Eagle Claw Course

[Mark Blohm]

Dear Virtual Kwoon Members and Guests,

We are here in lovely Brighton, England and have just completed Day 2 of Sifu's Eagle Claw Course. The sequences are beautiful and profound in their application. Although their are so many sequences, we have had so much fun in the course. Eagle Claw Kung Fu is a complete art.

Many hidden eagle claws lie waiting in the 50 sequences. And even though their are so many new things, our Kung Fu in general is greatly improving. We can feel it!

One thing we learned today was training our eagle claws internally. It was excellent! Because internal force is holistic, we are able to use our previously accumulated force for our eagles claws. I could feel the internal force flowing in my fingers, especially after learning our specific force training exercises.

There will be more to come in this thread, certainly. Perhaps we will have photos and some video as well.

[Mark Blohm]

Covering

There is one skill in particular that is highlighted in Eagle Claw Kung Fu. This is taming or covering.

Surely it is present in other styles of Kung Fu, but in Eagle Claw it is emphasized. It is one important way that our study of Eagle Claw benefits our Kung Fu training in general.

When we strike, kick, fell, or apply chin-na, we must cover ourselves, which mainly includes controlling with our free eagle claw. Proper footwork, among other things, is also involved.

We can refer to the great master of statergy, Sun Tzu, who said:

Defeat is what you hand to your opponent. Victory you create yourself.

So, when we cover and control, we are maintaining safety and ensuring that we do not hand our defeat to our opponent. In our Eagle Claw practice, we secure our non-defeat with our eagle claw grip.

[Molly]

Fantastic Mark. I look forward to seeing and hearing more.

Now, enjoy yourself

[Nick Jones]

Don't claw me, I'll claw you.

Hello

I'm also lucky enough to be particpating in this awesome course.

Day 3 of the course is finshed and I utterly amazed by the amount of material we have covered and the myriad of applications we have found and learned, not to mention the great brothers on the course and the real fun of attempting to escape (an impossible task) from Sigung's claws during demonstrations.

I'll give you just a little snippet, no more now though as I'm in need of a cuddle from my lovely wife

Unlike a tiger claw which is mainly used as an attack in itself, the eagle claws are primarily used to hold or pin an opponent so he can then be struck by one of the many different fist techniques in an eagle claw sylist's repertoire. This tactic of gripping then striking, then as soon as the opponent tries to escape or counter , changing the grip and then striking again, is very formiddable... A little monkey like me had quite a hard time, until I learnt to poke the tiger's maw, and other nice counters. With some practise, nasty big tigers should be much simplified...

Ok, cuddle time and sleep

[Mark Blohm]

Dear Molly,

Good to hear from you. Of course we know, but having spent recent time with Sifu and fellow brothers, I can reconfirm that our school is quite profound and unique.

I've trained 6 hours a day without panting for breath while vigorously training real Kung Fu. We use mind to lead energy, even in what is considered an external type of Kung Fu such as Eagle Claw.

It is very fun!

[Mark Blohm]

Hak Sing

Sifu has mentioned something very interesting in the past few days. A concept known in Cantonese as Hak Sing(克星), and in Mandarin pronunciation as Kei Xing. It may be translated as "nemesis". Sifu also had a more poetic name which I believe was "opposing star".

For example, the hak sing or nemesis of Boxing would be kicking, and of Taekwondo would be throwing. A hak sing could also be a whole style. This would be true in Kung Fu styles, because they are complete martial arts.

So, dear readers. Who can guess what the hak sing or nemesis of Eagle Claw Kung Fu is and why?

[Matt F.]

So, dear readers. Who can guess what the hak sing or nemesis of Eagle Claw Kung Fu is and why?

Sihing, I will venture a guess! As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the eagle claw is used more to pin and cover than to attack, so I would guess the hak sing to Eagle Claw would be Snake. The quickness and coiling movements of Snake seem very difficult to pin and cover. It also seems as though Monkey would be very difficult to get a grasp on, so perhaps that is the hak sing.

