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**Guest** · 20 April 2007, 02:31 AM

my email address is edit: email address removed at user's request --- please also read the next post by Antonius!!

also if anyone else here knows this person or how to contact them... I beg you to forward this to them..

**Antonius** · 20 April 2007, 03:36 AM

Qualities of a Good Master?

I debated whether or not to delete this thread. I decided not to, at least for now. Instead, I would like to sound a strong warning to those of you searching for 3rdLevelMoPai.

In my discussions with various Mo Pai members, several of them expressed concern that Jim (aka 3rdLevelMoPai) might hurt students by teaching them incorrectly. I have never met Jim and I do not know his level, but one thing is clear -- he is not on good terms with his Sifu. This fact, in itself, should make people wary of learning from him.

Those of you searching for Jim -- ask yourself what you are really after. To me, it is obvious that you are after one thing -- power. You want the powers described in the "Magus of Java" for yourself. But at what cost?

Those powers are real. They still exist in this world. They may be nearer than you think. But they must be learned from a master, and practiced correctly. If not, the risk of injury is high. If you learn incorrectly and develop an energy deviation, who will fix you?

**Damian Kissey** · 20 April 2007, 07:27 AM

A sharing

Originally posted by maynoth View Post

I see this as the best path to enlightenment...

I am seeking power to liberate myself from this illusion...

I desperately seek to leave this world, and help end the suffering of my fellow man...

..

A sibling , who is now Sifu Wong's student , reminisced about his first internal arts teacher ( has psychic powers , unharmed by bus running over abdomen , boiling oil proof , can strike from a distance , etc ) and school more then 30 years ago : in a private philosophy class while new young students were gathered eagerly waiting for x-files/jedi stories , many were perplexed when the Master started by asking " how many of you made up your beds at home this morning ?" .....of course , hardly anyone put up their hands and a lecture on morality followed .

All enlightened masters taught from experience : power for liberation starts within yourself , at home , in this world . Of course the Internal Arts Master may take over your training once you are deserving and have graduated from being a good son at home and being a good citizen of this often taken for granted daily world.

So to all aspiring ones : do not forget to fold the blankets and empty the garbage , don't do drugs , be nice to your parents , do your best at school , practise honest livelihood , be a good spouse if married , be honest with yourself if taking the ascetic's vow and sincerely ask for divine guidance .

Best wishes to all in all good endeavours.

**Maxime** · 20 April 2007, 07:42 AM

Dear Maynoth,

Before learning from a good teacher, one must be a good student.

You are coming in this place, Grandmaster Wong's place, for advertising yourself to another teacher. Without any introduction to the Wahnam Family, not even a nice 'Hello'.

Entering someone's house without elegance and using its ground for personal purposes is both disgraceful and disrespectful.

Originally posted by maynoth View Post

I am seeking power to liberate myself from this illusion. Mo Pai is the only system I believe will grant me that power.

No system can grant you that power, it depends on many other factors (like your real motivation and your dedication). Besides, spiritual teachings leading toward enlightement are many. Your comment shows a lack of research and of openmindness.

I am now 25, and every day since grade school I have felt as though I do not belong in this world. I feel as though I have been trapped here for eons...
I desperately seek to leave this world, and help end the suffering of my fellow man, and others who wish the same path as I...

Do you really know what you are talking about?

We belong to this world. You might think the contrary, but your stomach is happy to belong to this world, when it receives that nice meal. Your mother was certainly happy to belong to this world, when she gave birth to you.

If you want to 'help your fellow man', then start by being kind to your parents, to help that old lady cross the street, and present yourself in a good way (like saying hello when you enter someone else's house).

Enlightement (which I suppose you are refering to) is a serious affair. Not a fancy or a hobby.

Let me show you the way: shave your head, throw your computer, leave your family and friends, forget about the nice shape of your girlfriend, forget about music, alcohol, and late nights. Then go to a Buddhist monastery and become a monk. A novice at first. Humble yourself in front of the ancestors who walked the path.

Let's see how many time you can stop to belong to this world.

My point is to ponder oneself before talking about difficult roads. Seeking enlightement is a great task, and like before attempting a big travel, one must prepare adequatly: being ready physically, mentally, and spiritually.

I wish you the best attainment in whatever (healthy) road you might choose.

