Weapons set training - Baguazhang

[Shaolinfist]

Hi everyone,

I am currently practicing with a wonderful sabre which I purchased a while ago to prepare myself with some basic experience in handling a weapon in hope of attending an intensive weapons course in the future. I practice my zhang zhuang or force training as normal but have been filling my spare time with learning the form as best I can from pictures and video clips.

The single plum flower set is wonderful, but I am not very good at whirlwind kicks! I do not know which course I may be lucky enough to attend one day, but I am sure that familiarising myself with any weapon beforehand will benefit me when the time comes. Does anyone have any tips for me practicing this set on my own in preparation for a course?

The weapons which have caught my eye in particular are the deer horn knives. I don’t know a whole lot about them, and this may be a topic for another thread, but does anyone know if Sigung still has plans to teach a Baguazhang course and if so would these exotic weapons possibly be considered in the materiel? I have felt an affinity to these blades ever since I first saw them, but have not been able to find much information about them. I read in a book once that they are very good for disarming long range weapons, climbing walls, and fighting multiple opponents with circular movements like a hurricane! They can be easily concealed too making them great for surprise tactics, and there are even small ones that can be used as projectiles hidden in the sleeves!

So again if anyone has any more info on the history of the deer horn knives and Baguazhang then I would love to hear it!

Many Thanks
Phil

[Luo Lang]

Dear Shaolinfist,
I am glad your training is running smoothly!

I just can share my two cents! Practising the Plum Flower Single Knife is a good start with Weapons, allthough I prefer beginning with the Staff! Why, it's the mother of all Weapons which provides learning the fundamentals for all Weapons.

Nevertheless if you choose to learn Sigle Knife first it's fine too. The video clips and picture series are full of very useful material. You may start to learn it like a sequence training. having a look on the basic combat sequences and you will find how it's systematically progressing from sequence to sequence. At the end there is the final compilation, the combat set.

So you may start with basic single patterns. Like Black Tiger, Single Tiger and so on. get familiar with the single patterns in the relevant stances.

then cut the whole set into sequences and add gradually some more patterns. Add sequence by sequence and finally perform the whole sequences in one smooth flow, completing the whole set.

That's the Way I train new Sets. But there may be other solutions of course.

I don't know when Sifu will offer another weapons course but I am pretty sure he will do so in the future. Just stay tuned.

As for the Bagua Kung Fu. So far ther is a Shaolin Kung Fu Set called “Shaolin Traveling Dragon Pakua Set” or “Siu Lam Yau Loong Pat Kua Khuen” in Chinese (Cantonese), but it's to be said that it's different from Pakua Kung Fu.

If you refer to Pakua Kung Fu then you may ask Sifu in person, or maybe another instructor can provide more information.
If I am right, then I remember Sifu telling me about a Master Sifu knew, who was well known for his Pakua Kung Fu. Wheater or not Sifu could learn a special Set I don't know. But that said, imagining how many sets Sifu was able to learn, I could imagine that he knows about it!

[Shaolinfist]

Thank you for your advice older brother, I shall remember what you have told me. I will also consider getting a staff from somewhere and playing with that for a bit. I had no idea that the staff is the mother of all weapons!
As for Baguazhang, Sigung said this in his questions and answers series:

I have received some requests to illustrate Baguazhang combat application. I have not done so because although I have studied it in some details (mainly by studying Baguazhang classics), I have not practiced it or consciously used it in combat.

Nevertheless, I have some invaluable literature on Baguazhang principles and combat. I also have a hand-written explanation and illustrations on the “Sixty Four Fundamental Combat Applications of Baguazhang” specially prepared for me by Sifu Wong Chong Ling, a well known Baguazhang master from Hong Kong. I also knew another well known Baguazhang master in Malaysia, Sifu Leong Swee Lun, as a personal friend, with whom I often discussed kungfu. He showed me some intricate Baguazhang movements for combat. In fact I persuaded him to publish a book on Baguazhang, but sadly he passed away before attempting the task.

