Contract Negotiations

[Ray]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Next week on the 21st I'll be trying to negotiate the contract for a job. So far the only things I can think of are medical benefits (although I never see the doctor ^^ and enough pay so I can save up and see Sifu (I'm calculating something like at least a 1000.00 a month after taxes to pay for all my expenses so maybe like at least 50.00 a day five days a week^^
I would really like any advice on this since I'm pretty new at this and I want to come in prepared so Ｉ can make the best of the situation.

[Grimlock]

Hi Ray,

Congratulations on your opportunity! You're already doing well to think about what you want. Don't forget vacation time to visit Sigung!

I am by no means an expert in negotiation. In fact, this is something I need to work on, too. In my recent negotiations, the one thing I tried to get but couldn't was an extra week of vacation.

Fortunately, there are some experts in the corporate applications of Tai Chi Chuan thread! There's a lot of good stuff in there that is applicable to your situation.

Here are a couple of points I have found useful in entering a job negotiation.

1. The negotiation starts when you first make contact with a company, whether that is face to face, through a resume (CS), etc. I don't say this to make you (or anyone else) more nervous throughout the hiring process, but to help you relax. Since I know that my "traditional" negotiation skills are not that great, I can take comfort in knowing that my attitude, resume, and interviews all combine to paint a picture of me. The more a company gets to know me and likes me, the more they want to make me a good offer. In fact, I have a principle that I will walk away from any company that tries to truly low-ball me. This is a personal decision, but I take it as a poor indication of the way they operate.

2. That brings me to the idea of knowing your boundaries. Since I have a feeling you are like me in that you don't like to play games in negotiating, it is especially important to decide outside of the often emotional context of a negotiation what is and is not a deal-breaker for you. Differentiate between what you would like and what you really need. The true willingness to walk away is powerful!

3. That said, try to avoid force-on-force. Once an ultimatum is made, there is no turning back without a major loss. The corporate applications thread has great advice on making negotiations a collaborative effort.

4. Pray for guidance if you are comfortable doing so. I pray to Boddhisattva Guan Yin everyday, and one of the things I prayed for was that I would get the job if it was in my best interest and that the offer would be exactly what I need. And mine was exactly, and I mean exactly, what I hoped for, except I got 2 weeks vacation instead of 3. Then again, I have 3 weeks off between when I finish my current job and start my new one!


Hope that helps!

Chris

PS Read the corporate applications thread!!!

[joko]

Hi Ray,

Just a little thought of mine for your consideration:

1. Know the company; be familiar with the company, by getting as much information about the company as you can. Then find out how you can be of the best benefit for the company.

2. During each practice session of your chikung, near the completion -when you are at standing meditation- send your blessing to the company.

We are always with you,

Joko

[Andrew R]

On a somewhat unrelated note...I thought I'd throw this in here for convenience. I have an audition coming up for acceptance into Berklee College of Music. While it's probably unnecessary to ask, would Joko's advice about sending blessings to the school work as well? I pray to Guan Yin as well, and I occasionally ask for help in preparing for my audition, but would it be more effective to ask for help in being accepted?
Drew

[Ray]

Hi brothers,
Good to see all of you.

Differentiate between what you would like and what you really need. The true willingness to walk away is powerful!

Sound advice indeed bro. I found your four preparations and three arrivals post useful. Well this is basically a manager position of sorts where I would help over see the facility and rent out rooms, contract maintenance, probably pick up the phone too and do the sort of office work I've already been doing.
The main things I want is to continue to stay in Irvine, save up money for Sifu's courses, help out the campus organizations that I'm a part of, and gain more experience. There is that one issue of finding time to see mom and dad that's important too. Essentially these are the areas that I want worked out ^^.

1. Know the company; be familiar with the company, by getting as much information about the company as you can. Then find out how you can be of the best benefit for the company.

Definitely an important part of "preparing thyself". The job interview went really well and they need someone to mainly negotiate contracts and find people willing to rent rooms, etc. The only thing I can really offer are my office skills and bilingual abilities. I have to pick up the negotiating things as I go along ^^ (although if this works out I plan to start reading up and training for this with my two weeks notice time, thanks for the inspiration Chris)

2. During each practice session of your chikung, near the completion -when you are at standing meditation- send your blessing to the company.

Will do. I pray all the time. ^^; I'm God's regular visitor. Still it will be good to bless that company. I'll do it tonight for sure.

I'll also reread the corporate thread again. I plan to come in prepared with and use the three arrivals accordingly.

