a question about Wing Chun Kuen

[JIMMI555]

yes Andrew but wushu is a dance not real combat forms, and i only mention wing chungs 3 sets to show how limited they are

[JIMMI555]

dont you guys have more then 3 forms? im sure you do

[Andrew]

A great Master needs not 35 forms, nor 3. A single technique is enough to confirm victory.

In our style, to answer your question, I do not know how many forms (or sets as we call them) there are. This is completely uninteresting for me to know.


Maybe you could tell us what the aim of practicing the 35 forms is. And maybe you could list the 35 forms too (just for interest).

[JIMMI555]

first let me say this boy do you guys like to argue lol, well since im not a great master i will keep practising my 35 forms but maby ill just come lern your single tecneque so i can win my matches from now on lol ANDREW YOU ARE A FUNNY GUY MAN GOD LOVE YOU
JAMES

[stonecrusher69]

Good observations Ray,
I´ve the same opinion. But wing chun kungfu (which is a wonderful art) is debased today as the rest of kungfu, nowadays they often use a boxing style and thay scare their opponents with all these low kicks and continuous fast punches, and trying to grab your head to throw you and continue punching you on the ground without mercy.
Scary as it may seem it´s not so formidable if you can intercept them and use your stances and internal force,

Greetings,

Not all Wing Chun lineages fight like this. I would agree thought it's very common today. Also, wing Chun has internal training. It's taught right in the with the first set. The problem is some sifu's don't know much about it or teach it much later. To much emphises is put on fighting and how fast I can beat some one up so teh internal aspect is put off..

[Darran]

Also, wing Chun has internal training. It's taught right in the with the first set. The problem is some sifu's don't know much about it or teach it much later. To much emphises is put on fighting and how fast I can beat some one up so teh internal aspect is put off..

I agree Wing chun does have internal training, right in with the first set. I am learning this set at the moment. It is very simple yet very sophisticated (contains 108 separate movements) and to get the internal aspect right you really need to concentrate on breath and stance/posture and the minor but BIG adjustments therein. My teacher is not a fan of chi or internal force but boy does he emphasize breathing correctly and nuance of posture and stance as determining factors in the generation of power. Using multiple punches instead of one punch really does not make much difference - it is still ONE technique.

[Jamie Robson]

Wing Chuan Today

Dear Darran,

I believe much of Wing Chun today is losing it's essence.

There are many famous Wing Chun Sifu's who have big muscles, not naturally, but from excess buffalo training.
I also feel people have suffocated Wing Chun by stating you must engage, and often fight from the Goat Stance, which for anyone wishing to be a 'complete martial artist' is nonsense, why fix yourself to one option?
Lastly, chain-punching is over emphasized; why punch your opponent many, many times in the head, when one in the throat is sufficient?

Best Regards,

Jamie

[Darran]

I also feel people have suffocated Wing Chun by stating you must engage, and often fight from the Goat Stance, which for anyone wishing to be a 'complete martial artist' is nonsense, why fix yourself to one option?
Lastly, chain-punching is over emphasized; why punch your opponent many, many times in the head, when one in the throat is sufficient?

Dear Jamie,
From what I've been learning the system of stance movement is actually quite comprehensive, although there are not as many stances as in Shaolin Wahnam and I don't think they practise moving around in stances quite as compehensively as in your school - well that's a bit of an understatement.

Interestingly, I see chain punching as akin to the pressing or continuous attack idea that you have in Shaolin Wahnam. When you are chain-punching an opponent you are pressing in on him with your stance as well as your fists: a pressing contact is kept with your opponents leg or legs with your leading leg so his options for movement are limited, and if he keeps moving back then you are moving with him, pressing in all the time.

I did some sparring with with the senoir student of my wing chun school a few weeks back. I executed a black tiger steals heart and was immediately countered and punched. I was meant to be just acting as a street fighter but black tiger seems so natural to me now. Then I did it again but properly - this time I asked the way. He did not know what to do in that situation. I guess street fighters don't ask the way - they just shoot.

Warm regards,

Darran

[Darran]

I did some sparring with with the senoir student of my wing chun school a few weeks back.

