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  • #16
    "Ip Man... Wing Chun!"

    My favourite phrase from the movie. For those who don't know, Chinese is a very consise language and you never repeat things which are already clear! What Donnie Yen (as Ip Man) actionly meant with this phrase was the following: In kung fu tradition, before a duel starts, them oponents introduce themsleves first before they start to fight. In English the same sentences would be something like:

    "My name is Ip Man and I represent the Wing Chun style (of kung fu)!" I just love the the Chinese concise version!

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    • #17
      I as a kung fu movie expert (sorry, I have no great ego but compared to many others I know a lot about kung fu movies) I like to clarify some points:

      Ip Man is a great kung fu movie and of the new generation of kung fu movies (starting from the year 2000) together with Huo Yuan Chia (Fearless) the best.

      Donnie Yen learnt Wing Chun from Ip Chung (Ip Man's son) for this movie, so we definitely see some real Wing Chun in the movie. The martial arts director of the movie is Sammo Hung (the fat older Peking Opera brother of Jackie Chan) who also have a high level in Wing Chun. But Sammo said to portray pure Wing Chun kung fu in a movie it would be too boring to watch and he is right. For the eye, Wing Chun is the most unspectacular and unflowery kung fu style of all. So, there are many additional and not-Wing Chun moves. Also, sometimes they use wires. For those who watch lots of movies it's very obvious. But it's right, for a kung fu movie of the new generation it uses much less wires than most others.

      The northern stylist uses both kinds of kicks, traditional real northern kick techniques and modern wushu/acrobatic kicks.

      One mentioned that Huo Yuan Chia (Fearless) was a crap! This is completely untrue. Like Ip Man they use not much wires (compared to other new generation kung fu movies, though a bit more than in Ip Man). And they also use some nice real applications/combinations of real traditional patterns.

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      • #18
        I recommend another kung fu movie with great kung fu (use see and get a explanation of many not so well known styles), great wushu and great choreography but with a horrible Chinese propaganda story. It's insofar interesting because there is a conflict between the traditional kung fu and the modern wushu.

        Name of the movie: Duo biao (English Title: Champions); but I guess only available in Asia.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Ronny View Post
          Ip Man is a great kung fu movie and of the new generation of kung fu movies (starting from the year 2000) together with Huo Yuan Chia (Fearless) the best.
          I'm sorry dear elder expert brother, but I cannot stay quiet that you did not mention Wo hu cang long (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) at least on par with the other two.

          Other that that, I agree that Ip Man and Fearless are the 2nd and 3rd best wuxia films post the year 2000.

          Offcourse, when it comes to includign genuine kungfu patterns and techniques in the film, the two you mentioned are very well crafted compared to most moveis who tend to rely heavily on wires and wushu (Hero with Jet Li for example).
          When one door closes, another one opens.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Omar View Post
            I'm sorry dear elder expert brother, but I cannot stay quiet that you did not mention Wo hu cang long (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) at least on par with the other two.

            Other that that, I agree that Ip Man and Fearless are the 2nd and 3rd best wuxia films post the year 2000.

            Offcourse, when it comes to includign genuine kungfu patterns and techniques in the film, the two you mentioned are very well crafted compared to most moveis who tend to rely heavily on wires and wushu (Hero with Jet Li for example).
            Sorry Omar, but you mixed something up! Wo hu cang long (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon) IS NOT A KUNG FU MOVIE! It is a wuxia movie and Fearless and Ip Man ARE NOT WUXIA MOVIES, they are kung fu movies! I have to clarify one important point when it comes to Chinese martial arts movies. Basically there are two kind of genres:

            1. Kung fu pian = (physically) realistic kung fu movies which rely mostly on the technical and physical strength of the protagonists, gained through years of hard training, (incl. also Iron Shirt, Iron Palm (Fist); Iron Leg, Qing Gong (very high jumps) and acrobatics). Usually the fights are mostly grounded, not many high jumps and flying. Almost no special effects are used. Wires are not much used. The stories are often based on real history and/or on real heroes and villains, or, if fictional, at least the stories are somehow believable.
            Classical example: The 36th Chamber of Shaolin, modern example: Ip Man

