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  • Power of the Internal Arts

    Some time ago, I bought and read Bruce Kumar Frantzis’book “The Power of the Internal Arts – Combat Secrets of Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Hsing Yi”. I found it a very fascinating book.

    Among many other goodies, the book makes it clear that one does not jump into free sparring but must train in a systematic step by step manner, beginning with basic form and patterns to one-step sparring, then Push Hands, another intermediate stage after that and then free sparring. I found that this resonates very much with our own methodology.
    In addition, the author’s constant and recurring emphasis on zhan zhuang was further verification of the importance of this exercise, as if we needed any confirmation of this.

    One very useful section was the comparison of the three internal arts which inspired me to begin a thread in the Shen Men Tao thread. I don’t want to say too much about the contents of the book but I think it is a very good read, and Sifu himself has quoted from this book before in his Questions and Answers.

    As I read through the reviews in the Amazon website on this book, I was mostly amused and at some point annoyed at reviews that complained that the book did not give out any secrets despite its title. I will say this: the book has loads of secrets. It is just that people who want a step by step illustration and photographs and “how to do” list will be disappointed. I simply cannot understand why some people insist on believing that they can learn advanced arts from a book.

    I don’t think it is possible to write down some of the secrets, and even if that were done, they may not be recognized as secrets, but as common sense. One example: The author notes that there are covert and hidden applications of Peng, Lv, Ji, An and the hidden applications can only be pointed out by a Taijiquan adept. Then he goes on to actually say what these applications can be, such as the fact that Lv can be applied when moving the arm or body forward. That one line opened up several possibilities for me, for example in how I would apply Fair Lady or Wild Horse Spreads Mane. If total novices want to be spoon-fed secrets, I suppose that can be done, but I doubt it would do them any good.

    Another silly complaint was about how the author seems to be promoting his own seminars and other works instead of giving out the secrets in the book. This is sometimes a valid complaint but not here. I read the book from cover to cover and saw all the footnotes where references to the author’s classes or other books are mentioned. It is quite clear to me that in those instances, it was really not possible or impractical to give details. I think those who have read Sifu’s books will understand that despite Sifu’s clear and simple instructions, many things just cannot be transmitted from a written page.
    百德以孝为先
    Persevere in correct practice

  • #2
    no power in the internal arts

    I have seen very limited expression of power in the internal arts. What I have seen is a lot of posturing as expressed in character and attitude and less skill when compared to those who do external arts. Keeping in mind, internal and external (to my understanding) are actually levels of training or comprehension.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Power in the Internal Arts!

      Yeniseri:

      If you "have seen very limited expression of power in the internal arts....and less skill when compared to those who do external arts".....then you are obviously associating with the wrong crowd and are only seeing novice or low intermediate level internal arts practitioners....regardless of whatever rank or length of experience they may claim to have.

      Please come to visit me for a bit of personal physical interaction. I promise you'll leave here with a totally new and different perspective on the expression of both internal power and external power in the Internal Arts!
      http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SifuStier
        Yeniseri:

        If you "have seen very limited expression of power in the internal arts....and less skill when compared to those who do external arts".....then you are obviously associating with the wrong crowd and are only seeing novice or low intermediate level internal arts practitioners....regardless of whatever rank or length of experience they may claim to have.

        Please come to visit me for a bit of personal physical interaction. I promise you'll leave here with a totally new and different perspective on the expression of both internal power and external power in the Internal Arts!
        Hehehehehe

        Divineshadow
        "Om"

        I pay homage to all the great masters of the past and the present

        Comment


        • #5
          OK

          Sifu Stier,

          Thanks for the invitation.

          I will take you up on that one day. My own teachers had some degree of skill but my reality is that few teachers today possess it. Just making an honest observation on what passes for skill today is less than!

          I frequently see the vast expanse of peng, lu, ji an, etc being bandied about in fotos but when I observe those same people face to face, their foto op and the result is vastly different. Some say you have to be their student to feel the 'internal'. others say it takes time to develop (obviously) and the excuses go one.


          Do you teach martial expression as part of your system?
          How many people, other than yourself, can carry themselves in any occasion?
          A basic question that applies to all systems.