Maxime

**Maxime** · 20 April 2007, 07:55 AM

I have just read Damian Sihing's post.

Thank you Sihing for putting it concisely and very clearly.

Kind regards,

Maxime

**Guest** · 20 April 2007, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Maxime View Post

Dear Maynoth,

Before learning from a good teacher, one must be a good student.

You are coming in this place, Grandmaster Wong's place, for advertising yourself to another teacher. Without any introduction to the Wahnam Family, not even a nice 'Hello'.

Entering someone's house without elegance and using its ground for personal purposes is both disgraceful and disrespectful.

No system can grant you that power, it depends on many other factors (like your real motivation and your dedication). Besides, spiritual teachings leading toward enlightement are many. Your comment shows a lack of research and of openmindness.

Do you really know what you are talking about?

We belong to this world. You might think the contrary, but your stomach is happy to belong to this world, when it receives that nice meal. Your mother was certainly happy to belong to this world, when she gave birth to you.

If you want to 'help your fellow man', then start by being kind to your parents, to help that old lady cross the street, and present yourself in a good way (like saying hello when you enter someone else's house).

Enlightement (which I suppose you are refering to) is a serious affair. Not a fancy or a hobby.

Let me show you the way: shave your head, throw your computer, leave your family and friends, forget about the nice shape of your girlfriend, forget about music, alcohol, and late nights. Then go to a Buddhist monastery and become a monk. A novice at first. Humble yourself in front of the ancestors who walked the path.

Let's see how many time you can stop to belong to this world.

My point is to ponder oneself before talking about difficult roads. Seeking enlightement is a great task, and like before attempting a big travel, one must prepare adequatly: being ready physically, mentally, and spiritually.

I wish you the best attainment in whatever (healthy) road you might choose.

Maxime

I am truly sorry if I offended Master Wong, yourself or anyone else. I debated not posting here, but I saw it as the only way to contact this individual..
It was not my intention to offend anyone, or be disrespectful. Please accept my apology.

I have researched many many styles of meditation. Literally hundreds.. I would not classify myself ignorant in comparison to most westerners. The problem is that I require some sort of evidence that a particular practice can produce quantifiable results. If I cannot find evidence of it its validity I do not consider it seriously. The energetic paths such as g tum mo, kundalini, qigong(chi kung), neigong(nei kung), and other yogic technologies actually seem to have hard evidence to back them up... I have seen enough to know that this path is very real.

Leaving this world to never be reborn is much more than a "hobby" for me... it is an obsession which defines me in every aspect of my being.. I do my absolute best not to own any possession which I do not use enough to justify having. I live in shack, with only a sink and toilet. I have to drive to a near by park to use a public shower. I have a computer, cloths, books, and a mini-refrigerator, and my most expensive possession is a Honda moped. I work 2 double shifts a week, rebuild laptops to sell, and spend the rest of my time either researching techniques and meditations or in actual meditation itself..

The only reason I wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night... is the hope that maybe someday I can wake up, and be released from this illusion never to return.. I don't expect you to believe me, or perhaps you think I am insane, that is your prerogative. I do not have any "friends", I do not own anything I do not use, I do not see a point on caring much about becoming a collector of dream-stuffs.

I do not believe most Buddhist meditations offer a realistic path to enlightenment. It may be possible but the time they would require would exceed the length most peoples life cycles. I am searching for an accelerated path such as the yogas of naropa, or the thunder path. I know the risks involved... and the thought of death or illness itself doesn't bother me at all. Being reborn and starting over, bothers me. I want to end this cycle of death and rebirth, even if I cannot achieve total enlightenment. The thunderpath provides that, and that is why i seek it. If you think this path is a "hobby" to me, then you are absolutely incorrect.

Again I apologize to Master Wong, and all the others I have offended.

**Maxime** · 20 April 2007, 07:30 PM

Missing the beauty of a sunset, or the taste of chocolate...

Dear Maynoth,

thank you for your reply. I am happy to read your apologies toward my Sifu, though I had not asked for them.

What is asked from our guests, despite a reasonnable amount of respect, is to respect Sifu Chang's privacy. Please do not use our forum to break (or try to break) it.

I think you have understood that the meaning of my post, which was certainly not to undermine you, was from the heart and only in response to what you wrote.

I do not think that you are insane, and I thank you for your explanations.

