What is genuine, traditional Taijiquan?

[wifiabc]

This is genuine Taijiquan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tUzXFLZH6o

[Baguamonk1]

I am a 5 yr old girl, posting an internet forum wearing a baby bib and have no kung fu skill whatsoever! I just came here to give you guys a hard time. I am actually on a bit of "downtime" since I just moved and am having trouble adjusting. But I will once my internet/tech-fu is sufficient I wouldn't know the first thing about recording a video and then sharing it, I am no teacher, I will be a student probably till I'm 60 yrs old, heh

Well I did not know much of the challenge, but I don't think anyone really comes out on "top" when it comes to an argument on the internet. Dont worry about it, I don't think anyone thinks less of either of you because of it, you guys defended yourself incredibly well, and I think he brought the points he wanted to across. Doesn't matter anymore.

[Ronan]

But I will once my internet/tech-fu is sufficient

Is that a promise to post a video of yourself demonstrating Kungfu? I can't wait, I've never seen a five year old girl do Kungfu

[Liokault]

I hope Grandmaster Toshitsugu Takamatsu isn't reading this. What you, I assume, considered a joke, is considered a massive insult in the East --- and not one you can laugh your way out of "oh it was just a joke".

Andrew

If he is, I am sure that he will post an article in the appropriate newspaper asking for an apology.

[Mark Blohm]

If he is, I am sure that he will post an article in the appropriate newspaper asking for an apology.

Incredible. Rude and disrespectful yet again.

[Baguamonk1]

No it is not a promise. I plan on stopping the posts. So that means by the time I do, I probably won't be around. Too much berating and people constantly misquoting, skeweing and putting words in my mouth as a launching pad for their own Heroic posts. I only used the points Kaitan brought across because I thought that people were misinterpreting it.

I think pretty much everything that I have wanted to said has been said, I never said I didn't believe in Chi, or that I disagreed with you guys. Apparently sharing different opinions other than what you guys have been taught is some sort of Blasphemy, worthy of constant barrage of insults, berating, and deconstruction of posts completely out of context. Again I do not mind because I know where you guys are coming from, and I understand.

I can see why Kaitan "withdrew."

Hey guys go the new Thread about me!!! It will give you an opportunity to take bits and pieces of posts which I have already tried to clarify or talk about in other threads, and put your own "spin" on them! This way none of the random people that happen to stumble upon this ultra-famous forum (more famous than newspapers and magazines..) won't be misguided and disillusioned by my blasphemous views and ignorant hear-say. Weed out the ignorant I say

Here is a link for ya guys, let the gang-banging begin:http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5512

[Darryl]

Dear Baguamonk,

The thread you link to isn't a personal attack. Ronan asked you to validate your comments with a measurement of your own accomplishments, but you have refused to do so. Instead of directly saying 'no', you hide behind humour and indignation, denouncing our observations as persecution. Your writings are already enough to demonstrate your ignorance, so a video would help you more than us.

I do not mind because I know where you guys are coming from, and I understand

No you don't. If you did, you wouldn't see Jordan's comments as either a personal attack, or a further discussion about Bruce Lee.

[Ronan]

No it is not a promise. I plan on stopping the posts. So that means by the time I do, I probably won't be around.

Well then unfortunately, like others before you, none of your lenthy posts have any weight to them. No one wants to hear from a "Kungfu know it all" who doesn't actualy practice any Martial Art or who is at a very low level yet talks as if they were a Master. Without a video or even some pictures, how are we to know that you aren't an over weight blob sitting behind your keyboard with a packet of Cheesy Puffs putting the Martial Arts world to rights?

I don't understand what all the fuss is about. If someone wanted a picture of me doing Kungfu I could post one in under two minutes, and I'm terrible with computers! Is it really that hard to post a picture? Atleast something showing that you even practice Kungfu so we can take you seriously. We're not asking you to move mountains. The only logical explanation I can think of is that you must have something to hide.