[Ray]

On a somewhat unrelated note...I thought I'd throw this in here for convenience. I have an audition coming up for acceptance into Berklee College of Music. While it's probably unnecessary to ask, would Joko's advice about sending blessings to the school work as well? I pray to Guan Yin as well, and I occasionally ask for help in preparing for my audition, but would it be more effective to ask for help in being accepted?
Drew

Hey Drew,
Based on my experience, pray for preparation and for acceptance if it eases your heart and then just be grateful and smile from the heart. Let go.
Sending blessings opens your heart and can really change things.

[Andrea]

Hi Ray

I like to look at negotiations as a friendly sparring The goal is not to "kill an enemy", but to achieve an outcome that benefits both parties.

Achieving a win-win balance (or can we say a "ying-yang harmony" with respect to the contractual relationship ) is IMHO the key to unlock a successful and enjoyable negotiation. You might discover that negotiating just like sparring can actually be quite fun and a very satisfying activity as long as you learn to move with your negotiation partner I am sure that our Taijiquan brothers and sisters can teach us much about this ...


With respect to the preparation - precious advice has been given already.

Know yourself and your interests- prepare your aims and objectives as Chris has recommended. Maybe you can be even more specific. You mention the salary: What is your minimum salary (1000+savings)? what is your optimum salary? This gives you a bandwith of negotiation (From minimum to slightly above optimum). You say time to see your mom ? Is it a specific time you need or just a schedule that is not a 24x7? How much time would you like? The health insurance? What should it cover? Anything else ? Like specific holidays (Dates of Sigung's courses in automn?) Equipment such as PC/Car? Expenses paid such as phone and travel allowances? Ongoing enducation? The more specific you are about what you would like to get out of the negotiations, the easier it will be to communicate those points. You might not be able to get all that you want : ) there are two of you - but being clear will give you a direction during the negotiation and set the boundaries.

Know the company and their interests as Sisook Joko has said. If you follow his advice and know what they need, are willing to offer (check their website and google) and what you can offer, you have the second half of the winning balance...

A few points that I found helpful during a negotiation are:

• Remember the company negotiator is a human being ...
• Remember that you both want the best possible benefits from this contract.
• Listen to what your negotiation partner tells you (sounds easy but sometimes we are so much focused on what we want to tell next )... it will give you precious informations about what he is willing to give you and why he might find it difficult to give you what you want. Maybe there are ways to address his interests and cover yours too ?
• Show him that you care about what he says. Ask if you are not sure you understand. This and the preceding point shows him that you are indeed interested in a win-win outcome and not just in yourself getting the best out of it.
• Try to avoid fights over positions, look at interests instead ...
• Listen to yourself while negotiating if you can - your feelings, your fears.... Don't focus on them but be aware of them. Just stay focused on your goal of achieving a win-win outcome. This will allow you to not react emotionally to emotional outbursts : ) And not let yourself be "driven into a corner" should your "negotiation sparring partner" try strategies of threats or pressure )
• Don't be a victim (being ready to walk out actually is one way to achive this )
• Most important remember Sigung saying "don't worry" and "relaxe" and just enjoy the opportunity to practice your negotiation skills Things will be fine whatever the outcome is ...

[Andrea]

To Drew

On a somewhat unrelated note...I thought I'd throw this in here for convenience. I have an audition coming up for acceptance into Berklee College of Music. While it's probably unnecessary to ask, would Joko's advice about sending blessings to the school work as well? I pray to Guan Yin as well, and I occasionally ask for help in preparing for my audition, but would it be more effective to ask for help in being accepted?
Drew

In my experience "higher beings" do know what benefits us best and also know what we are trully asking (That's why the outcome is sometimes quite different from what we have asked for isn't it?) Nevertheless I believe that it is for own benefit that being clear about what we ask is important.

To give you an example. A client I have recently worked with is a sailing athlete. I have shown him how he can visualize specific moments in the sailing competition to achieve better results (These are simple "mental training" visualization techniques, no high skill ones...) ... Some time later he called me, being very disapointed that he had not won the competition. I asked him what moment of the competition he had visualized ... he said "the start" as this is the most critical moment. He also told me that indeed the start was perfect ... I asked him to give the "sailing through the finishing line" a try ... and he won the next competition. (This is not an automatic outcome ofc but just an example)....

Back to your question ... I personally (but listen to yourself if that sounds right for you ) - feel that asking for the specific objective helps me to be honest with myself (about what I really would like) and have the right focus. At the same time I trust that Guan Shi Yin or whatever higher being you might ask, knows what the best outcome is and that what will happen will be the right thing ...