            2. Wuxia pian = Chinese Swordsmen/Swordswomen movies where empty hand fighting is almost absent. The stories are mostly fictional fantasy movies (but can be set in historical time). Special effects and wires are heavily used. The warriors flying around and have magic or supernatural skills. They are above the technical, physical level, and they emphasize more on the magical skills and only have to use also their (basic) kung fu if they have to fight an opponent on an equal level (which is of course the case in the movies, to make the fights more interesting). Often, also Ghosts, Monsters, Divine Beings and Demons appear and also fight.
            Examples: A Chinese Ghost Story Trilogy, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

            There is a 3rd kind:

            Wuda pain = movies set in modern time where guns are used but as soon as guns are empty or the protagonists are disarmed it goes over to (street fight) kung fu fighting. Often the hero is a policeman or from a special unit (who often had to give away is police badge and therefore is gun). The villains are often the Triads (Chinese mafia) or the Yakuza (Japanese mafia).

            Examples: Police Story movies, Sha Po Long (Killzone)

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            • #21
              Totally agree with Sifu Ronny. I am a Chinese and I like all sorts of chinese movies, I must admit that he is indeed a chinese kungfu movie expert.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by qingui View Post
                Totally agree with Sifu Ronny. I am a Chinese and I like all sorts of chinese movies, I must admit that he is indeed a chinese kungfu movie expert.
                Agreed with qingui ( BTW qingui is a senior chi kung student of Sifu in Sabah and my former good boss at the XR department ) and Sifu Ronny is also an expert in chinese kungfu and chi kung .

                Maybe ,one day , Shaolin Wahnam will produce a kungfu movie .....there are already movie directors and good pool of actors/actresses in Wahnam ; The aim will be to spread/preserve Shaolin Arts via good entertainment . And the movie title , maybe " Journey to the West ".....and we seem to have more caucasian experts rather then asians in chinese things
                Damian Kissey
                Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
                www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

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                • #23
                  Greetings and Salam to qinqui Sihing.

                  Originally posted by Damian Kissey View Post
                  Maybe ,one day , Shaolin Wahnam will produce a kungfu movie .....there are already movie directors and good pool of actors/actresses in Wahnam ; The aim will be to spread/preserve Shaolin Arts via good entertainment . And the movie title , maybe " Journey to the West ".....and we seem to have more caucasian experts rather then asians in chinese things
                  I am looking forward to it.

                  Joko
                  开心 好运气
                  kai xin... .......hao yunqi... - Sifu's speech, April 2005
                  open heart... good chi flow... good luck ...
                  ------------------------------------------------------------
                  Have we not opened up thy heart ...? (The Reading, 94:1)
                  ------------------------------------------------------------
                  Be joyful, ..and share your joy with others -(Anand Krishna)

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                  • #24
                    Or maybe a documentary
                    "Take a moment to feel how wonderful it feels just to be alive."
                    - Sifu

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                    • #25
                      [QUOTE and we seem to have more caucasian experts rather then asians in chinese things [/QUOTE]

                      ... and probably the best pianist in the world is Chinese, Lang Lang

                      To be honest, I'm seriously in preparation of becoming a movie maker, and of course when I will do my own movies I'm heavily interested in doing a kung fu movie!

                      I mean we can say what we want about movies but how many of us get interested in kung fu or were influenced/motivated by kung fu movies to start kung fu training?

                      With movies you can have more influence on people than every politician. Always when I'm in a foreign country, surrounded by foreign people and somehow there is a blocked atmosphere I often start to talk about a movie and soon we have a nice conversation which often is the start of a new friendship

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                      • #26
                        Ip Man 2 review

                        I can't seem to find any reviews about this latest movie on the forum. I thought I saw two links earlier this year posted in this forum to the trailers, and was trying to post in that thread. Those links were not to the Ip Man 2 movie but I did not know that, because they also featured Sammo Hung. They were about the prequel The Legend is Born: Ip Man. If anyone can point me to that thread, I will be very grateful.Anyway, I was looking out in vain for those scenes in the trailer when watching Ip Man 2.

                        I am definitely catching the prequel - some may say that it is just another movie jumping on the bandwagon, but I will stick my neck out and say, based on the trailer, this movie seems even better than the first two Ip Man movies.

