Interesting Southern Kung Fu Articles

[PM]

Awesome video of Sanzhan set David, simply awesome, thank you for sharing.

Our TSK is mix of the first video, second video, and even more relaxed way (like let's say Yang Taijiquan). Check out the video of one of my teachers Y.C. Wong Sifu (83 years young on the video), performing TSK - it is demo, usually it is done much slower - my TSK takes me anywhere form 15 to 30 minutes. His teacher Lam Jou, my Si Gung, adopted son of Lam Sai Wing, attributed his power and longevity to daily TSK practice - he passed away 102 years young.

Question: What is your bodyweight and how much do you lift? "Heavy" in my book is let's say 2x bodyweight deadlift, or 1/2 bodyweight one arm strict standing press (or bodyweight strict barbell military press).

[Guest]

Awesome, thx for sharing!

[barrys]

Dear Sifu Pavel,

Excellent video, thanks for sharing. Your practice approach clearly works for health and longevity .

I have some video of Sifu performing Iron Wire from this year's Summer Camp, which I will share when I get a chance to upload it.

I agree about 'all joined up' and that function is the important objective. When I trained the body-weight exercises I partly did it for body shape, which it was quite successful for at the time .

I have stopped doing those exercises now and just been focusing on Chi Kung of various types along with flowing force training techniques. Interestingly, I haven't noticed any decrease in strength but a big increase in speed and a reduction in a kind of 'congested' feeling in certain parts of my body.

Interestingly, Sifu taught a "Secrets of Internal Force" course this year. He showed techniques for developing the skills of flowing and consolidating force. During the Iron Wire course we used both approaches in the set. The differences were noticeable, as well as similar outcomes. Most people seemed to notice how much easier it was to get the flowing force 'right' rather than consolidating, therefore 'safer'. Both resulted in a lot of force.

We also played around for a few minutes with more muscular tension - not pleasant. Took a nice chi flow to clear it.

With metta,

Barry

[David Langford]

Awesome video of Sanzhan set David, simply awesome, thank you for sharing.

Our TSK is mix of the first video, second video, and even more relaxed way (like let's say Yang Taijiquan). Check out the video of one of my teachers Y.C. Wong Sifu (83 years young on the video), performing TSK - it is demo, usually it is done much slower - my TSK takes me anywhere form 15 to 30 minutes. His teacher Lam Jou, my Si Gung, adopted son of Lam Sai Wing, attributed his power and longevity to daily TSK practice - he passed away 102 years young.

Question: What is your bodyweight and how much do you lift? "Heavy" in my book is let's say 2x bodyweight deadlift, or 1/2 bodyweight one arm strict standing press (or bodyweight strict barbell military press).

Hi Sifu Pavel!

Awesome! I really enjoy watching other lineages do their signature sets.

As to your question:

155-160lbs depending on which way the wind is blowing on any given day and I have been practicing Wahnam Iron Wire since October 2012. I don't lift weights really so I don't have those numbers for you, the last time I was at a friends house though he had a 50lb barbell and I could curl that several times without much trouble.

One interesting thing I found is that even though I know from direct experiences that I don't yet have the internal force to out "raw strength" those who have tremendous external force I find that I can do manual labor such as moving a lot of big things and outpace people more physically powerful than me.

I've seriously considered trying to find a good kettlebell class to get a taste of stone lock skill as a supplement and mostly to cultivate a California beach body, functional strength indeed hahaha.

I'm sure more than a few of us use external methods as well as internal. I know Sipak Antony K mentions deadlifting and such in his articles. I'm going to be starting some external tiger claw training soon as a supplement.

Would you happen to have any articles on recognizing good kettlebell instruction?

Thanks! and Happy Training!
David

[PM]

50lb barbell is a toy :-) curls, ha ha, one of the most useless exercises, but that is what people usually do, right. The thing is - there is a huge difference between bodybuilding, powerlifting, and strength training (let's say for martial arts). Btw., that is one of the things I LOVE about strength training - it is MEASURABLE.

As for good kettlebell training, I can recommend few excellent resources, but the best option is of course to train under the guidance of StrongFirst instructor, preferably martial artist as well. Basic exercises, like Swing and Get Up, are simple but profound. Youwil be amazed, guaranteed.

Important thing is to consult it with Sifu first - some modes of training are fully compatible, some not. There are more ways to the top.

[Chiahua]

As for good kettlebell training, I can recommend few excellent resources, but the best option is of course to train under the guidance of StrongFirst instructor, preferably martial artist as well. Basic exercises, like Swing and Get Up, are simple but profound. Youwil be amazed, guaranteed.