          Thanks

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeniseri:

            A far greater number of people are learning, practicing, and teaching all of the major Internal Arts today compared to overall numbers of 40 years ago and longer...but unfortunately the percentage of those who achieve high level skills and expertise with any of these Arts has not increased proportionately. For example...despite the worldwide 'fad' popularity of Tai-Chi since the 1960's, there are probably fewer genuine Tai-Chi Masters than ever before. What's wrong with that picture?

            Extraordinary skill requires extraordinary efforts! There have never been many practitioners in any generation who were willing to make such efforts. Too bad! Lots of wasted potential that could be tapped in these arts if only more motivation and self-discipline was there. But apparently.... NO WAY!

            The kinds of excuses given to you for lack of excellence are exactly that....just excuses for an inability to produce a good personal demonstration of accomplishment. Period!

            Shen Men Tao has never been presented as a New Age Health Exercise or a Meditation in Motion...and so forth. It has always been and still is taught primarily as a Soft/Internal Chinese Kung-Fu System. I have no intention of changing that. The Health and Spiritual Self-Cultivation benefits are certainly many...and highly valued...but the martial expression of the arts is the top agenda priority and will remain so!
            http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

            Comment


            • #7
              Power in Internal

              Yensiri,

              your point on expression of power is well noted. Before I trained with Sifu Stier I felt the same way. I wondered and wondered and wondered. Then I trained with Sifu and thru the system various types of power began to manifest. For example (overtime something like this),

              first some centeredness and stability with relaxation;
              second unbendable arm with no thinking about unbendableness while remaining flexible;
              third evasion and neutralization with a mild pushing out of the opponent but they would go pretty far;
              then more of a rootedness than centeredness (although Sifu would always disagree... I think to egg me further);
              then ability to issue with smaller movement (inconsistent but there);
              then more of both sometimes with awe inspiring distance and bounce (usu. when I was not thinking about).
              And when I get out of the way more power and various types of power and issuing from the the training along with a sense of how far i want them to go when they are vunerable. To be sure, I lost many time before I started to get it.

              I probably should not have said this but it is pretty cool cause i wonder so long about how to apply intneral from an interanl point of view. And as Sifu taughht me, I can not make it happen but I can allow it to happen by training and getting my ego out of the way. When I do this I have to have calm mind because the results are so inspiring that I bring my self out of my best applications. That is in my opinion one of the reasons for the calm mind so that ego does nt step back in when your best postures show up in application. Stay calm so that the job and beautiful powerful flow can finish. then I go, "Wow did I do that."

              I hope I do not sound too crazy. But be cool ad train. Thank you Sifu Stier.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yo, JP!

                You da man! You are very welcome! It has been my tremendous pleasure to teach someone so naturally gifted as you are...and to watch you grow within this System and develop your skills to ever higher levels of ability.

                I am very proud of how you represent Shen Men Tao as a practitioner and as a teacher. Thank you for your continuing efforts and support in this regard!

                Best wishes to you and your family now and always!
                http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

                Comment


                • #9


                  Check out the author using Bagua against what looks like Karate or Taekwondo.
                  Click on fighting, then click on the image to the left.
                  http://www.liberty-human-rights.org....ig-brother.pdf www.amnesty.org www.indymedia.org.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Marcus!

                    It's one thing to 'throw' an unskilled, cooperative opponent who employs slow, half-hearted attacks with no power from a running approach...since the forward momentum of such attacks is easy to work with and defeat...and an entirely different matter to use Pa-Kua to defend against a skilled, non-cooperative opponent who launches fast, powerful attacks from a mostly fixed position at close range....without much body weight momentum to use against him.

                    The latter scenario is much more difficult to address...and demands considerably greater application expertise than anything shown in this clip!
                    http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Video

                      I could not get it to run. I would like to see... It may be operator error.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        hi Sifu Stier,

                        I was also somewhat disappointed with the clip. However i've heard that BK Frantzis has a reputation for being a good fighter and has proven his skills against american martial artists. Maybe he was demonstrating slowly or something, I don't know!?
                        http://www.liberty-human-rights.org....ig-brother.pdf www.amnesty.org www.indymedia.org.uk

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zhang Wuji
                          Some time ago, I bought and read Bruce Kumar Frantzis’book “The Power of the Internal Arts – Combat Secrets of Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Hsing Yi”. I found it a very fascinating book.
                          I just bought this book and have started reading it. Seems very interesting so far.
                          -- Chris Hudson

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