                        Back to the movie proper. I am not wild about this sequel, and I hear that those who watched the movie with Sifu in Penang had mixed reviews. I even heard about Sifu's reaction. I gotta go now, but will be back with my review.
                        百德以孝为先
                        Persevere in correct practice

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                        • #27
                          Okay....I won't bother with a synopsis of the movie, so let's go right into the review.

                          Fighting scenes

                          I actually found the very first scene the best - when Ip Man was teaching his first potential student a lesson. I think the scene highlights a number of important points that Sifu often deals with:

                          a) simple strikes and blocks are effective against someone using simple strikes. When the level of sophistication goes beyond straight punches and forward kicks, the simplistic fighter may have no way to counter the more advanced technqiues. However, as the bad-guy boxer proved, simple strikes can and often are the best when one has the force and skill to back them up.

                          b) sparring against people who do not appreciate your reluctance to hurt them can be very frustrating. When you pull your punches or ramp down your lethality, they think you did not hurt them and carry on.

                          c) winning a fight is not always the end of the matter. Fight if you must, but avoid one if you can, because it is not just the battle but the reprisals and consequences that you need to deal with.

                          I jump to the fish market scene. Is it me or does anyone else find the whole action sequence somewhat contrived? I think the editor was kind of lazy but it was obvious some of the bad guys were just standing behind Ip Man and waiting for their turn to attack Ip Man when he turned around.

                          Now to the master scene where he battled the three masters on the round table. This is where I got boiling mad. I understand if Wing Chun is to be showcased, the director must show it at its best, but was it necessary to put down the other arts? Sammo Hung's Hung Gar was cast in a positive light, Hung Gar being very popular and ubiquitous in Hong Kong. But the two other arts, Monkey / Praying Mantis and Baguazhang (???) were performed by clownish strawmen (the actors are however martial arts masters or practitioners in their own right, but they were forced to act dumb for this movie). People in the cinema were laughing at the Baguazhang "master" for turning his back on the opponent and making a silly poise.

                          Let's just say that even a newbie Baguazhang student would have done loads better than this fake Baguazhang master. The master's movements were awkward, wooden and hesitant, nothing like what the fluid motions of Baguazhang look like.

                          Now that I have gotten that grouse off my chest, I move on to the fight with Sammo Hung. It is quite clear that the defining characteristic of the fight was solid stances, and Ip Man was more than once thrown off by Hung's internal force. The fight looked like a contrast between force and agility (although the two were not mutually exclusive).
                          百德以孝为先
                          Persevere in correct practice

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I agree that the other styles especially the Bagua master was there just as comic relief and buildup to the scene with Sammo Hung's character vs Ip Man.

                            Here is some proper Baguazhang form and movement for comparison.
                            Given the name "The Yangtze River Great Chivalrous Man", Taoist Master Lu Zijian performs his bagua at the age of 93. Lu Zijian learned his bagua from a Taoi...


                            As I understand Sammo Hung had heart surgery not long ago, that makes his performance in this movie quite impressive. It is a ok movie overall, it's always fun to see a movie without a single gunshot despite all the action.

                            The British boxer and police chief were quite unsympathetically portrayed, but such personalities did and does exist so I'm not gonna say they played the stereotype card too heavily. Overall, I enjoyed the first movie more.
                            When one door closes, another one opens.

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                            • #29
                              Hello Wuji,

                              I met Calvin on the Wingchun course, and heard much of you. I hope one day can visit your class in Singapore, or even train with Wahnam members there.

                              I think the post you mentioned is in "Upcoming Wing Choon course, unveiling of more secrets" post.

                              I like your review.

                              Most of the Kungfu mass fight scenes, bad guys will just wait and take turn to beat the hero, which I think not realistic. It seems that Ip Man (inthe movie) is reluctant to use "one-strike-and-seriously-injure" technique, and resort to numerous fast punches.

                              I also not feeling nice when seeing the way Baguazhang and Praying Mantis master portrayed in the movie. Anyway, any martial arts can be showcased as the best in any dedicated movie to that art.
                              Jason Yap

                              修身

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                              • #30
                                And, people in the Penang cinema were also laughing at the Baguazhang "master" for turning his back on the opponent and making a silly poise....
                                Jason Yap

                                修身

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