I did get a copy of Mr. Tsatsouline's Simple and Sinister book---I'm enjoying it quite a bit so far. Can't wait to get into kettlebelling after I rehab my shoulder.

[Tim]

Dear brother Pavel,

Thanks for your input here. I know you train more with weights than I have done for a long time and obviously you are getting the benefits that such training gives.

Like Barry I ended up stopping training with weights when I started with the Chi Kung as I wanted to focus on developing the internal side and also overcome the various injuries I picked up, no doubt from ignorance of weight training at the time.

I now realise that both sides have their benefits if trained correctly and both Chi Kung as we practice and correct training with weights or resistance as you train can also develop internal force.

It's interesting, because when I was training in Karate I had no idea about the internal side, it never even entered our minds. You're lucky because you have trained both sides. When I started in Karate I was 8.5 stone with arms like spaghetti . My friends were all like Arnie so I trained hard (not smart). It built lots of muscle though and strength. I went from bench pressing 40 kg to 120 kg and from a 34 inch chest to 42inch.

Funny now when I look back because I wish I knew how to train smart. We didn't have the internet like now or so much freely available info.

A few months ago I started using resistance bands with my kung fu practice. All the movements were in sync with my kung fu forms and I noticed an increased in power. What I found really helpful was to chi flow straight after the exercise. Strength increase I do not know because I haven't tested it yet. But your question is an interesting one.

I haven't done the military presses since the gym all those years ago and I can't remember how much I could do. In terms of Kung Fu what would you say the benefits were?

With the knowledge of how to train internally I really can see how correct training with weights could help develop strength and power. I think the trouble starts when the people training don't know the difference, like I didn't when I first started with weights 25 years ago. (yes I am that old ).

Like I say, it's good fortune to know both sides.

Thanks for the links on the video David. Quite shocked at the tiger claw training that the youtube video went on to link to! Worth watching, if you want to know how to tense.

Best wishes to you all.

[Tim]

Karate Tim

Ok guys, just for giggles, here is a picture of me over 23 years ago





Karate Tim.jpg

[PM]

I haven't done the military presses since the gym all those years ago and I can't remember how much I could do. In terms of Kung Fu what would you say the benefits were?

Military Press/Standing Press

- full body exercise with excellent transfer to striking
- generation of the power from the ground up
- connection of the legs, waist and hands
- stretches the hip flexors, which are one of the major brakes of our kicks/strikes
- excellent foundation for the explosive lifts like push press/jerk - especially push press is very beneficial for martial arts
- one arm version (eg. with kettlebell) has, as an unilateral lift, even better transfer

Side note: Correct lifting is much more internal than you think, gentlemen - much more internal than most of the "internal" training I see out there. Terms like "brute strength", "muscular strength" with derogative connotation etc. are no appropriate at all. As I said before: There is a HUGE difference between bodybuilding, powerlifting and strength training for martial arts. Don't confuse them.

Check out this article of mine:

sfl-strongfirst-lifter.jpg

http://practicalhungkyun.com/2014/02/power-to-the-people-strongfirst-sfl-barbell/

And btw., I have been just asked to be a strength and conditioning coach for our Czech profi MMA fighters team, including the only one Czech UFC fighter. It works, like a magic. Old timers knew what they were doing.

[Tim]

Congratulations on your achievement brother and well deserved for the work you have put in over the years

Correct lifting is much more internal than you think, gentlemen - much more internal than most of the "internal" training I see out there. Terms like "brute strength", "muscular strength" with derogative connotation etc. are no appropriate at all.

I agree with you.

Before I started training with weights I was very relaxed and fast, but not strong. There was however an inner strength I was able to tap into that surprised many people when they sparred with me. I would not call this internal force like I know it now but the inner strength everyone has the potential to tap in to.

After a period of weight training I noticed a big increase in my strength but a decrease in my relaxation and a detrimental effect on my speed. I was prepared to accept the trade off at that time for strength and power. What I have come to realise is that the training I was doing at that time was the brute strength and muscular strength. So it was no wonder that my speed was effected (and my moods) because I was locking up my energy flow. Powerful yes, but it was like dead energy.

This is the polar opposite of my experience a few years ago when were taught how to use weights for Choy Li Fatt training. The experience as a result of that training was increased power and speed. So I know from first hand experience that as long as the energy is not locked inside the muscles that power and speed can be increased through correct training as you have mentioned.

