Non-combat applications/corporate realm

[Andrew]

Piti is right -- drunken boxer's post is extremely useful. Thanks for that. Please, anyone else with any insights, do post and share.

Andrew

[drunken boxer]

Because you'd actually be using monkey steals peaches right ?

Ha ha!

I have to say that hearing these high level and sometimes confrontational meetings makes me glad I'm in academia.

Too right mate! I’d like to get into the academia game myself.

I would also like to see more contributions and development of this thread, or even related threads about applying our arts and other eastern wisdom in business.

1. One area that particularly interests me is using some of the techniques that Sifu has generously provided on his question and answer series - for example he has explained techniques to help with:

- Creativity
- Solving Problems
- Making Decisions

All skills which would be of immense benefit in the workplace.

There was also his story of how he helped one of his students go from working in a factory to owning his own factory!

2. I heard through the grapevine that more instructors are planning to offer more courses for people in the corporate world. Wouldn’t it be good to share ideas and experiences about this on the forum? There is one area where I think I could personally make a contribution – I’ve worked in quite a few different environments with many different managers and know how difficult it would be to get them to give such ideas a chance. I also know what its like to be a cynic and a skeptic like them. However – I also believe I know some approaches which would work.
Basically I think I could help people advertising these course to “Know your enemy”.

[parrapiti]

Dear Drunken Boxer!

I think I prefer the term "understand my counterpart" better than "know the enemy":

When teaching or interacting through Wahnam Taijiquan the "opponent" is more your complementary opposition than your victim or enemy. If understood under this perspective, the "advertisement" issue changes from "how do I make them believe/like me" to "how do I make myself believe/like them", which will eventually get said counterpart to reciprocate my behavior and develop a business opportunity. This will not happen if I see/label my counterpart/client as my enemy. Taijiquan principles in action...

Piti Parra Duque

[Luo Lang]

Dear Brother Piti,
Great, great contribution indeed.

I am looking forward benefiting more from your experience and wisdom. Allthough never met, I feel like learning a lot from you.

Respectfully,

Roland

[yeniseri]

apropos

Most of my experiences pertaining to taijiquan are in the realm of participating in everyday events (tuishou) without becoming attached to a opinion (penglujiankao etc) and looking beyond to solve a specific situation.
Kepping the "I' out (no I in team ja ja je je) and getting to the problem.
Presently working in healthcare people with varying levels of egos and other things so results are more important that what I think.
This also reflects my views of various principles associated with qi and other 'vague' notions of skill where none exist. My own view is that qi should be relegated to own's private realm as religion and personal foibles.
In the healthcare field, one needs to objectively define and solve the situation with as much input (or lack thereof) from the patient and the medical professional.
Whether professional influenced acupuncture/yangshengong practices etc or viceversa, it is difficult to ascertain but each will have to resolve their own dilema, whether real or imagined and if they can tell the difference.

An acquaintance was aware of my teaching taijiquan and other stuff and he wanted to find out if yoga was appropriate for people with hypercholesterolemia. So I consulted the various journals, wrote an abreviated report stating that yoga, taijiquan, and others were the last stage of intervention.
Primary was the diagnosis of the MD pertaining to drugs, dietary and lifestyle change. The MD was willing to start with dietary and lifestyle for 6 months and if nothing changed then drug medication. My colleague, on the other hand, was so convinced that yoga and other non-pharmacolgical regimen were the only useful therapy that he missed the boat, as it were. I tried to be objective by getting to see the patient and with MD's permission was able to come up with something that was doable in the patient's point of view.
Patient was unwilling and unable to try the "New Age" tagged yoga, taijiquan and wanted to see immediate benefit so he went with drug regimen. His MD reiterated that drugs were only a temporary fix and that other measure in the patient's personal life had to be changed. Patient, some years later took up karate and appears to be enjoying himself and he lost over 50lbs with the last 8 years.
Even though I may be prone to parroting the many vague notions of foreign terms in Chinese and Ayurveda, many times I have to equate said terms with observable criteria to help the patient thriugh a crisis so terms like decreasing stress, improving health through abc actions, increase range of movement, etc. so that an perceived unaccustomed action or theory may be viewed as impossible and turn the patient off to any similar intervention!

trying to be brief here!

