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There was a proper reason I did it.I was not trying some sort of viral marketing for a site I have no knowledge of until yesterday.It came up when I was messing about on google.
I wanted the members to see the whole long thread as I thought they would find it interesting either positively or negatively.
Ok the question.
"is there any scientific or any real evidence that the dantien exists and that it is where human energy is stored?"
All the best,Pete
Last edited by chi4life; 15 December 2011, 07:38 PM.
I would have really enjoyed that sort of thread earlier in my practice, but now? I'd rather experience my dan tian than read about some abstract dan tian.
The answers you get, may not be what you were hoping for. But to be honest, for the majority of people with training in Shaolin Wahnam, it's a really silly question.
Of course it's real. We experience it daily. It's as real as our skin, as mountains, and as cars. In fact, I am sure some will tell you from their own direct experience that the dantien is more real than the rest of the items I just listed.
The problem lies within the contraints of the question. It's like asking, "Are apples sweet? Please explain using the colors of the rainbow." Yes, apples are sweet. But to someone who has never eaten an apple, you'll be hard pressed to get them to understand by talking about colors.
No I wasnt Antonius ,sorry this thread has gone Toxic ,its the last thing I wanted.
I was really interested in what people had to say on this matter.
There was no other reason I put the question up.
But I have to say Antonius you putting your response the way you did ,well I felt like a child being admonished.
There wasnt much smiling from your heart when you made that post and you know that dont you.
I wish you all a Merry christmas and a great 2012,Pete.
Goodbye.
Happy holidays to you too, Pete. Here are my thoughts. I think that you make way too many false assumptions about what people mean, and you jump to negative conclusions based on those false assumptions. This is a dangerous habit, especially on an internet forum. It's even worse if the internet forum is acting as to a virtual kwoon for a traditional Shaolin school.
For your benefit, I'll elaborate. My posts were not meant to treat you like a child. You projected that meaning onto my words. You did the same thing with "that bloke", who I assume is Chiahua. You made assumptions, then you jumped to conclusions, and then you went so far as to insult him (and me) based on those false conclusions.
Let me ask you a question:Do you think that, based on a few words that you read on a computer screen, it's logical for you to conclude that I don't know how to smile from the heart?
By the way, I'm a moderator on this forum, in case you didn't know. It's my job to keep things in order here. I'm also the Chief Instructor of Shaolin Wahnam USA, I run my own school in Florida, and I've taught over 1000 students. I've been with Sifu Wong since 1997, and I happen to be the senior brother to your Sifu, Barry. From now on, it would be respectful for you to refer to me as "Sipak" (which means Senior Uncle) rather than Antonius.
On topic: During my Karate years, I wondered if dantian was real. People talked about it, but it seemed like a fantasy, not a reality. Today, I can say that my dantian is as real as my nose. My dantian is a warm, pearl-sized ball of energy, just like the classics describe. I don't know if science can confirm it, but I don't care any more. Science can't even confirm chi, so I don't really expect them to understand dantian.
However, a simple voltmeter can confirm the various acupuncture points on the body. So maybe Western science is catching up to ancient Eastern wisdom?
Last edited by Antonius; 17 December 2011, 06:58 PM.
However, a simple voltmeter can confirm the various acupuncture points on the body. So maybe Western science is catching up to ancient Eastern wisdom?
Thank you for that apt quote Sifu Anthony Korahais .
The Energy Arts ( eg Shaolin Chi Kung ) does not make modern science obsolete , in as much as Einsteintanian relativity and quantum physics does not make Newtonian Science incorrect or obsolete.....the former just places the latter in a wider context .
In fact the trend of " limited modern science catching up with holistic ancient arts " is also seen in the fiercely dogmatic field of modern western medicine where terms like " energy medicine" and "psyco-oncology " are now acceptable without the progressives being but in jail .
Pete , after all , everything is ultimately energy ( proven by the most fundamental science of quantum physics ) whether it's the computer screen you are staring at or the tan tien near your navel .
.....
< “Dan tian” (tan tien) literally means “elixir field”. “Elixir” refers to vital energy that has consolidated into a pearl. Hence, dan tian refers to a spot in a person's body where his vital energy has accumulated into a field.
