Ancient warriors of the West

[Alex McArdell]

Although many Wahnam practitioners obviously have a great affinity with the Far East I thought it might be interesting to start a thread that looks at the great warriors of the western culture. I have some knowledge on this, especially the mythical fighters of ancient Wales. Ireland too has some great examples. I'll let the Scots speak for themselves . Many of the older stories I know of have magical elements that one might disregard as fantasy if not for the fact that many of them seem to mirror our own training to a certain degree, such as the Irish hero Cu Chulain tapping the energy of the cosmos to 'warp' into a mighty warrior. My experiences with Qigong are making me look at the old tales in a new way. If people are interested in hearing about these stories let me know and I'll continue. Or perhaps other people can contribute the stories they know. I'd be very interested to hear of similar tales from other parts of Europe.
Alex

[Jonny Say]

To my Welsh Brother,

Pray tell us more my friend!!

[andyb]

I'd be interested in hearing more about the mythical fighters of ancient Wales

[Alex McArdell]

The death of Lleu

Alright I will! Thanks for the interest people.

Britain (and England especially) has a bit of a folklore vacuum due to the various invasions its suffered. Although groups such as the Normans were quite efficient in diluting the original culture of the land, some examples do still survive. The most well known pieces of literiture are probably Ireland's Book of Kells and more famously the Welsh Mabinogion.

The Mabinogion is thought to be one of the original documents where a King Arthur is mentioned. The French and the Cornish don't like this much as they too have laid claim to the Arthurian Legends. Its a fascinating book as it is very cyclical in nature. The villains of one story often turn up as the heros of another, showing how the black and white view of good and evil did not hold so true in ancient wales. Only with the Christian invasion did such dualism take hold.

One of my favourite stories concerns the death and ressurection of a character named Lleu.(Light/Lion)

Lleu was a magical being, born of virgin birth. He was a beautiful sight to behold and was the mightiest warrior of the age, but he suffered from a curse(by his mother!) that he would never marry a human woman.
His uncle, a powerful enchanter named Gwydion takes it upon himself to solve this problem. Using his powers he creates a woman from flowers to be Lleu's wife and names her Blodeuwedd. Lleu and Blodeuwedd are married and live blissfully together for several years.

Then while Lleu is away visiting his uncle, a hunting party arrives at Lleu's castle and begs the hospitality of the Lady Blodeuwedd. The Lady gladdly agreeds and orders a feast in honour of her guests. Chief amoungst the guests is a mighty hunter named Goronwy who takes an instant fancy to his hostess. Blodeuwedd (being somewhat fickle!)quickly gives in to his attentions and falls in love with him.

The two then began to plot against Lleu. But Lleu is such a powerful warrior that Goronwy knows he would never be able to defeat him in a fair duel. So Blodeuwedd agrees to find his weakness.

When Lleu returns, Blodeuwedd, under pretence of concern for his well being, asks how easy it is for him to be killed! Lleu tells her that it is well nigh impossible for any mortal man to kill him. In a manner that is strikingly similar to Samson and Delilah, she persists until Lleu finally tells her that there is one way for him to be slain.

First the assailant must possess a spear that has been in the making for a whole year.
Then he must attack Lleu when he is neither indoors or outdoors but standing out in the open with a crude shelter over his head! Lleu must also be standing balanced with one foot on a goat and the other on a cauldron. Only then is he vulnerable!

A year later Bloduewedd brings up the subject again and feigns confusion until Lleu agrees to demonstrate! Of course Goronwy is hiding in tall grass nearby with his recently completed spear at the ready and the moment Lleu is standing atop the cauldron, he strikes! Too late Lleu realises he has been tricked and the spear rips into his side. But he does not die. At the moment he is injured, his transforms into an eagle and flies away. Bloduewedd is then free to marry Goronwy and they live together happily in Lleu's castle.

When Lleu's uncle Gwydion hears of his nephew's apparent 'death' he goes in search of his body. In the forest he finds a wild pig feasting from rotting meat that seems to be falling from the sky. He looks up to see a wounded Eagle, slowly dying with its flesh falling to the ground. Using his magic he returns Lleu to his true form and takes him home to recover.

After several months Lleu has fully recovered and goes after his wife and her lover seeking revenge. The two flee, but Lleu is simply too powerful to be eluded for long. Finally they are caught and Lleu demands that Goronwy stand and take the same blow that Lleu survived. Goronwy agrees, (having no choice) but begs Lleu to allow him to at least try and avoid the spear. Lleu agrees, knowing it will make no difference.

As Lleu hurls the spear, Goronwy cleverly dives behind a huge standing stone for shelter. But the spear shatters the stone, driving a hole straight through it and into Goronwy's body. He then turns to deal with his wife. With the help of his uncle he casts a spell so that the lady of flowers will forever live in darkness. She transforms into an owl and flys away and remains in her bird form to this day.

Scholars view this story as a representation of the cyclical nature of life, death and the rotation of the seasons. Lleu and Goronwy are actually the same person but mirror images. Lleu represents the Light(summer) and Goronwy the Darkness(winter) and they are endlessly fighting over the ownership of the natural world.(The Lady of Flowers)

We can also see the progression through the astrological symbols. Lleu can also be spelt Llew(Lion/Leo). His wife is a virgin(Virgo), and Lleu stands balanced(Libra) between a goat(Capricorn/winter) and a cauldron(Cancer/summer).
The story is a bardic riddle and a way in which the people of ancient times would have learnt that light must always give way to darkenss and vice versa, Yin flows into Yang.
We can only assume that Goronwy will likewise be ressurected and will again rise to power and slay Lleu all over again.