I am just sincerely wondering if you really took the time to read the previous replies (Anthony, Damian and myself) and to ponder their content. If not, please do so.

Dear Friend, if I may, I would like to ask you one question:

Are you happy to live?

Maxime

**Guest** · 20 April 2007, 08:38 PM

I am grateful to be alive, and I love every minute I exist. I enjoy this waking dream, we call reality.

I have realized that this reality indeed a literal dream, and we all just pretend it's real, that our ego's and lives are "real", when in fact they have no more reality than a dream does. I am not suggesting that people's suffering isn't actual, or that the pain and love people feel isn't authentic, only that it is caused by their attachment to a fictional story they believe to be reality.

Having realized that this world, and all experiences I have had or will ever have inside it are delusions, it is my desire to "wake up" and stop dreaming, this dream and any future dreams...

While I am grateful to exist at all, I am also very tired. I know at the core of my being that this illusion is not where I belong, and my only wish is that I develop fast enough escape before the cycle begins anew.

**Maxime** · 20 April 2007, 09:44 PM

Thank you for your reply.

If you don't mind, I wish to make a few comments. You can forget them afterwards if you wish.

In my opinion, your understanding of the phenomenal and transcendantal realities is only intellectual.

I have realized that this reality indeed a literal dream, and we all just pretend it's real, that our ego's and lives are "real", when in fact they have no more reality than a dream does. I am not suggesting that people's suffering isn't actual, or that the pain and love people feel isn't authentic, only that it is caused by their attachment to a fictional story they believe to be reality.

You don't speak from personal experience. You are just rewriting some common, though very useful, explanations about reality and Reality. Hence, what have you really realized?

Having realized that this world, and all experiences I have had or will ever have inside it are delusions, it is my desire to "wake up" and stop dreaming, this dream and any future dreams...

You say that you realized this world is an illusion (which it is), then you say that your desire is to "wake up" and stop dreaming.

Friend, if you really had realized (not intellectualize) that this world is an illusion, you would already have woke up. Which is not the case.

While I am grateful to exist at all, I am also very tired.

Being grateful to live another day in this good old earth gives a wonderful energy to live by. Nevertheless, 'being grateful' is not really an adequate formulation, I prefer 'practicing gratefulness'. Practicing gratefulness from the heart is an act of will born out of a strong feeling for being happy to live. That strong feeling gives strong energy, making it hard to be 'very tired'.

There are many levels of gratefulness. This is a skill which deepens with practice. My opinion is that if you had practiced it to a certain level, you would be more open to others, more prone to share with and receive from others, and less tired.

I do my absolute best not to own any possession which I do not use enough to justify having. I live in shack, with only a sink and toilet. I have to drive to a near by park to use a public shower

Living voluntary in extreme simplicity will not make you enlightened. If you are attached to that idea, then your mind is deluded by preconceived ideas.

Though the previous can help, the first step is to open your heart (seat of the spirit). An open heart does not mean an enlightened being, but it is a preparatory step far more important than throwing your goods away.

If you create any tension, like 'an obsession which defines me in every aspect of my being' or 'develop fast enough escape before the cycle begins anew', then that tension will -to a certain extent- close your heart. If you close your heart, you dismiss an opportunity to go beyond the river, on the other shore, and experience that undefinable peace which brings tears of bliss out the eyes.

All things being equal, I strongly believe that to open one's heart is far more effective as a first step, than to walk the path of ascetics practices.

Everyday life, the one you wish you do not belong to but you do anyway

, provides wonderful opportunities to open one's heart (i.e walking toward enlightement), like enjoying a good meal with a one pointed mind, or practicing kindness toward others (and not living in seclusion).

I guess most of what has been said in this thread shares common features.

I hope you didn't mind my straightforward words.

With Peace,

Maxime

**Guest** · 21 April 2007, 12:14 AM

You don't speak from personal experience.

Actually yes I do.

Until 2005 I was atheist, and did not believe in anything we would call paranormal. I had made my stand as a Randian objectivist, it wasn't until 2005 that my world would fall out from under me.

I have personally experienced a temporary and imperfect enlightenment. I debated explaining this event which occurred in Dec 05, that completely changed my viewpoint of reality forever. Telling people you experienced temporary enlightenment doesn't exactly boost your credibility level.

Whether you believe me or not is your prerogative.

Sometime around Nov 05 I decided to act a bit of information which was tossed my way.