[Andrew]

Yeniseri,

What on earth has your last post (ignoring its nature for the moment) got to do with the theme of this thread? If you want to state your opinions (and you are most welcome to do so) please do so in more appropriate threads --- or open new ones yourself.

Andrew

[drunken boxer]

Siheng Piti,

Yes you made a good point.

I guess rather than say “Know your enemy” (which I just quoted from Sun Tzu) what I should have said is “Understand who you are dealing with”.

The reason I said this is because I have worked in close proximity to various managers in various industries – electronics factories, shipping, IT and have seen them being approached by people offering courses in non-conventional business methods such as psychology courses etc. The responses I have seen have been of two kinds:
1. The course/content is dismissed instantly, the person told to leave, sometimes aggressively, sometimes even laughed at.
2. The person is treated politely, told “we’ll be in touch” or such like, then once they leave the course/content is dismissed and laughed at.

(This may be just a UK/Ireland thing, some other countries are more open to such things I’m sure.)

The one such type of course that does meet with vague approval occasionally is “Team Building” type courses – often involving outdoor activities such as climbing, hiking or canoeing. There is more of an acceptance that these courses can help people in the team to get to know each other outside the office, to trust each other more, and build camaraderie.

So – I believe that in the UK and Ireland this may be the best way of pitching Taijiquan in business courses in terms of gaining clients – if that is the aim.

Please note I may be wrong and I am taking part in this thread to learn rather than to talk as if I have the answers! But even if what I just said is wrong or people disagree, I still think it is useful to discuss it, right?

Paul.

[yeniseri]

didn't mean to be confusing

Dear Wahnam CH,
I apologize for being confusing.
Thread=non-combat applications/corporate realm

1. My corporate realm is professional health care. Using tuishou (basic training) as a guage, when people push, you try to ascertain their angle (direction-where they are coming from) so you know know to respond so therfore know one's self is important so you can know your 'opponent'.

2. In scenario mentioned, I could have well used my authority to beat down and insult the other person. Per my example, I instead used objective criteria to show my a thing will work or why it will not and document it. Although it was not accepted, at least the person who would have benefited found a similar strategy to help himself thereore a WIN/WIN situation for those involved. Call it full disclosure but al least no one was left out of the decision making process.

3. Parrapiti's negotiation scenario fits in perfectly. I may not have used the word negotiation in the process but that was implicit in the resolution. Everyone had a say in the final solution!

4. BTDT. Many people get attached to the work environment and when they are away, they lose their identity. We think that it is our identity but in reality, it is just one part of many. Not taking things personally is a major life enhancing concept and I need to develop that more often.

5. I am in agreement with drunken boxers points that creativity, solving problems and making decisions are some points that I did not explictely state. Again I am sorry for confusing you and the other readers.

5. I am sorry I do not follow other people's scripts but I will try to adhere and be more cognizant of thwhat you mentioned.

Please accept my apologies!

[parrapiti]

Dear Yeniseri!

Thank you for the apology, but more importantly for the clarification. I admit I was a little confused, too, but your explanation cleared it all nicely. Someone in your position could have easily taken it the "wrong way", could have percieved Andrew`s post as a personal attack and could have responded with "force against force". But the way you "swallowed, neutralized and redirected" with your last post is a great example of Wahnam Taijiquan principles applied in a non-combat scenario. Thank You!

Dear Paul!

I`ve been professionally involved in experiential education for corporate developement for the last 20 years. Throughout many of those years I used Adventure-Based Counseling/Learning, with techniques as the ones you mention (outdoor trainings through adventure experiences...). In the last couple of years, I have discovered the power of Chi Kung and Wahnam Taijiquan to generate "simpler, more direct and more effective" results to satisfy important needs of modern-day executives - Stress Management, Peak Performance, Harmonic Developement... In our company we still have a specialized unit that runs Adventure-Based Learning interventions (Explora), but we have also been successful at promoting and implementing these "new" learning methods and their corporate applications through two other strategical units - Penta & Altus, with a full-time staff that is scheduled for many months in advance. One of the reasons to open this thread is to share and recieve perceptions about these applications to further promote the Shaolin Arts with non-combat oriented clients throughout the regions where our School is active. Everyone`s input in this thread is vital for the developement of this initiative, which can benefit everyone in many ways! Thanks for your input! We hope to continue reading about your perspectives.