-Matt

[Bernardo]

So, dear readers. Who can guess what the hak sing or nemesis of Eagle Claw Kung Fu is and why?

Xingyiquan.

Why? My guess is based on dualistic thinking (and some flawed logic ):

1. The martial art genius Yue Fei created both Eagle Claw Kungfu and Xingyiquan. He taught Eagle Claw to the soldiers and junior military officers, and Xingyi to the generals and senior military officers... One could assume that the generals' art beats the soldiers' art, if all other things were equal.

2. According to your example, Mark Siheng, Boxing's nemesis would be kicking, and Taekwondo's nemesis would be throwing. So we have:

1. Striking --- Kicking
2. Kicking --- Felling
3. Felling --- ?
4. Qin-na --- ?

If we continue that list (using the aforementioned flawed logic), we have that...

1. Striking --- Kicking
2. Kicking --- Felling
3. Felling --- Qin-na
4. Qin-na --- Striking

... striking is the nemesis of qin-na! So, reason #2: Eagle Claw is famous for its qin-na. Xingyi mainly involves striking.

3. Eagle Claw has many and varied techniques. Xingyi has comparatively few and apparently straightforward techniques.

4. Force training in Eagle Claw Kungfu is generally external. Force training in Xingyiquan is generally internal.

http://www.shaolin.org/answers/ans08a/jun08-3.html proved very useful!

Bernardo

[drunken boxer]

Ah! Brilliant thread for a brilliant course! I will be posting my experiences of the course on this thread later, but for now just want to say thanks to Sifu for the wonderful course, thanks to General Yue Fei for creating Eagle Claw, and thanks to Mark and the other brothers for all the help and fun on the course.

I'm fascinated by what the nemesis to Eagle Claw is - I don't recall Sifu saying this on the course.
I remember he said that Eagle Claw itself was the nemesis to quite a few other styles (I won't mention them here in case that is what you meant Mark) but as for Eagle Claw's nemesis... hmmm. Well I would have thought along the same lines as Bernardo, that if Eagle Claw is trained externally then any art which is trained internally could be its nemesis, such as Xingyiquan. But then what of Sifu's Internal Eagle Claw?

I think perhaps Nick gives a clue to the answer where he says that Eagle Claw is used to grip, then attack with another pattern like a punch, whereas Tiger Claws are the attack themselves, so maybe Hung Gar?
Then again, Sifu showed us some very direct attacks within Eagle Claw too!

[drunken boxer]

Eastern versus Western Thinking?

Relating to Bernardo's post there is a point that Sifu and others have often made, that Xingyiquan should be superior to Eagle Claw because the former was practised by generals whereas the latter was practised by normal soldiers - the thinking being that therefore Xingyiquan is better because generals are better fighters.

Its funny because in the UK or Ireland most people would have the exact opposite opinion! The soldiers on the frontline are regarded as the real soldiers, the warriors, whereas the generals are considered the cowards who sit back in safety at headquarters directing matters! We often see ex soldiers enter professional boxing very successfully for example the legendary Nigel Benn, olympic champion Michael Carruth, or one of the few men to beat Muhammad Ali - Ken Norton. Whereas an army officer would be commonly considered too soft and pampered to become a professional boxer!

Perhaps this is not so much eastern vs western, maybe its just particular to the UK army, or maybe its more of a modern versus ancient thinking - because perhaps in the past the generals did have to be good fighters themselves. For example Genghis Khan was one of the first military leaders to run a meritocracy - people rose to become generals in his army based on their success in combat, rather than being born into or educated into high ranking positions - one of the factors in his army's ability to crush all opposition.

So when I first heard of the creation and philosophy of Eagle Claw and Xingyiquan, I presumed that Xingyiquan would be superior in terms of chi kung and health benefits, but I presumed that Eagle Claw would be superior in terms of fighting as it was taught to those who would be carrying out the actual fighting.

[Chiahua]

I think perhaps Nick gives a clue to the answer where he says that Eagle Claw is used to grip, then attack with another pattern like a punch, whereas Tiger Claws are the attack themselves, so maybe Hung Gar?
Then again, Sifu showed us some very direct attacks within Eagle Claw too!