Page Not Found

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.02/dalai.html

I read several studies about the brainwaves of longterm mediators (50 years+ daily meditation). Some of these monks were hand picked by the Dali Llama (who by his own admission isn't yet enlightened). They began doing Metta meditation, and within minutes their brainwaves began to rise to a frequency band called Gamma (40-42hz) on an EEG. This bad of awareness is linked intrinsically to consciousness itself as it disappears under anesthesia. It is also linked to our higher mental functions.

When you have an epiphany, an AHA! or Eureka! moment, you have just had a very brief burst of gamma band activity.

Your brain has taken knowledge from every area of itself, pulled it together, and holographically reorganized itself at a higher level of understanding.. Temporal Binding, consciousness, and all our other higher level abilities stem from this level of consciousness. I have also received reports from people like myself: practitioners of energetic meditations like nei kung, also display large gamma abnormalities, on EEG's. Indeed in almost every documented paranormal event in which eeg's were used gamma band activity has been associated with it, acts like telekinesis and precognition, etc. It seemed as though 42 really was the answer.

What amazed me so much about these monks was not that they displayed gamma waves activity during meditation it was the high amplitude(off the chart), an perfectly synchronized gamma waves that amazed me. No one has ever seen anything like this. This was hard evidence for higher states of awareness, and I wanted in on it.

Well being who I am I jumped on this, and decided to build my open EEG http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/

I also used phycho-acoustics called binaural beats to entrain this 42hz frequency. http://www.bwgen.com/

I meditated for about 4 hours each day until I was able to reach levels which were highly visible on my eeg...

Reality began to decohere, and suddenly it became malleable. I got all the little hints the universe threw at me... all the subtle little things you would never ever ever notice... people would say things to me and then ask me "why did I just say that?" I knew!, but didn't tell them. Television commercials, letters in the mail, email, ironic coincidences, messages left on my answering machine, all pointed to one truth... The universe was speaking, and I was listening for once.

I experienced a true yet temporary state of non-dual awareness, where "I" and "What I was observing" was the same thing.

I had broken into the what Jung calls the collective unconsciousness, only to find it was anything but unconscious. This reality is a living breathing awareness, and we are apart of it, just like cells are apart of our body. I realized we are all one being, all one consciousness, all one mind... in the exact same respect that neurons in your brain are all apart of the greater whole... We are just like them..

I realized this universe is an infinite holographic fractal pattern, each
"piece" containing the whole. I realized that there are 6 dimensions, 3 of space and 3 of time, and that this mutliverse contains every possibility and is yet static and still.. This infinite fractal pattern was one thing, all things, and yet "no thing" all at once.

I realized much about the nature of reality, but I won't go into detail about all of it here, in recent news a similar 6 dimensional theory of everything is gaining popularity. If you are curious there is a yahoo group called "imagestreaming" with deals with Einstein's thought techniques. I explained this theory in much detail there.

Most of what I realized was beyond words, and what I could not write down was lost to me.

I was completely and totally awestruck, and more realizations poured into me... Faster... and Faster... and faster... and faster.. I began bleeding into other realities, other layers of this mulitiverse, flipping through them like channels on the TV... at one point I existed in many at once, having multiple extra arms and legs, etc in different layers. It was too much, too fast, too soon, and I denied that it was real. I assumed I was hallucinating (no it wasn't drug induced). My roommate found me unconscious and running a high fever and soaked in sweat. I was taken to the ER where their cat-scan machine mysteriously died while scanning me. I came to this reality about 9 days in a comatose like state. They tested me for every drug, and disease and did a spinal tap. They have no explanation.

The things I saw and beings I encountered were written off as hallucinations and I slowly regained control of my mind. It year almost before I was 100%... And I it wasn't until a friend of mine sat down and explained he had had a similar of the layers of the multiverse peeling away during the exact same time, that I realized it had really occurred.. another friend told me of dreams that plagued him during this time period where he spent entire days in a dream world. It seems my experience effected many other people near my area... one of my neighbors committed suicide, while I was in the hospital. I must have created a large disturbance in "the force"

That strong feeling gives strong energy, making it hard to be 'very tired'.

While I am very grateful to exist and be aware, I am tired of living in a dream, enough is enough and I am ready to move on.

If Buddha had been content to live in ignorance in this dream world, I doubt he would have found enlightenment.