Piti Parra Duque

[Andrew]

yeniseri,

Thanks for the clarification. That makes much more sense in that context.

Andrew

[yeniseri]

asi es la vida

parrapiti,

Thank you.

Although I took it as a personal attack, no vale la pena. una ilusion y nada mas!
Cultivation and refinement is the goal so better to live it than talk it.

dime con quien andas, y te dire quien eres!

[Andrew]

You are right, yeniseri --- just an illusion.

Andrew

[parrapiti]

Dear Andrew and yeniseri!

A "Relaxed State of Mind" has been highlighted by Sifu and many Masters as one of the main factors in winning a combat or sparring through Taijiquan. It is great to see two excellent examples of this in both of your posts. Many readers will greatly benefit from your non-combat applications of Wahnam Taijiquan through your corteous interactions.

Thanks for the lesson.

Piti Parra Duque

[parrapiti]

It has been a while since I wrote on this particular thread, so here is another entry:

A couple of days ago, when planning a Negotiation Workshop with my brother Juampa (Sifu Juan Parra Duque), we came up with a definition about negotiations that fits nicely in the topic that has been discussed here. There is an important difference in Spanish between very similar words, that most people don´t see: "Negocio" translates as business or deal, an interaction that seeks maximum value for most of the counterparts involved. "Negociación" is an opportunity, limited in time and space, to reach an agreement about a specific deal or business. This difference is commonly missed, and so people cannot take full advantage of the opportunity. As in a combat situation, it is not necessary the most technically advanced adversary the one that comes out with a victory, but the one that makes the most out of the given (or purposefully created) opportunities.

In a negotiation of any kind, one must be alert with all his/her senses, to see the opportunities emerge, yet relaxed to be able to use argumentative data calmly and precisely. It is not only a matter of having done the necessary research to have the right data for debate, but to know how and when to use them. Many times, negotiators use all their arguments quickly and end up empty-handed. A good negotiator needs to be alert yet relaxed to maximize the impact of each of his/her arguments.

The concious developement of a harmonic relationship between relaxation and alertness is a normal consequence of good Wahnam Taijiquan practice.

Piti Parra Duque

[drunken boxer]

Thank you Sifu!

I have many, many things to thank Sifu for but today specifically I would like to thank him for teaching me how to use Taijiquan in Corporate/Non-Combat Application, and let him know that I have had success in doing so!

On the UK Summer Camp Taijiquan Course, the penny finally dropped with me regarding the importance of setting aims and objectives.

Before the course I had vague aims/objectives but after it I got out pen and paper and had a serious think about it.

To summarise my situation, I wanted to go on an Intensive Course, but couldn't afford it due to two reasons:

- I wasn't careful with my money in the past and have ended up with debts rather than savings.
- I only get paid the rate of a junior software developer which isn't very much in my company.

I knew I couldn't get back the money I have wasted, but that I could try and get a better-paid job.

So I had the vision of getting a better job, and I set my aim to get a job as a Senior Software Developer.
I then set my objectives which were all the things I needed to do, all the areas I needed to work on to achieve the aim.
(In software development it is quite easy to compartmentalise the skills/duties of jobs in this way, but I think it could be done for any job.)

I then set to work. I am quite amazed at the extra focus and direction setting Aims and Objectives has given me.
I think I made more progress in the last 6 months than I did in the previous 4 years due to this focus and the way it has enabled me to ‘work smarter’.

Anyway, that was the process, I carried it out and today I got the results, I achieved my aim and got a job as a senior developer. Sifu gave me the ambition and also the method to do this. As always, all that was left for me the student to do was follow the instructions.

So once again, thank you Sifu!