You've done a lot of talk about how stances shouldn't be used in real fighting. Why don't you start by posting some pictures of the type of stances and applications you think should be used in fighting? I mean pictures of yourself and a partner. That would be useful.

If you don't want to that's fine, but don't expect to be taken seriously just on the strength of your words alone (which have already been shown to be riddled with ignorance when it comes to Traditional Chinese Martial Arts). As Sifu Stier recently sai "talk is cheap", even though he likes to do a lot of it.

Best wishes

Ronan

[Baguamonk1]

Not everyone takes pictures, or video-tapes everything they do. If I had pictures, believe me I would, and a picture is of no value in skill.

And I'm not a master, nor a know-it-all, I share opinions on a internet forum, nothing else. I have never condemned or insulted anyone, unlike you guys.It is easy for an entire internet forum of paid teachers or perhaps students to jump on one person, for who knows what reasons. I find it this attitude more suspect then anything you guys claim I am. Why do you have to keep taking my posts out of context, filling it in with your own opinions of what I am trying to say, and even dedicate a thread for it? Are you really that insecure? I don't think anything I have posted disagrees with Wahnam principles, maybe in your eyes, but not in mine, and that is why I have continued posting sometimes-to clarify what I mean. It is like people of other religions who claim that other people of other religions are going to hell because their views don't match theirs 100%. But in my opinion it is a symbol of insecury, for the need to cling onto something for self-preservation. I am not trying to do any of this, I just come to CMA forum to talk about CMA and people seem to think I am contradicting for some evil conspiarcy or something...

I am not a master or a supreme gong fu expert, and I never claimed I have been. Just because I can type and elaborate my posts, different opinions, does not mean that I am putting myself above anybody, I have apologized and even re-clarified alot of what I mean because I think it is being taken the wrong way.

Again, skewing and misinterpretation of what I have said. I never said stances could not be used in fighting....I said that it does not have to look picture-perfect. THEY CAN, but they don't HAVE to be....

This isa loose a example of how things seem to be going
I say "Stances don't have to be picture perfect in application"
Then someone says "Wow baguamonk, you are very ignorant, you don't even think stances can be used for real fighting, Bah, clearly you are no match for our gong fu/ you are very ignorant!!!"

you hide behind humour and indignation

And the various attacks against me are not...????

See I can quote, disregard everything else you were saying, and misinterpret your words too.

[Darryl]

Another simplification

Baguamonk,

If you only wrote a few posts, I wouldn't bother with you. Since you post a lot, you get a lot of replies. It's not rocket science.

[Baguamonk1]

Yeah I know

Another simplification
"Just shut up and leave!"
Or
"Don't post unless it agrees 100% with our views, or according to the rocket science that is internet posting, people will gang up on you, create threads, and make you look really really bad..Oh and we'll also call you someone with no skill, ignorant, and no grasp of martial arts,maybe throw in some indirect internet bum comments with cheesy puffs comments, there, is that good enough incentive "



I have pretty much said everything that I wanted to say. From now on, I think if I have anything to post, it will be "Yes" or "I agree and you should be awarded a medal!"

[Markus Kahila]

"I have never condemned or insulted anyone, unlike you guys."

- I find this claim quite interesting, especially considering some of your earlier posts. Let's take two examples:

(To Antonius, from "Taijiquan works in a real fight" -thread: )
"You speak as if you are buddha himself. I am sorry that I am not worthy of your holiness' holy knowledge. You say my cup is full....??? No offense meant, and none taken."

I don't know what kind of school of kungfu you come from, but in kungfu culture not to see this as insulting - especially when directed towards a senior Shaolin Wahnam disciple in the school's own forum - would be a stretch indeed. Please tell me, how are we to interpret this comment, as you have "never condemned or insulted anyone"?

(From "Visit to Sifu Wong: August 3rd - 6th 2004" -thread: )
"I think that has more to say of your training than his "genius"

- To belittle a Shaolin Wahnam student in the schools forum is one thing, and to belittle the Grandmaster of the school is another. Or have I perhaps misunderstood you words and intentions?