I am very grateful for this chance to exist as a sentient being. I don't plan on waisting this opportunity, I will free myself from this cycle or I will die trying.

Living voluntary in extreme simplicity will not make you enlightened.

I have no contention that it will, I only wanted you to know this isn't some "hobby" of mine.

If you close your heart, you dismiss an opportunity to go beyond the river, on the other shore, and experience that undefinable peace which brings tears of bliss out the eyes.

It seems to me that maybe one in a million might make it to enlightenment practicing the 8 fold path, or compassionate meditation. To be honest I do not think it realistic to achieve enlightenment that way unless we can boost the human lifespan 1000 fold. I view enlightenment as much of a physiological transformation as it is a spiritual one.. Both my logic and my intuition tell me that the best path for me is energetic in its nature...

I have one singular goal, and that is to wake up. After I cease the cycle of death and rebirth, maybe then I can achieve enlightenment and maybe then I can worry about fixing all the worlds ills if that is even still relevant at that point.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see people and beings suffer. I want to help, I want this world to become a heaven on earth, but I have my own path to walk and I know at my core I don't have time to waste.

Again I am sorry if I have offended anyone, I wish you all the best, if anyone would like to talk with me further my email address is near the top of this page.

**Akemi** · 21 April 2007, 02:32 AM

Dear maynoth,

I hope you do not quit posting. Things were just starting to get interesting.

My dearest Maxime,

Your posts in this thread have been insightful and clear. I am very grateful at having read them.

Maynoth,

Your last post shows that you have educated yourself very well on the subject. I believe you are sincere. Your last post also shows the boundaries you have yet to cross. I believe your intellect is hampering your way. You may have indeed experienced a 'momentary enlightenment', or a satori. Many of my brothers and sisters (myself included) have experienced this very blessing, and continue to do so as a benefit of our chi kung practice. Yes, they are indeed, momentary. But every time it happens, the experience touches us at our very core, and begins to re-shape our very molecules.

I used to be desperate to free myself from the binding chains of rebirth. I was born into a very spiritual family. I have been educated in the way since birth. May I say that I have had a lot of 'intellectual' training in spirituality, which to a true knower, is a contradiction. Reading books and spending time with spiritual people does not beget enlightenment. I was very sincere, though.

I can tell you that after 20 years of training, I was still very egocentric. Very young. I still am. But in the past two years I have been on an accelerated path. I can feel myself closer to true Freedom. I had a deadly disease two years ago. I have written about how a few trees outside my window lifted me out of a death wish and into a joyful path.

Maxime is correct. Gratefulness is a skill, a practice. I experience bliss daily, if only for a few seconds. Those few amazing seconds of just being bring me closer to a constant state of Freedom.

There is nothing to measure, maynoth. My advice is that you balance the time you spend measuring brain waves with simply existing in a joyful and grateful place. Note that I said simple, I have not said that it will be easy.

You may find your desperation will wane.

My sincere wishes for your happiness,

**Omar** · 21 April 2007, 07:01 AM

Dear maynoth, your motivation is admiringly strong, keep it that way!

But do not keep desiring to be free, to be enlightened; you will run in the opposite direction this way.

Enjoy the long road there, for here, now is what matters, not there or then.

Falling unconcious and getting to a hospital due to streneous meditation is going way too fast (wrong), things happen when they happen if they happen.

Best of luck on your practise

**Racheli** · 21 April 2007, 01:53 PM

Dear maynoth,

Welcome,

I would like to share with you that I was looking for the same :

accelerated path

as you are.
I too had experienced illuminating episodes and searched for a way in which I could feel re-connected to the world from a higher or more real place.
This is how I got to learn with Sifu and feel truly blessed I found him.
To experience Satori or enlightenment is nothing if it doesn't make you a better person. This is what the people here are trying to tell you - the

accelerated path

is in moral conduct, in becoming a more loving and caring human being. This is the basic truth of all cultures and religions.
My best advise to you is to find your special way in life that will bring happiness to yourself and others. Stop asking why and how, empty your mind and start practicing being an active and possitive part of society.

Good luck

**barrys** · 21 April 2007, 03:35 PM

Maynoth,

I thought you might find some of the answers in this Q&A useful.

http://shaolin.org/answers/ans02a/feb02-2.html

With metta,

Barry

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