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Thats a surprising combination question - quite different conditions -. I thought you might have meant "mental" problems until I saw you had written it twice .
I teach in a psychiatric hospital so might be able to help. Before I answer though can I just check what you mean by narcissistic disorder and what your interest is based on.
I don't have any experience of dealing with dental problems so I can't help there.
Narcissitic Personality Disorder is a more complicated issue.
The ICD-10 (International Classification of Mental and Behavioural Disorders publised by the World Health Organisation) lists it under code 60.8 - Other personality disorder - and it doesn't have its own diagnostic criteria.
The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association) diagnostic criteria for this condition, which is listed as an Axis II type disorder under the code 301.81, are (in brief):
sense of grandiose self importance
preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited brilliance or success
believes is special
requires excessive admiration
unreasonable expectations of favourable treatment
interpersonally exploitative
lacks empathy
envious of others
shows arrogant or haughty behaviour or attitudes
Based on these criteria it would be difficult for people like this to learn anything from anyone else, unless it was something they already believed in, which isn't really learning . Teaching someone Chi Kung would be difficult if they were displaying these characteristics. I haven't had anyone like this approach me for lessons or to get better. My experience in the hospital is that people displaying these traits generally think there is nothing wrong with them and that any problem encountered is everyone else's fault
Where does your academic interest in the condition stem from?
From teaching chi kung -perspective, I would say that successfully helping a person with NPD would require the person to:
Recognize his/her problem
Sincerely want help for this problem
If these two steps are taken, the third - seeking a method and practicing it correctly - will happen eventually, regardless whether the method is chi kung or something else.
But echoing the comments by Barry and Daniel, the path would probably be rocky. But no condition - mental, emotional, physical or otherwise - is insurmountable.
Best wishes,
Last edited by Markus Kahila; 12 October 2009, 09:34 AM.
I have worked with people who have what I would call a narcissistic personality style but in my six years at the psychiatric hospital I haven't come across anyone who had a formal diagnosis of NPD - either in my role as a psychotherapist or as a Chi Kung teacher.
My experience with the NPS's is that they will often decide to practice in their own way e.g. modifying patterns, bringing in something from a previous meditation practice they have done, keeping their mouth shut because it feels more powerful etc. I have found that, generally, when I explain the idea of keeping safe in practice they stop that. I can only think of one person who didn't carry on in that situation. If you want to look at the effects I have written about it on the thread "Chi Kung for psychological conditions".
I am really interested in how you have been working with these people. Do they have a formal NPD diagnosis from a psychiatrist?
Hi Daniel, Markus and Barry; thank you for your greetings and posts.
Barry, I think it's wonderful that you're teaching real Chi Kung to patients with psychiatric problems.
To answer your question; I'm afraid none of the people I worked on had an official diagnosis; despite this fact, there is no doubt in my heart that they were narcissists.
I worked very closely with one individual, using Zi Fa Dong Gong over a long period; this provided me with a unique insight into his character and how this type of Chi Kung (spontaneous movement) works with a narcissistic personality.
If you would like more detail, please let me know, bearing in mind I have never trained in Shaolin Wahnam Cosmos Chi Kung so my methods may be different.
I have only respect for your school and your Chi Kung style.
Hi Andrew,
Working with a patient or client that NPD would be quite difficult in someways as Barry has pointed as there would have to be a willingness to engage.
And for there to be a willingness to engage there has to be insight into their conditions.
As I am sure you are aware, in chi kung principles shen leads the chi and chi is the basis for emotional response( please remember this is very basic idea)
So if a client who has this issue you would need to look at how long it has been "hard wired" and how much of self perpuating blockage or framework it has become.
Something like a self fulfilling prophecy.
Then there is issue of perspective? And if the client has the capacity to be objectuve about his thoughts.
To me the first objective for a success would be the basis and boundaries of the relationship between the client and teacher/therapists.
And that would take experience and skill in my opinion.
It comes down to being able to show the client his issues and how they are effecting him and potentially others and hope they are able to be objective to take it on.
Another important point would be their motivation for them to change. If they have no internal motivation then the chance of success would be negligibile.
But with all of these idea's and concepts it is a very unique and individual process
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