"Too much berating and people constantly misquoting, skeweing and putting words in my mouth as a launching pad for their own Heroic posts."

- Did I misquote you on the previous two examples? If we take these standards of yours on courtesy - or lack of thereof - that have been well displayed on your earlier posts and use them as a general yardstick, we haven't even begun to insult or berate you. However, so far we have been quite tolerant and courteous toward you, overlooking such insulting remarks that you have made in the past.

Considering this background, your recent posts come across as little more than a poor attempt at misdirection. The issue here is not whether or not you or us have been berated or insulted, but that of revealing false statements that can be found in your posts in abundance:

From "One Finger Shooting Physics" -thread:
"Tai chi is essentially perfect body mechanics, and at higher level, much less visible movement, more internal. Fa jing doesn't just come from alot of chi gong practice, it comes from practicing body mechanics correctly as well."

From "There is no qi (chi) in taijiquan" -thread:
"People take "chi" too literally. Its a very wide, and open ended term that now can be explained by various different happenings."

Believe me, we have nothing against you personally. This is not an enraged struggle between hotheads with inflated egos, but rather a friendly sparring match of words between individuals who as far as I can tell share a keen interest and deep love for traditional arts. But truth is, most of what you say is misinformed and, frankly, quite silly from our perspective. For example, we don't believe that chi and internal force are much more than the results of body mechanics and harmony of movement, we know it from direct experience. The direct results of our practice and that of our students confirms our claims on a daily basis, so when someone like yourself enters our forum and spreads misinformation about chi, internal force and traditional chinese martial arts based on their limited perspective, it is our duty to our students and to our legacy to reveal false statements, and disseminate correct information. Many visitors who frequent this open forum - visible and invisible - come searching for genuine traditional arts. Do we want them to find false information here, represented for example by your comments on chi, internal force and Taijiquan, or correct, rewarding and inspiring information about great spiritual and martial arts that are being reduced to gymnastics and kickboxing by bogus instructors around the world?

The sad thing is that you willingly settle for rocks instead of diamonds. The joyful thing is that your posts are a big help to us in revealing some common misconceptions concerning traditional arts, and spreading awareness and correct information about them.


As with everything, take it as you will.

[Mark Blohm]

Junior Shaolin Wahnam Students,

If you've been thinking that our Sihings have been too harsh on some forum guests, read the above stament and then think about it again.

The direct results of our practice and that of our students confirms our claims on a daily basis, so when someone like yourself enters our forum and spreads misinformation about chi, internal force and traditional chinese martial arts based on their limited perspective, it is our duty to our students and to our legacy to reveal false statements, and disseminate correct information.

Thank you, Markus Sihing.


Mark

[Liokault]

I have pretty much said everything that I wanted to say. From now on, I think if I have anything to post, it will be "Yes" or "I agree and you should be awarded a medal!"

Don't forget to add how much you owe to Wong!

To be honest Baguamonk, you are flogging a dead horse, people here treat this forum like a weird cult where common sense is suspended!

Its not even like they are adequate martial artists! Look at the really poor video they post.

When I first came here it was because they put a guy into full contact, which is great. When I saw what was posted about his (very poor performance) I soon came to a firm understanding of the crapness level here vat wahnam! (the best bit was the "this is the first time ever (!) that tai chi has been filmed in full contact!!11!!!!ONE!! LOL)

[Mark Blohm]

A good example of how not to behave

Don't forget to add how much you owe to Wong!

To be honest Baguamonk, you are flogging a dead horse, people here treat this forum like a weird cult where common sense is suspended!

Its not even like they are adequate martial artists! Look at the really poor video they post.

When I first came here it was because they put a guy into full contact, which is great. When I saw what was posted about his (very poor performance) I soon came to a firm understanding of the crapness level here vat wahnam! (the best bit was the "this is the first time ever (!) that tai chi has been filmed in full contact!!11!!!!ONE!! LOL)

Wow. I thought it was over when you disrespected Grandmaster Takamatsu. Now you've insulted Sifu Wong on his own forum.