Gatka an Indian Martial Art that is no more..

[Guest]

Hello everyone, I thought I would share what little I know about this once fine Indian art that doesn't really exist anymore.

Prior to reading Sifu Wong's books(which are brilliant), I was very curious about learning an Indian MA. Purely because I thought "I'm Indian so I should learn something that is from my own culture.

Well I was told by my dad about the MA Sikhs, Hindu's and some Muslims used to fight the Mughal's empire(that used to rule India in a very brutal manner). There are countless stories of battles being fought where many times the smaller force of Sikhs/Hindu's and Muslims overcame the Mughal armies.

The art was transmitted to Guru Hargobind Ji from Hindu hill Raja's(Kings) when he refused to leave Mughal prison unless they too were released(52 of them).

He told me about the story of how during the very bloody riots of 1984 in India(when Indira Gandi was assassinated by her two Sikh bodyguards-which led to Sikhs being indiscriminately killed across India) A Sikh defended A Guduwara(Sikh Temple) from a mob of 50 just using a long staff(A weapon that was apparently well used in the art).

So I do believe this used to be a good complete art-consisting of archery, horseriding, sword/staff/spear fighting and hand to hand fighting.

However I have seen a demonstration of this art by some Sikhs and I have to be honest and say that what they are using is not the art that I have heard about.

I think this could be down to the fact that when the British occupied India they banned the learning of the art. I read up on this further and the consensus is that many of the masters were killed or went into seclusion.

Also there are unfortunately a lot of Charlatans posing as experts in Gatka.
What a shame.

Kind regards Shamsher.

[chris3212]

Sounds like its in the same predicament as kung fu if you ask me.

[Guest]

Thank God No Kung Fu is not like Gatka, there are masters such as Sifu Wong who make sure the art is not lost.

I think Gatka very sadly has(if not already) had its day.

[Charles David]

Fyi

Dear Shamsher,

I had the opportunity to learn, if only briefly, from a Taoist Master who had also spent some years walking through India as a Sadhu Baba. He told me of a secret Indian Internal Martial Art called Vararmi Marma, which he had studied and practiced. I do not know anything other than this. I thought the name alone might be of some interest to you.

Good luck with your continued research and practice.

With Kind Regards,

[Guest]

Hi Charles, that's the difficulty with Indian MA-that the genuinely deep arts are kept secret. I think the word Marma is the equivalent of the word acupoint. That's all I know about the name of the art you mentioned, thanks for the information though

Kind regards Shamsher.

P.S. my research into Indian MA is piecemeal at the moment, maybe when I go later this year I will find something. I can always dream

[grammatoncleric]

Hi Shamsher,

I can recommend a teacher of Tekken Kalari in the Uk; Master Paul Whitrod check out his site page on Tekken Kalari (kalarippayattu), here is the site of his UK school of Tekken Kalari and here are some videos of him in action, the videos on the left are of Tekken Kalari.

I've met him when I had a message off him for a shoulder injury and a private Hsing Yi lesson, he is an extremely nice man, very peaceful, and is a Krisna Devotee. I had a pleasent discussion with him for about an hour after lesson on Vedic philosophy.

He also has a reputation for being an internal martial artist who can really fight, and according to Uk Bagua institute founder Alex Kozma he has displayed empty force tio him.

[Guest]

Thanks Marcus i've already visited his site, but alas I want to learn Shaolin Kung Fu. I am just curious about Indian MA's that's all, nothing more

Kind regards Shamsher.

P.S. It is amazing that Master Paul Whitrod practices with the mace, he seems very dedicated to the original art! Very few people I think would attempt to practice with such a heavy weapon(those maces are like tree trunks).

[Guest]

Charles I forgot to write, you are very lucky to find that Master you mentioned and on top of that Sifu Wong

[Charles David]

Good Luck or Good Karma?

Dear Shamsher,

Indeed it was a fortuitous meeting in a Bangkok park. I was practicing the Chi Kung that I learned from Sifu Wong's book and he saw me and approached me.

He told me to practice the three circle stance every day, which I did for one year before I was able to attend Sifu's Intensive Chi Kung course, the results of which vastly exceeded anything I had ever learned before.

I have fallen out of touch with my friend, the mysterious yogi, but I still remember many of the things he told me. After getting a taste of his internal force, I laughed and laughed and laughed. Afterwards he looked at me and smiled and nodded: "That's what we sages are for" he said exuberantly, "to make people laugh!"

Perhaps I will meet him again some day?


Luckily Yours,

[Ray]

Hahahaha

[lanterna]

Jogo do pau

The story of "lost" arts can be applied to many parts of the world.

It's a shame that some of them are lost forever.

This could be put in a different tread but by the "roots" of it it has a connection to the current tread.

Here in Portugal there is a old martial art witch has almost disappeared it's called "jogo do pau" translated it could be "game of the stick" or "game of the staff". According to old stories the practitioners where incredible fighters the chosen weapon was of significant importance since this art developed in the most remote areas of the country where other people were often very poor.

As some of you may now it was Portugal that "conquered" India and many years later gave it to England as part of a wedding Dowry.

According to the old stories when this happened may Portuguese returned home and brought whit them some kind of "dance/defense" that they had learn in India.

Many historians believe that it was the adaptation of this art that gave birth to the Portuguese martial art.

maybe some elements of "Gatka" can still be found right here in Europe.

[Guest]

Hello Lanterna,

I have to say that Portugal never conquered India but established some colonies such as present day Chennai. Although like the French, Russians and Americans they would have loved to conquer India!

The British took advantage of the infighting of the different factions within India(there are too many to count) and as i'm sure everyone knows the British Raj came into existence, although this couldn't have happened without the support of all the corrupt Brahmin Hindu's, Muslims and Sikhs in powerful positions.

Gatka from what i'm told is derived from Shastra Vidyaa, which is an ancient MA of India. Unfortunately I think this art is kept secret.
Only a few people bother to learn it or the lack of masters of this art may be the reasons for its' decline.

Also stick fighting is prevelant all over India and the rest of south asia from what i've read and am told.

Interesting though Shamsher

[Guest]

Oh yes I forgot to say Marcus,

do you know that kalarippayattu was practiced by the great Rishi Parashurama it's said he was undefeatable in battle. I think the only time he either forfeited or lost was against Bhishma(son of the Demi-Godess Ganga) I can't remember the story from the MahaBharat at the moment(I recommend reading it-from what I can see you like books -it's thought to be the greatest epic known to man due to its' depth)

God bless Shamsher.

[lanterna]

Conquest

I have to say that Portugal never conquered India but established some colonies such as present day Chennai.

Just to clarify a point. The ancient Portuguese and English empires had different notions on "conquest" the English wanted territories the Portuguese wanted trade roots and influence When i said the Portuguese "conquered" India i was referring to the "tribute" and influence (aside from the colonies) that was "conquered" in India, The Portuguese where more interested in establishing trade roots than conquering land. When there will was challenged there "power" and "force" where displayed. I think thats one of the reasons the Chinese emperor offered Macau to the Portuguese. There is a description of a battle of the Portuguese fleet against one of India's rulers that didn't want to "applied" with the Portuguese rules and was "convinced" by the Portuguese fleet. let's not forget that where talking of the time the cape of good hope was crossed by the Portuguese fleet, when Portugal was feared and controlled the Atlantic, before the Spanish "invincible armada" (which was 1/4 Portuguese) and before the power of the English fleets.

As for the "jogo do Pau" I reefed it because many historians date it back to that time, so its possible that a similar effect to Karate being brought from china.

[Guest]

Hey Lanterna, when you put it like that I understand what you mean.