Baguazhang is a beautiful martial art. I shall try to retrieve the invaluable Baguazhang literature of the masters, which is now lost somewhere in my house, and enact the combat applications which the Baguazhang masters themselves described. In this way I hope I can contribute a small part to the efforts of existing Baguazhang masters today in various parts of the world in preserving their wonderful art.

This post can be found here

Many thanks

Phil

[Zhang Wuji]

I do know a little of two of the Baguazhang weapons sets (Deer Horn knives and steel needles) but I have deliberately not practised them, because of the need to have a strong foundation in the bare hands training first.

Practising weapons sets before mastering the palm basics and footwork would just make them another group of modern wushu demonstrations. One could practice them to be familiar with the form and sequences of course, but seriously, the 8 palm changes would already take up all the precious training time. And before one gets to the palm changes, it is absolutely essential to spend a lot of time on the walking (linear and circle) as well as other footwork basics. Learning any palm changes before the necessary foundation is laid is like learning the Tiger Crane set without ever practising the Shaolin stances.

I would just add that my impression of the Deer Horn Knives set is that it augments the palm changes. So, if you were to take away the weapons, the whole set really looks like a bare hand routine with modifications. In fact, the footwork and body movement are exactly the same; the variations are in the hands.

[Kingmonkey]

Hi Phil

I know very little about Baguazhang, but from my personal experience I can talk about having the great oppurtunity of learning a weapon set from Sigung.

Initially I didn't thingk I was going to learn any weapon set soon, and if, it might have been " the mother of all weapons" that I would have chosen. Then the swiss Wahnam family got very lucky because Sigung was going to teach the Traveling Dragon Sword Set at the Regional course in Switzerland last year. Before that I had absolutely no ambitions to the sword, but now I know how lucky I have been to receive such a treasure. Allthough I didn't have very much time to train it since then, because I have recently decided to come back to the very basics for one year, as there are stances, basic patterns and all the secrets of combat sequence 1-16, I have looked so much deeper in to the Shaolin Arts and have learned a lot of things for my training, for daily live and of course I took with me some glimpses of the weapon of the Masters.
Not being interested in the sword before that course, my sword, though seldom used at the time, became a trasure and is looked after very carefully now.....
During this course I once more realized how important good basics are, without having a fairly good foundation I would have had no chance following the material in the course.

What I want to say is; You may favour a certain weapon, or style, but sometimes live has different paths lined out for you and afterwards you'll find out that it was the best that could have happend. But I think we had asimilar discussion before.

About half a year before the course we were told to get familiar with the patterns of the set by the help of the Videos and picture series provided on Sigungs website.
My suggestion is, if you want to start and learn a weapon set, that you choose one that is well known within our school, so that it will be likely that you'll get the opportunity to really learn it someday, either from Sigung or some competent Sifu. Now on the Videos and Pictures some important details can hardly be seen if you don't know them, so I'll suggest to learn the patterns, the basic movements of the set as Sifu Roland has suggested, and keep your mind open for the details that you will learn when you attain the course.

From my personal experience I would also suggest not to neclect your daily training for the weapon set, learn it when you have enough time, if not do your daily training and enjoy it.


But this is only my personal view.

best regards
Pat

[Shaolinfist]

Thanks guys,
I appreciate the advice. What you have said is pretty much as I understand it, that the the stance training is the foundation and most important aspect of my practice, followed by the sets which I have been taught, followed by me messing about with my big shiny sword!

However I puchased this beautiful Sabre early last year because I like the weapon and have the intention of hopefully learning how to use it from Sigung one day. If I am ever fortunate enough to have the opportunity to attend a staff course, or spear, or any other weapon, I will quite happily and gratefully learn it and would hope that some of the skills I have learnt from practicing with the sword will be transferrable to this new weapon.

I have a lot of spare time at the moment and find that learning the form of the Single Plum Flower set from video's and pictures both challenging and entertaining. I have only been practicing the first part of the set so far up till the point where you move back from bow arrow to the false leg stance, but the chi flow I experience is really nice! Also my legs are really feeling the strain from all the whirlwind kicks and unicorn steps! Although they ache somewhat, they also feel strong and energized!