Alex

[Ray]

Brilliant!

Please tell me more!

Divineshadow

[LeeWeiJoo]

Thanks for the great tale!

I too have a great interest in the ancient cultures of the British people, particularly the Irish, Celts, Scots and Welsh.

Please do enlighten us more on your culture

[Alex McArdell]

Glad you liked it. For the next installment I may tell you a bit about Cu Chulain the Irish folk hero!
Alex

[cnholmes]

Robin Hood? Dick Turpin?

Britain (and England especially) has a bit of a folklore vacuum due to the various invasions its suffered.

This is not true. You just haven't looked very far.

Here's one from my home region - the Lambton Worm

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/legends/lampton_worm.html

England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France have always squabbled over where legends originate from. I do have it on very good authority that Stonehenge is in England, though

Chris.

[Alex McArdell]

You're quite right that there are some English stories that still survive. Robin Hood and William Tell are both great examples. One of my favourite English stories concerns Herne the Hunter who roams windsor forrest with a pack of ghostly hunting hounds!
But what I was referring to was an extensive body of writing such as the Mabinogion. One of the known reasons for JRR Tolkien writing the Lord of the Rings as he felt England lacked a mythology so he thought to create his own.
Dick Turpin is also a great story but its also relatively modern. Turpin was probably having his adventures at about the same time that the already ancient Mabinogi texts were disovered. By then it had already spent centuries being passed on orally by the bards. I was referring then to older tales of mighty warriors. If we look back farther then things get a bit more sparse. This is the vacuum to which I was referring. Stonehenge is obviously in England and very ancient but I have never actually heard of any old stories about it, hence the mystery surrounding it. Maybe you can tell us one in this thread as I'd be very interested to hear.
Alex

[drunken boxer]

Yeah I'm interested, bring on the Cuchulain stories!

I know a few too, and have a few stories of the ancient warriors from my region in Ireland, but I'll leave it to you for now.

All I'll say is Cuchulain was the ultimate warrior - the Hound of Ulster!

[cnholmes]

LEX,

I think part of the problem is that you are trying to place a concrete definition on the word "folklore". If I give you written evidence "thats not oral tradition", if I tell you of one of the many, many english folksongs from the oral tradition - "that's not in a large body of work". If its got proof - its not a myth - no proof… well, I wouldn't have the story, then. And as far as I know there's no time limit on folklore.

Surely folklore and mythology ARE the mystery surrounding stonehenge. Anyway, lets see... google... search for stonehenge, warrior = Boudicca

Tacitus says nothing of her burial. There is a story that she was buried at Stonehenge and its legendary circle of stones were set up by the Druids to mark her tomb. However, there is not solid foundation for this and isthe story is largely taken to be a fable.

Not bad - we're back on topic

Chris.

[Alex McArdell]

The naming of Cuchulain

I totally agree! Cuchulain is the man! I feel a bit odd talking about him when there are several thoroughbred Irish people on the forum. I'm just a lowly mongrel(or hound ). My mother's English, my dad's part Irish and I live in Wales! Still I'll open up proceedings and tell the first part of the story. Maybe others will pick up the thread and continue it for me. By the way, anyone who has read any 2000AD comics might recognise parts of the story as Cuchulain was the inspiration for the character Slaine.

The naming of Cuchulain
The story begins with a young boy named Setanta. Setanta was only a child but was already an impressive youth and caught the attention of the King during a game of hurling. The King invited Setanta to dine with him in the home of the wealthy smith, Culan. Setanta agreed to follow the kings party afterwards and meet him later at culan's home. The king promptly forgot all about his invitation and when Setanta arrived at the home of Culan he found that the entrance was locked and being guarded by Culan's vicious hound. This hound was one of the most feared creatures in the land and was always thirsty for blood!
The revellers inside suddenly heard a terrible sound from the gates. They ran outside and found a very bloody Setanta standing over the dead body of the hound. The boy Setanta had single handedly managed to kill what was thought to be one of the most dangerous animals in Ulster. Culan is furious at the loss of his prized hound as it guarded his very extravegant home and protected his family. Setanta then kneels before Culan and begs forgiveness. In payment of his debt he pledges to become not only the protector of Culan's family and home but the whole of Ireland and renames himself Cuchulain.(The hound of Culan)

Alex

[Alex McArdell]

Yeah ok chris, I take your point about the time limit thing. As the point of the thread is to tell these old stories of ancient warriors, I'd love to hear some of yours. Especially some of the English ones, as I don't know very many. I know a bit about the Welsh and Irish but practically nothing about the Scots or the English. I'd be very interested to hear about what I've missed so please tell.
Alex

[cnholmes]

LEX,

I'll have a dig around

In the meantime - here's something to read http://wongkiewkit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=642

I'm glad I didn't put you off the thread - I love reading myths and history. Please do share more.

Slightly off what I was talking about, does anyone have anything on Brian Boru? As I understand it he was a pioneer in his time who founded the Irish music tradition as we know it now (and was a great warrior).

Regards,
Chris.

[Alex McArdell]

Brian Boru

Brian Boru? That rings a bell. I suspect I may have studied him in school. I just consulted the oracles(google) and found that the harp symbol you find on a pint of guinness is called the Brian Boru Harp. He must have been a major figure to grace the logo of such a mighty ale!