Eagle Claw and Modern Combat Q+As.

[drunken boxer]

Just thought I would share what I remember from Sifu's answers to my questions at dinner after the Eagle Claw course.

Hopefully Sifu Anthony S will post some more on this at some point as he has made some recordings of the q and a session.

I gave the topic a new thread because I think this is a group of topics that fit together and stand together in their own thread.

Basically I asked Sifu a few questions about combat in modern times at the end of the Eagle Claw course.

This is relevant to Eagle Claw because one of the main reasons I took the Eagle Claw course was because it was an art that was designed FOR the battlefield. And therefore by necessity would be effective against multiple and armed attackers. Though it was designed for a different time than ours I still believe it to be very relevant to our time and to me personally. So in the next couple of posts I will post what was asked, what was answered, to the best of my memory, and also my further thoughts on the issues discussed, and would of course love to hear other peoples comments so please join me!

Sifu said that it would be great to start a few threads about the Eagle Claw course, because as has been made very clear lately this is our Virtual Kwoon, and Sifu said that the further discussion of what we covered on the course would be beneficial for us who attended the course, but would also help spread the learning to the brothers and sisters in the Kwoon who could not make it to the event.

So watch this space... it won't be long...

[Mark A]

Good

Hey Folks,
that sounds like it will be a great q and a

Mark

[drunken boxer]

Upcoming Special Combined Intensive Course

Upcoming Special Combined Intensive Course

One of the main things this course will cover, is defence against multiple and armed attackers. In contradiction to some of what will follow, I have always considered this the MOST important aspect of my own personal martial arts training, it is the whole reason why I got into martial arts in the first place, and the reason for that is that I found this to be a massive problem when I was growing up.

I asked about this course, if it would be the only chance to do it, and if the material was covered in the syllabus.
I was wondering if I missed the boat, as obviously this course is for instructors only. Sifu said it would be very intensive! And reiterated that it would be for instructors only. He did not rule out teaching it again in future, saying maybe. He said that the material IS covered in the syllabus.

So thats fine, I will get to this material through the syllabus, and there is a chance Sifu will teach it again in future. I don't think I would have been able to make it to this course anyway, as my main priority to save for is Wing Choon in Canada next year, so I'm not disappointed, can't wait for Wing Choon!

[drunken boxer]

Boxing

Boxing
After the Stance Training and the Fajin, the words Sifu gave on boxing were the highlights of this course. In fact they were some of the highlights of my life!

Sifu made one point, which may seem very obvious, but was illuminating to me because I had never realised it was Sifu's opinion: He was talking about rules in martial sports. He said that Kungfu has the best techniques for streetfighting where there are no rules. He said that in martial sports, the best techniques are chosen according to the rules:
- he said that with taekwondo rules, the best techniques to use are taekwondo ones;
- in judo rules, the best techniques are judo;
- and (this is where my ears pricked up) in boxing rules the best techniques to use are boxing! "That is only logical!"
He laughed and so did I! Its so obvious! He said apart from the fact that boxers generally have no internal force and therefore have to throw their body forward to generate power, whereas they wouldn't if they had internal force, their techniques are the best for this situation.

I can't tell you what a weight this lifted off my shoulders, what a blockage it cleared for me.

When I have sparred with boxers since doing kungfu, with the gloves on, I have been disheartened many times because I was getting beat using kungfu, yet I knew I could have beaten the same people using boxing.
I thought this was just because my skills at kungfu were not good enough, and I felt bad that I hadn't trained them hard enough. This is a factor no doubt - but even then its no surprise that moves I practiced 1000 times a day for 10 years are better than moves I've practiced AT BEST 100 times a day for 4 years.

I actually felt embarassed about my good skills at boxing! And the funny thing is, since doing kungfu, I feel in some ways I've got BETTER at boxing! I have more force now for example and my mind is calmer.

Next up... more boxing.

[drunken boxer]

More boxing

Sifu hammered the point home further at dinner when he said to me that I could probably beat a "Class 3" Boxer now and that I could try sparring with one.

I said I had tried a while back and it wasn't easy. Though I said that this boxer was perhaps a class 2 due to his size, he was much bigger than me.

I told Sifu that we had sparred in a friendly manner without gloves and I had done quite well. But then we sparred with gloves and he had got the better of it then.
This really limited my techniques as I couldn't grip the arm, do a Black Tiger etc. Sifu said by putting on the gloves I was playing his game.

Sifu said that I should spar him in a friendly way without gloves.
I explained that the boxers I know are so competitive that in this scenario if they are getting beaten they want to put on the gloves so they can use full force.
Sifu said let him wear the gloves then, but I should not. I think I have only just figured out what Sifu meant as I write this... in this case, the boxer can go full force - but I can still keep it friendly from my side.

Sifu also said that if I thought a class 3 boxer was too much trouble now then I could start with a class 5, or even class 15!
Then work up. He explained how if I have a 75% chance of beating a class 14 boxer now and 80% chance of beating a class 15 boxer - if I fight the class 15 boxer first, what I will learn will enable me to then have an 80% chance against the class 14 fighter, and the principle applies all the way up the scale!

Sifu also said that I could spar with my friends from the boxing clubs I went to, but I said they were so competitive they were more like enemies!
He said I could get round this by offering to buy the drinks afterwards!

[drunken boxer]

Kungfu for Combat in Modern Times

Kungfu for Combat in Modern Times

I asked Sifu a certain question, and I was laughing at the time, as were the other Shaolin Brothers at the table, I said "Sifu, often in your speaking and writing you have said things along the lines of
"Kungfu was invented for fighting and is effective for fighting - but luckily in these modern times especially in the west we do not have much need for that.""
(Everyone was laughing as they knew what was coming) and I said
"But I have still managed to get in loads of fights! It used to be one after another! Do you think it is due to my Karma or my mindset?"

