enlighten you in your thinking; as I think you have been drinking too much kool-aid. First off I am not a Wing Lam student (however I think there is many way to the mountain top). Second I disagree with Sifu Wong Kiew Kit and his teacher when he quotes him in saying “Iron Palm is a third-class kung fu.” (I have been training Iron Palm four years now). Fourth the breaking videos you saw over on WLE.com are either mine or my kung fu brothers.

Now let me explain, if Iron Palm is used to only destroy, break things, and kill I would agree with Sifu Kit. But it all depends on where you take it and what the intent of the practitioner are. Since Iron Palm is the grandfather of all the poison hand skills it is inherent to inflect severe damage. Hover if you also incorporate qigong and chi cultivation you can bring healing to your self and can use this internal energy to heal others with your hands/chi as with cosmos palm. (You and your brothers have been shining a bad light on Iron Palm).

Now on to more of your errors... Iron Palm can be trained in 20-30 min a day. It should NEVER be trained without dit da jow, qigong in not enough to think so is simply ridiculous. In Iron Palm training you are bolstering the immune system when your internal energy is rased up through the meridians from the dan tien to the hands.

I have to question the practicality of cosmos palm. IMHO to have the power of life and death in the palm of your hands is the ultimate (granted healing and creating wellness is preferred). However if you delude your student into thinking soft cosmos palms will save their lives in combat and there is no place for Iron Palm you are a fool. [I promise you my Iron Palm can do just as much internal damage as any one in your systems cosmos palm.]

[Omar]

I can see the benefits of cosmos palm training compared to iron palm training by the way you write.

Personally, I have never done any iron palm training, and so far not much cosmos palm besides the "pushing mountains" chi kung exercise so my experience with cosmos palm benefits are based on what experienced people have said.

Cosmos palm is in my opinion a higher level and also more flexible skill.
Iron palm can only cause damage. So can cosmos palm.

But cosmos palm can also do more and much nobler things then delivering a killing blow.

Like Sifu and sihing Anothony has said, I agree that it is much better to buy a hammer or such then spend time and energy developing iron palm.

I believe the "shining a bad light on iron palm" you refer to is a misunderstanding.
Having practiced this skill you might feel the need to defend it from what you read as criticism, as you have spent much time and energy on iron palm training and enjoyed the results you have attached your ego knowing or unknowingly to the iron palm concept.

It is better to choose to not do this, enjoy the benefits but also acknowledge that there are more beneficial things to train out there

[kungfu-photo]

Personally, I have never done any iron palm training, and so far not much cosmos palm besides the "pushing mountains" chi kung exercise so my experience with cosmos palm benefits are based on what experienced people have said.

So Brother Omar you have been drinking the cosmos palm kool-aid too...

Like Sifu and sihing Anothony has said, I agree that it is much better to buy a hammer or such then spend time and energy developing iron palm.

Once again your responses are that of a programed robot.

...enjoy the benefits but also acknowledge that there are more beneficial things to train out there

I acknowledge that I do not know everything nor do I proclaim too. As I have said there are many paths to the mountain top. However to mindlessly only believe cosmos palm is the only first-class skill/kung fu is absurd and may be to your own detriment in combat.

It's better to buy a hammer and never need it that to need a hammer and not have one...

[Zhang Wuji]

You raised some good points for discussion especially here, but it is a pity that your manners leave much to be desired. I thought you could have made your objections in a more constructive way and we would have certainly taken them for what they were. I found your post here quite helpful. But now, it seems that all you are doing is shouting and abusing those of us who practice Cosmos Palm. If there are errors in any post, real or perceived by you, you can correct them and present your point of view politely.

The way I see it, the catalyst for your tirade was Anotnius' comments about his experience in training Iron Palm. So, he gave some honest and personal feedback about his experiences and prefers Cosmos Palm to Iron Palm. Does that offend you? There is always going to be someone who disagrees with your art and your method. And you seem to have a problem with students agreeing with their seniors? Why? Had some bad experience with your juniors or seniors?

It is not a case of Cosmos Palm vs Iron Palm. What makes you think that in a real fight, all we will use is Cosmos Palm? Like you said, there is more than one way to the mountain top. To take out an opponent, maybe all one needs is a Plain Vanilla Palm? (patent pending, registered TM by Wuji).

[kungfu-photo]

Brother Zhang Wuji, you are correct I have used bad manners, for that I am sorry I should not have spoken in anger. Also correct I have taken offence in Anotnius (Sifu Anthony Korahais - Chief Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam USA) comments. I understand when he is expressing his opinions. However he is simply parroting Master Wong [http://shaolin.org/answers/ans06a/jun06-1.html] “Why is Iron Palm third-class and Cosmos Palm first-class? Third-class kungfu is only destructive, second-class contributes to health, and first-class can heal. In other words, third-class kungfu destroys life, second-class kungfu maintains life, first-class kungfu saves life. I am eternally grateful to my sifu for teaching me Cosmos Palm that enables me to help many people overcome so-called incurable diseases.”
(As does everyone else it seems.)

Also for someone to be of such a high rank as Anotnius, I find his knowledge lacking (and this surprises me) not just in Iron Palm skill but TCM and herbology (and he has attended acupuncture school). As I do not believe he is honestly being untruthful with his advice but he simply does not know or simply repeats without any thought what he has been taught or has read. If this distain comes off as arrogant or prideful again I am sorry but I cannot help how I feel on this subject.

It is not my intent to abuse those of you who practice Cosmos Palm. As I believe As Master Wong teaches it is a true treasure. But that being said cosmos palm is the long path. An old Chinese proverb says, to build kung fu it goes from external to internal or internal to external. Iron palm (or diamond palm) is building a foundation for chi cultivation/projection that is external and progresses to internal (usually takes two to three years not eight to ten years of cosmos palm).

Yet another Shaolin proverb states, learn the fist forms first the learn the Iron skills. As in a fight you cannot always use your advanced skills often times you must use your fists. It matters not what technique or palm a person uses to preserve life. That being said I have chosen the path of the internal iron palm (my hands are soft and powerful) and I have a weapon with me at all times.

My true intent may fall upon deaf ears; was to plant the seed of an alternate path within Master Wong’s lineage. As it seem all of his students/descendants have turned their back on some of their foundational Shaolin iron skills training. It seem anyone who asks a senior instructor about iron palm is quickly took aside and corrected and trained in cosmos palm. Or that iron palm is inherently evil and cannot be used with the same compassion as cosmos palm. Or it cannot be a first class skill/kung fu even if the practitioners intent/spirit is in a proper place.

Brother Zhang Wuji, (or any other advanced instructor) please open your hearts to my words and search yourselves for truth. Respond to me or show me were I am in error or may learn from your wisdom (as hopefully you learn from mine, iron sharpens iron).