Good preparation for the audition Drew !

[mping]

Hi there,

My little piece of advice, apart from the other precious advices people have posted:

• Talk about the salary in the end, or if you have a reasonable guess about what will you earn, don't even talk. Interviewers hate people that the first question is "how much will I earn?". You will have to talk about it anyway, it's best to let the interviewer approach the topic.
• Don't underestimate you. Lots and lots of companies hire fresh graduates because they can pay them the smallest amount possible. A graduate is a highly qualified professional (it doesn't mean that you have to graduate to become one, but it sure helps alot!). So if there are alot of job offerings on your profession, feel free to negotiate the salary.
• Don't be afraid to ask a silly question (this is true in other areas ). I remember I didn't know anything about stuff like IRS, liquid vs brute salary, etc. If you don't ask them now, you might get some surprises...
• Don't lie or omit something. I believe that most of people around the forum don't lie anyway, but sometimes people feel the need to lie or omit something about an uncomfortable topic. In time, they will always find out who you are - which I suppose is a Good Thing(tm).

The best of luck!

[barrys]

Ray,

Lots of good advice here.

In answer to the implicit question in

So far the only things I can think of are medical benefits

.

You might want to bear in mind share options and their potential long term value. I know a lot of people who got rich on the basis of share options given to them many years before that they thought were largely worthless.

I dont know what stage of your career you are at but I think it is also worth including general happiness, experience to be gained, how does it fit as a step on a bigger journey and (more mundane) commute time when you are weighing up the whole package.

All the best,

Barry

[Ray]

Thanks a lot Barry sihing,
I am going over what kind of person they need and I'll be incorporating that into the conversation. A co-worker of mine seems to have worked with them before so I'll use the intel he gives me to make it so that they want to hire me and to convince them that they really need someone like me.
The meeting is Thursday and I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

Best,

Ray

[Ray]

Dear Brothers and sisters,
The company I was going to talk to just called me the day before the meeting and informed me that they are no longer hiring T_T. They changed their minds and wanted someone with a background in electronics and repair to help maintain the facility ie air conditioning, etc.

Still recovering,

Ray

[joko]

Dear Ray,

We are still with you.

Accept the fact that you are not having the interview this Thursday. It does not mean that your previous efforts were wasted.

Instead of taking it sadly, thank God for letting you experience this. There will be more other occasions for you.

Smile, and enjoy life!

Joko

[Ray]

Thanks Sifu Joko,
Your support means a tremendous amount to me. What devastated me the most was not this but rather my boss telling me on the same day that she would no longer have a part time position available for me come July due to budget, in other words I would be out of job by then.
I've been utilizing the focus in my training to find a job in one month (which is the amount of time I can comfortably last before going into my savings). The "non corporate thread" has been helpful and I'm determined to make it happen otherwise I end up working for my family again which is not very good for my growth because they treat me like a fairly incompetent child.
To be honest I'm a bit angry still I feel kind of betrayed because they didn't have the consideration to tell me sooner as if they wanted to avoid the confrontation, wasting a lot of valuable time for me.
Ironically I find bringing myself back to the dantien easy now. I can't believe I used to have trouble doing this. Still I find it exciting to be in such control of my destiny. I've come up with a strict schedule to maximize my time. I won't lose. I want to thank Chris (Grimlock) for showing me how it's done. I'll follow his example and achieve my goals.

Yours,

Ray

[drunken boxer]

Hi Ray,

Sorry I missed this post when you wrote it. Just wanted to say that I had a similar experience once. When I was nearing the end of my university degree, I had got a fairly good part time job working in the same industry as my degree course. The company had promised me a full time job at the end of the course. I liked the job and the people and thought I would almost certainly take it, even though I had realised that there were other industries and subjects that interested me more - this was a good steady job opportunity and not to be sniffed at in the job market of the time.

However just before I graduated, the company had a lot of financial trouble, and rather than take on new graduates they went the other way - making lots of existing workers redundant. So the job offer was off. I was let down, not by the fact they had this trouble but in the fact that they didn't warn me and let me plan - the people who made the job offer would have known that trouble or at least the risk of it was coming. I suddenly found myself jobless, planless, clueless... and hopeless.

But through that I pursued a job in an industry that I really wanted to get into. If I'd had the comfort of that job, I probably never would have went for what I really wanted. Left with nothing to lose however I went for it, and I now have a much more enjoyable and rewarding career.

So sometimes these setbacks can turn out for the best. Though I suspect it might be difficult to see it at the time. It was for me.

Paul