I am particularly impressed with the way the sword is used at the beginning of the set. At first I wondered why we would attack with the sword in the off hand and being held backwards. Then I realised that when I swing around for the second kick the blade will actually cut anyone standing around me! Amazing!

As for the Deer Horn knives, as much as I would like to learn them some day I am not clinging to that hope in any way. As I said before I will quite happily learn anything Sigung may be kind enough to teach me!

From what you are saying about the Deer Horn knives, it seems like you would need a lot of background experience of Baguazhang, i.e stances, movement and palm forms, before you can move on to learning the weapons, as that is the basis for the art. So I understand that the chances of Sigung teaching the Deer Horn knives is probably quite small! Luckily I have learnt enough of the basics of our style of Shaolin to be able to apply those to the weapon set I am learning, i.e moving in stances, hand forms, breathing and state of mind.

I am still open to any more information about the history of Baguazhang and its weapons though if anyone else has more info.

Thanks
Phil

[Luo Lang]

Dear Phil,
I am quite sure you can get the basics of the Plum Flower Single Knife by yourown.

A possible Way to improve your training is to find a Way to get in touch with some family members within the UK. I don't know though, how far away they are from your location.

[Shaolinfist]

Thank you older brother, unfortunately I don't know of anyone around Exeter at the moment who I could train with, but I will certainly keep my eyes and ears open for any opportunity I can to train with others!
I would love to attend the Praying Mantis course in Switzerland later this year, but I am taking my whole years holiday from work to go to my brothers wedding in Australia this December. Next year though expect to see me around!

Thanks
Phil

[Chiahua]

Thank you older brother, unfortunately I don't know of anyone around Exeter at the moment who I could train with, but I will certainly keep my eyes and ears open for any opportunity I can to train with others!
I would love to attend the Praying Mantis course in Switzerland later this year, but I am taking my whole years holiday from work to go to my brothers wedding in Australia this December. Next year though expect to see me around!

Thanks
Phil

Sifu Marcus Santer lives in Dawlish, if that's not too far....

[Shaolinfist]

Yes thank you, I have already contacted him actually and asked about the possibility of classes in the Devon area. Unfortunately he seems to be very busy at the moment with his classes in London, but hopefully he may start teaching here soon!

[Luo Lang]

Dear Phil,

I would love to attend the Praying Mantis course in Switzerland later this year, but I am taking my whole years holiday from work to go to my brothers wedding in Australia this December. Next year though expect to see me around!

Don't worry about that! Metting your Brother for his wedding is a to be well charished thing to do. It's a very noble one too! He will be happy for that!

If you can make it, then good, if not also good! No need to worry about!

If you need any help with your Weapon training, feel free to contact me, I shall give my best to assistU!

happy training

[Kingmonkey]

Hey Phil

You're lucky man! My Sifu offered you asisstance, grab his little finger and he gives you his hand, he's just this guy you know....

[Shaolinfist]

Thank you Roland,
I will surely take you up on your kind offer! I will wait until I get home tonight though as I started writing a response but didnt get round to completing it last night.

With Shaolin Salute
Phil

[Shaolinfist]

Many thanks again brother Roland,

Have you learnt the single plum knife set? Any tips on the whirlwind kicks and the reverse attack with the sword in the off hand would be great. I am assuming that it is an attack, though I am a little unsure of just what to do with my arm that is holding the sword as i spin around into the unicorn stance and up into the second whirlwind kick. Should I extend the sword behind me as much as possible?

Not easy to grasp from a video, even when playing it extra slow! Everything is happening so fast as you are coming out of the air to land in a unicorn stance and then straight up into another kick all the while spinning the sword around to attack people from behind!

I know that it is impossible to explain properly the technicalities and depth of such profound techniques but anything you may have to offer that would help me would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again
Peace and happiness to all beings

Phil

[Luo Lang]

Hello Phil,
Just a short question befor I answer!What kind of problems do you face with the wirldwindkick...