Sifu smiled said that yes maybe it could be due to my karma or my mindset. But he said though I may get in many fights here, the fights here usually involve a few punches, maybe outside the bar after a few drinks, you know, a few punches and its over - maybe people might even shake hands later.
That has been the case for most of my fights I admitted! One of my kungfu brothers at this point shouted "Just stay out of bars!"

Sifu said people wouldn't normally use weapons or kill each other here because they are worried about the consequences from the police.
He said modern western culture is a lot different from asian society 30 years ago, where there was no police involvement - and the fights were not only common, but brutal. Involving choppers, knives and even acid!

(We had ran out of time at that point, because next I planned to explain to Sifu that where I grew up in Northern Ireland during the period known as "The Troubles" was not exactly typical of the peaceful modern western experience in this regard! I am sure I can discuss this with him at a later time (and maybe later in this thread), but what Sifu said was still valid.)

As he was leaving Sifu said that now I could use my eagle claws to stay out of fights - it was funny he said you can just grip them like this and he demonstrated catching a punch with an eagle claw then tapping the guy on the head lightly with the other hand saying "now be a good boy" or something, ie merely chastising them like a child! One of my brothers then shouted "yeah and stay out of bars!" As always there was much fun and laughter, when you have dinner with Sifu and your Wahnam brothers and sisters, you know that is a definite!

[Jeffrey Segal]

Excellent thread, Paul!

[Jonny Say]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Paul, I look forward to more installments.

[Mark CH]

Wonderful Paul thanks for sharing these stories.

Best wishes
Mark

[Joan]

Dear Paul,

Thank you for starting this thread, you have a wonderful way of telling the stories and experiences. I am really enjoying reading it all

Mile Bhuiochas!
Joan

[Josh]

Dear Paul,

I'll echo all the thanks for this thread. What a cool course...you UK'ers are so lucky! I especially appreciated this advice from Sifu.

Sifu said let him wear the gloves then, but I should not. I think I have only just figured out what Sifu meant as I write this... in this case, the boxer can go full force - but I can still keep it friendly from my side.

It's so obvious once you hear it! I'm looking forward to hearing more stories and insights.

All my best,
Josh

[Jamie Robson]

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the interesting report on this great course.
Having spoke with several participants, it seems you were all taught many treasures.

I look forward to seeing and training with you soon.

Best Regards,

Jamie

[Charles David]

Final Session

Arriving early to join the Lion Dance course, I had the honor of being invited by Grandmaster Wong to participate in the final session.

To help the participants train and test their skills, I adopted other martial arts techniques, and I found that all the participants were well able to use Eagle Claw patterns to counter my attacks, even during the final free-sparring sessions.

Congratulations to all participants, and thank you to Sifu!

Still,


Charles

[YunXiang]

Dear Paul,

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences and teachings you have received from Sifu. It is much appreciated.

Also, I was fortunate enough to be invited to the last day of the course and had the opportunity to train with you. Thank you for working with me. You were an excellent partner!

Best wishes,
Mike

[drunken boxer]

Relevance to Modern Times

Hey, thanks to everyone, Mark, Jeffrey, Jonny, Mark, Joan, Josh, Charles, Jamie, Michael for your kind words on the thread!

I look forward to seeing and training with you soon.

Likewise dear Siheng, hope to train with you soon on the Warrior Project or hopefully sooner.

Thank you for working with me. You were an excellent partner!

As were you dear Sigeng, my thanks to you as well.


Sorry I didn't get back to this thread till now but I've been flat out with my day job! (Actually it feels more like a night and day job now!)

I wanted to speak about the relevance of Eagle Claw Kung Fu to modern combat.

As I said earlier it has never been my perception that we live in safe modern times. I always felt that having the ability to fight and defend yourself was the number one priority where I lived, much more important than worrying about passing exams or getting a job - who was going to guarantee that I'd stay alive long enough to need a degree or a job?

Once, my father and I had to take cover under the eaves of buildings to avoid falling debris from a bomb that went off a couple of hundred yards away from us (noone was hurt thank God). My school was also closed for a time due to a bomb flattening the centre of the town it was in. This is just to make the point that Northern Ireland wasn't a typical modern western country.
Yet relatively speaking, my area was more peaceful than most of the country. Thankfully my friends and family were unscathed from the conflict.
Hard to explain but you never really think too much or worry about this sort of thing - because there is nothing you can do about it, its too scary to think of, and you get used to it growing up and just mentally block it out

What I did always worry about was street attacks. In my youth I was attacked by gangs a few times, sometimes using sticks and pieces of wood etc.

Now here is the thing... despite what I just said and how it may seem in conflict with what Sifu said... rather I am making a case for what Sifu says. Here is why. Even though I lived in Northern Ireland I worried more about street attacks from common thugs, than about the actual military conflict. And in terms of street attacks, I believe Asian society 30 years ago was many times scarier - with much higher chance of being attacked, and with much more brutal attacks - because there was less concern for law and so many brutal weapons used like acid, knives and "choppers".

This in turn is not as scary as being in Yue Fei's day of actual battlefield combat, where rather than the occasional group of thugs there were in fact with many, well trained, well armed warriors waiting to take you on.

Eagle Claw Kung Fu was relevant then, but I believe it is still relevant now. Then it was used to keep us alive, it can still do this and also enhance our life. Also it can remind us how lucky we are to live in our time and not that time. People (including me) in west often moan about how dangerous it is today, or how bad the economy is - this art reminds us how lucky we really are!