The other thing I noticed was how out of breath the guy got - my breathing rate had barely changed from my resting rate. A real eye-opener that was.
Thanks guys!

[Jamie Robson]

Dear Darran,

In my experience, if a Black Tiger connects, then it is quicker to follow with Fierce Tiger, if that connects, it is quicker to follow with White Horse.
The sequence above may be a beginners option, but it adheres to the principle of ranges (short, middle, long).

Ideally, one connecting pattern is enough.
However, in applying safety first, it is wise to prepare for one pattern not being enough.
Even so, the opponent will not stand still (generally), so it will be more simple, direct and efficient to adhere to the ranges, rather than force the same range.

For compassion, Chin-Na or Felling is better, but requires greater skill.
Should the situation require multiple punches to the head or chest, as in Chain-Punching, surely one to the eye or throat is more economic?

Regards,

Jamie

In Shaolin Wahnam we do not condone any use of violence.
However, we are a Traditional Martial Arts School, and sometimes discussions have to be graphic or realistic.

[Mark A]

Essence

Hey Folks,
I thought I would put my tuppence in. I think that their is a few facts that should be brought into perspective here.

The most popular and famous Wing Chun system that is known and practised today is the systems that was devised by Yip Man.

Yip Man learned the original system up in the Canton province and then he distilled it down to what he thought was the essence of the system and what was practical for his situation, goals and objectives etc

(I have heard that he devised to be a short range system for fighting mainly in the back streets in Hong Kong).

This the went down to his sons, the most famous being Ip Chun. There is a abother son( but I forget his name). The way the express the style is very different. Ip Chun is much softer were the brother is harder.

The original systems looks very different from Yip Mans system. It has bigger stances, more sets etc.

As a system it is tactically flawed. While it may be good for close fighting, it is not so good medium to long range. They train stances that have the Dan Tien high so practioners are not grounded. And to be honest they are not that agile due to the way they train ( in the Yip Man system that is taught in the west).
They train the centre line princple, but I have observed that many practitioners hold to this princple way to tightly, so they are not flexibile mentally etc.

If you ever get a chance, watch a match between a capeoria player and wing chun player.

OK at this point I really want people to understand I am offering an opinion, not a critiscm. It comes down to the individual and I have met many great practitioner of wing chun.

Also incidentally studied in Hing Kong with Ip Chun for about two months

Mark

ps I agree with what Jamie said

[Darran]

As a system it is tactically flawed. While it may be good for close fighting, it is not so good medium to long range.

I realise this is an opinion, but (and excuse me if I'm being ignorant) I can't visualise being attacked by an opponent (a real opponent, not sparring) where his attack would not end up with him at close range. Just by the very fact that someone is attacking you means that they are coming in to you, and you can either go in further and meet this attack or step back and get out of the way (as in single tiger/black tiger).

In either scenario it is the defender that is imposing the distance and by extension the control of the situation.
So isn't the effectiveness of a style down to how well a practitioner can control and maintain the style's ideal operating conditions against an opponent?

Regards,
Darran

[stonecrusher69]

Dear Darran,

I believe much of Wing Chun today is losing it's essence.

There are many famous Wing Chun Sifu's who have big muscles, not naturally, but from excess buffalo training.
I also feel people have suffocated Wing Chun by stating you must engage, and often fight from the Goat Stance, which for anyone wishing to be a 'complete martial artist' is nonsense, why fix yourself to one option?
Lastly, chain-punching is over emphasized; why punch your opponent many, many times in the head, when one in the throat is sufficient?

Best Regards,

Jamie

I agree there is a big problem in WCK. The internal aspect is not reallly being taught. But it's not lost as some do practice the internal aspect of the art. Just like to find real Shaolin Gung Fu you have to search very hard to find a good teacher.

[DoubleA]

Here's a great video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7wDs...ture=rec-HM-r2

From what I can tell, they are demonstrating force, and immovable root from the high stance

DoubleA

[ivan]

Hi Ronnie, you Said Quote - If you ask me the hallmark of Wing Chun is: to go always forward, never ever go backward (not even a single step)!
Are you Sure about that Statement? 7 years of wing chun eh......oh well maybe one day you will know why that statement doesnt ring true! anyway happy days.best regards ivan