I liked Bernardo's little chart, kudos to that! It reminds me of this wikipedia article on boxing.
I was thinking along the same lines as Sihing Paul that the many eagle claw techniques are a sequence of qin-na then attack. Thus any style that was more "direct" might be suitable? I was thinking maybe dragon style.
Of course, if movies were to be believed, the eagle slaying style would be Snake in Eagle's Shadow!

[Mark Blohm]

Thank you everyone for participating. I really do appreciate all the enthusiasm.

Bernardo is correct!

Xingyiquan is the nemesis of Eagle Claw. I really liked how you worked that out, Bernardo!

Sifu explained that although Eagle Claw uses powerful grips, someone prepared to practice Xingyiquan, like generals under Yue Fei, would have so much internal force that they would quickly release the grips and go straight in. Someone practicing Xingyiquan with insufficient force, which may be common nowadays, would have not much chance against an Eagle Claw Master. Yue Fei's generals had tremendous force, and that is why they were taught the simpler and straightforward Xingyi.

Can anyone guess what Kung Fu styles have Eagle Claw as their nemesis. There are more than one

Also note that Sifu said "controlling star" and not "opposing star". Apologies for the mix up!

[Bernardo]

Thank you, I'm glad you liked my thinking and I'm glad I was correct.

Can anyone guess what Kung Fu styles have Eagle Claw as their nemesis. There are more than one

My only guess at the moment is Choy-Li-Fatt Kungfu.

[Mark Blohm]

Here's a hint: Think soft.

[drunken boxer]

Ok so further to my brief post earlier, what can I say but AWESOME course!

Too much to go through every detail so I have three main points to recall:

1. As with every Kungfu course I have ever taken with Sifu, at lunch after the morning session I found myself reflecting that it would have been worth paying the money just for that one session alone!
The main thing, as always - stances! Again, not for the first time, Sifu adjusted my stance and the results made me feel like I hadn't even been practising up till now! The results were SO much more powerful after the adjustment. Anyone who wonders the difference between training yourself from a book, or getting taught in person by a master, would have their doubts erased straight away. Awesome.

2. Fa Jin in the 50 Eagle Claw sequences. Just incredible. I have of course been lucky enough to have experienced Fa Jin daily for the last couple of years. But again, this was so powerful that it made me think that what I did before wasn't even Fa Jin! And this didn't come from a formal session on Fa Jin - it just came from going through the sequences, just form practise - my punches just started shooting out by themselves. It was incredible. I don't know if it was Sifu's chi amping up the room, or what but this was amazing to me. And better yet, I was worried about the dreaded "Sifu Effect" (ie of going home and finding practise is nowhere near as good back at home). But on Saturday, the day after the course, I got up and started practice, almost nervous as I got to the Eagle Claw sequences - but it happened again! The wonderful feelings of relaxation and power as those punches shot out! I hope that if I keep practising well this will be a permanent change for the better, so much joy I feel now because of this.

3. Sparring on the final day. I had quite a bit of trouble on this actually, but still so much joy. At times was able to do some nice stuff, but on the whole I didn't think I did very well. Got tagged with a lot of punches and kicks, particularly low attacks, or false high attacks followed by low real attacks. This gives me an area to focus my training on for the next couple of months to see if I can eradicate these errors. It also gave me ideas on how I can prepare better for the next course with Sifu. Some of the attacks I was getting hit with, I may have been able to defend if I stuck to what we train in the London class, ie the syllabus material. But I wasn't quite ready to apply Eagle Claw counters which was one reason I got tagged a lot, particularly where we were using Eagle Claw against other martial arts. For the next course (Wing Choon) I plan to prepare better. Instead of just learning the sequences, I want to have some ideas for counters to MMA attacks before I get to the course, practise them with classmates beforehand, and drill hard those that work. Because I don't mind using Kungfu and getting tagged by someone else using Kungfu. But I must admit I HATE using Kungfu and getting tagged by people using Taekwondo, Karate etc!