As a chi kung practitioner can accumulates his energy in a field at various spots in his body, there are various energy fields or dan tian. Theoretically there are countless energy fields as there are countless spots where a practitioner may choose to accumulate his energy, but in practice these energy fields are located in certain specific spots as these spots represent the ideal positions where energy should be accumulated.
The most ideal position for storing energy is at the qi-hai vital point or the guan-yuan vital point, which are respectively two “inches” or three "inches' below the naval, and about two “inches” beneath the skin surface at the abdomen. The "inch" here is neither the Chinese inch nor the British inch, but a biological inch, which is the distance between the first and the second joints of the right index finger of the person in question. Qi-hai means “sea of energy”, and guan-yuan means “gate of origin”. They are so named because when a person relaxes totally, his energy, if it is flowing well, will naturally accumulate at qi-hai; it was from guan-yuan that his original energy first blossomed into his life-long growth.
Every person obtained his (or her) original energy from his father and mother. Realizing this fact, anyone with some human sense will be kind to his parents. Only those who do not even have cow-sense will consider his conceptual moment, which was both beautiful and sacred and which produced his original energy, as an unfortunate accident.
The qi-hai dan tian or the guan-yuan dan tian is called the abdominal dan tian, to be distinguished from other dan tian, but because it is the most important, when the term “dan tian” is mentioned without any qualifying prefix, it usually refers to the abdominal dan tian. You are right in saying that the dan tian is about 3 or 4 fingers' width below the naval and beneath the skin, as 2 or 3 biological inches is about 3 or 4 fingers' width.
Other dan tian include the top dan tian at bai-hui and tian-mu, the middle dan tian at tan zhong, the low dan tian at hui-yin, the back dan tian at ming-men and ling=tai, the hand dan tian at lao-gong and the foot dan tian at yong-chuan. Apart from the hand and the foot dan tian, the other dan tian are located along the ren mai and the du mai, or the conceptual meridian and the governing meridain.
Instead of (or after) circulating energy flow along the ren mai and the du mai, the break-through of which is called attaining the Small Universe (or micro-cosmic flow), many Taoist cultivators accumulate their energy in fields along the axis of the body, i.e. the perpendicular from the base of the spine at hui-yin to the top of the head at bai-hui.
Between these two bottom and top energy fields are two lower and middle energy fields, known respectively as huang-ting (yellow palace) and chong ting (central palace). The huang-ting energy field is behind the guan-yuan energy field (the one you mentioned in your question), and the chong-ting energy field is behind the tan- zhong energy field. >
Is there scientific evidence of chi or qi or chi fields ?
Answer : Yes . Additionally , chi-application ( eg in healing as in Chinese medicine ) has been efficacious for thousands of years long before the birth ( and stil evolving ) of modern science .
..... " Numerous experiments were carried out under strict scientific conditions both inside China and outside which proved conclusively that qi is real, and that qigong, besides having other uses, is a genuine healing art.
For example, the Qing Hua University in Bejing, one of the most prestigious universities of China, conducted many experiments with the great qigong master, Yan Xin, which showed that qi is real and has measurable influences on matter. These scientific experiments were supervised by top Chinese scientists, including Professor Qian Xue Sen, the father of the Chinese rocket.
Numerous hospitals in China, particularly the People's Hospital of Shanghai, conducted many scientific experiments which conclusively showed that practising qigong enables many patients to recover from their diseases.
Numerous scientific experiments were also conducted outside China. Dr Kenneth Sancier of the United States, whom I had the pleasure to meet at the Second World Qigong Congress in San Francisco in 1997, is a leader in this field, and he has tirelessly collected volumes of scientific reports on qigong, gallantly attempting to bring its wonderful benefits to the Western public.
At this Second World Qigong Congress, Professor Fang Li Da of China, a medical doctor trained at the world-famous Harvard School of Medicine, provided convincing evidence from her many years of research that practising qigong can overcome cancer. For her brilliant research, she was named “Qigong Research Scientist of the Year”.
There were many top scientists and qigong masters at this Second World Qigong Congress. A special committee edited the findings and reports of the Congress and submitted recommendations to relevant authorities at both the United States government and the United Nations Organization. " .....
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Thank you for that apt quote Sifu Anthony Korahais .
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