When I say I agree with you I mean I have also seen a lot of so called internal training that is actually external training and 'external training' that is internal. Actually I don't like the terms internal and external too much because they make it sound like two different camps, when that is not always true. It then gets into the pointless arguments of mine is better than yours. But for lack of better terms I do use them. I think I prefer the 'soft' and 'hard' method. Even that doesn't give a true reflection of the type of training that fits in between the two. Like training the body and strength and training the energy and mind. Then there is the category where it increases power, fitness, longevity and spiritual fulfilment.

Shaolin was and is to an extent known as external and Taijiquan as internal (as we know). And then there is Chi kung, which is often put as a separate category. Having trained in martial arts for over 25 years through a number of different systems I see all the training as different ends and parts of the whole. All training develops energy, even walking does! The difference is whether or not the training is locking up the energy during and after or developing an increase in volume and flow.

The Choy Li Fatt training with weights and my resistance bands I know increased volume and flow.

When I say that I am that old I do not mean it in a bad way, that I am too old. In fact I now feel faster, more powerful, happier and more alive than ever before.

So I can definitely see the merits of your training and it is good to listen to your experiences of the soft and hard approach (relatively speaking).

But like you say about external being more internal than people think, internal can also be a lot more internal than people could even imagine! BTW, this is not a this is better than that, purely a statement of fact that like your training, unless people have trained it correctly with spread and depth then they are merely conjecturing.

Look forward to hearing more about your teaching the MMA

[barrys]

Dear Sifu Pavel,

And btw., I have been just asked to be a strength and conditioning coach for our Czech profi MMA fighters team, including the only one Czech UFC fighter. It works, like a magic. Old timers knew what they were doing.

Congratulations . It is great that these arts are being passed on. Sure they will get a lot of benefit from working with you.

I have been looking back through the thread and some of the variety of body shapes . For instance this practitioner you posted earlier could almost be practising a different art to your Sifu Y.C. Wong - based on the beautiful video you shared and the outcome of their respective body shapes and size of muscle.
hung-ga-kyun-four-secret-arrivals-hands-chiu-chi-ling.jpg

In our school, based on Sifu's and our own experience, we prefer the outcome of your Sifu - without big muscles, which can interfere with Chi Flow, a key element of building and manifesting internal force.

With metta,

Barry

[drunken boxer]

I have been just asked to be a strength and conditioning coach for our Czech profi MMA fighters team, including the only one Czech UFC fighter.

Congratulations Sifu Pavel, this must be the closest kung fu has got to MMA so far. Have you met the team yet? How are their fighting skills compared to your own - would you have a chance? If you had to spar with them under their rules would you use your Hung Gar or would you use kickboxing/jujitsu?

I've never sparred an MMA fighter (I'd get killed) but up until a couple of years ago I used to spar sometimes with boxers and kickboxers. I tried to use kungfu but usually I'd get pummelled and end up resorting to boxing. I used to beat myself up for that, but I remember on the Eagle Claw course Sifu said "Boxing techniques are the best to use under boxing rules, judo techniques are the best to use under judo rules - that is only logical."

I wonder if it's a bit like the Roger Bannister syndrome. No one had ever run a mile in under 4 minutes, and the received wisdom was that it couldn't be done. Then Roger Bannister did it, and opened the floodgates - within a short space of time many many people ran a mile in under 4 minutes. If only someone could demonstrate kung fu working in a high profile competition, maybe they would open the floodgates in a similar way?

[JasD]

Karate Tim is quite cool

[Maxime]

Interesting discussion about Iron Wire.

[PM]

Barry - exactly - some of the Hung Ga Kyun practitioners fell into the trap of bodybuilding, even some of the old, famous masters, and their Gung Fu got much much worse.

That is why I say - there is a difference between bodybuilding and strength training. Bodybuilding is the worst thing that ever happened to strength training. I am not a heavily muscled person, but trust me, I am strong :-)

Drunken boxer - i will coach just the strength and conditioning part. MMA is a sport specific thing, the guys have whole team of trainers - special trainer for stand up fighting, wrestling, ground game etc. They are professional fighters, national champions and also one UFC fighter. Although i have trained some MMA as well, my art is different - not a sport discipline, but reality-based self-protection. Anyway, there is probably a reason why they have asked me, and yes, we have often cross-sparring sessions with the guys of various disciplines, and we are doing very well.

Anyway, same but different - check out this article http://practicalhungkyun.com/2014/05...ga-kyun-video/