Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

chi power test

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by DoubleA View Post
    Thanks for your response. I guess my question for you would be...if that was supposed to be a chi test to see how much chi you have...would that mean that #1 the test is not valid, #2 they are not sensitive to their chi, #3 they have very little chi #4 None of the above ?

    Thanks for your time, and willingess to answer my questions,
    DoubleA
    The following is my interpretation based only on my own experience and what I've read.

    My answer is "1", because the test is not valid if the tester is not in a qigong state of mind. However, the test could also be valid, if the tester is in a qigong state of mind. So, my answer is also "not 1". (I just tried this both in and out of a qigong state of mind, and it only works for me when I'm in. 20 bucks says that this is why the intellectuals didn't feel anything)

    My answer is also "2", because if the person doing this test is in a qigong state of mind, and yet feels nothing, they could be insensitive to their qi. Of course, even if they're sensitive to their qi, and they are in a qigong state of mine, they may feel little to nothing, just as some days during practice, I feel large amounts of qi effects during a dynamic pattern, and on other days I feel little to nothing until I go into qi flow. So, my answer is also "not 2".

    Now, I'm going to alter number three, because, as Sifu says, even if a person has a lot of qi, if it's locked up in the muscles it won't flow very well. So, I'm going to read number 3 as "very little chi free to flow to the palms and between them". And my answer is going to be, you guessed it, both "3" and "not 3". "3" is a very real possibility, while "not 3" just means that even if this particular instance it's also "not 1" and "not 2" the person could still not feel what this man is describing, merely because qi effect differ from person to person and sometimes from day to day.

    So, because I answered both all 3 choices yet none of the 3 choices, my final answer is 4, with strong leanings toward 1, because if you already know how to go into a qigong state of mind, chances are pretty good that you know what qi feels like and have a rough estimate of how much you have. Again, please remember that these are just my interpretations of this test, and an attempt to honestly answer your questions.


    So here's my question to you:
    Why bother with a test like this that does nothing other than give you an interesting sensation, when you could be doing something that would give you a lasting effect? I mean, sure, the interesting effects may take longer, but even when I was practicing on my own from Sifu's books, it took me 2-4 weeks to get an induced qi flow without aiming for one specifically. (to be fair, that scared the crap out of me because I wasn't expecting it and it just kinda happened after I finished Lifting the Sky and lied down to go to sleep)

    Also, a relevant quote from the Q&A:
    Originally posted by Sifu's Q&A April 2001 (part 3)
    Question 8
    Some days ago I saw a webpage teaching a technique to make "Chi Balls" that could be used in combat situations, and also some kind of Chi Field to protect you from several attacks. Is that real, or is it just some kind of myth that this person used to get people visit his webpage?
    Federico, Argentina


    Answer 8
    It is quite easy to make "chi balls" and "chi fields". You can actually make them in 10 minutes. The methods are simple and safe, and are as follows. You can try them for fun.

    Place your two palms close together, about 6 inches apart, in front of your body. Slowly and gently bring them closer together to about 2 or 3 inches apart. Then slowly and gently bring them farther apart, to about 6 inches and then 1 foot. Repeat many times until you can feel some magnetism or electric currents between your two palms. You have successfully created a "chi ball".

    The movements of your palms need not necessarily be horizontal. They can be at any angles, but the palms must be facing each other . You may perform this and the following exercise standing, sitting or in any comfortable, but you must be focused and relaxed.

    Now gently place your "chi ball" above your head, and gently think of the chi flowing down, covering your body. Use your palms to gently stroke down your body, a few inches above your skin, to help the chi make a "chi field" around your body. You can also make a "chi field" around your friend's body.

    The "chi ball" and the "chi field" are real, but for most people they are so weak that their effects are marginal. But a master who has practised these exercises for, say, more than twenty years, and coupled with other techniques and skills, can use the "chi ball" to strike others, and the "chi field" to protect himself from attacks.

    Thus, what is described in the said webpage is real, not a myth, but it is misleading and the purpose is probably to attract people to the webpage. If your purpose is to strike others, you would achieve 10 times more effect by practising to strike your palms on empty air in front of you, than by making and using "chi balls".
    So, from what Sifu says a beginner would probably need to repeat "many times" to feel the effects described in the video and by Sifu. He also says "You can actually make them in 10 minutes." I'm assuming that since what the man in the video is describing is a qi ball, then the same would be true for them, hence it could probably take up to 10 minutes for someone to feel the effects.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by DoubleA View Post
      Thanks for your response. I guess my question for you would be...if that was supposed to be a chi test to see how much chi you have...would that mean that #1 the test is not valid, #2 they are not sensitive to their chi, #3 they have very little chi #4 None of the above ?

      DoubleA
      I've been periodically trying this test since you posted this video.....and laughing to myself a the absurdity of it. I've felt nothing also. I'm not sure that I could be called a believer in Chi, although I practise Chi Kung at the beginning of my practise session everyday and feel the benefits immensely. I'm one of those that does not like to discount the existence of Chi nor do I wholeheartedly embrace the idea of it's existence.
      On friday evening I did this test on the 18 Wing Tsun students. On friday morning at 9.00am I was filming with the BBC.......and I was very nervous. They filmed me taking to two other people and then they had to get shots of them listening and nodding so I had to talk to them about anything I wanted as they just needed cut away shots for when the whole thing was edited together. Since this test was on my mind I spoke about it to the TV presenter. I was just really saying that I thought it was ridiculous bringing your palms closer together and feeling the magnetic opposite poles thingy. As I was doing it I suddenly could not get my palms closer together as I was feeling it extremely strongly. I was shocked. 5 minutes later when all the shots had been taken I went outside and did it again. Nothing.
      What can I conclude from this? What does everyone else conclude from this?
      The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. Oscar Wilde

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Darran View Post
        I've been periodically trying this test since you posted this video.....and laughing to myself a the absurdity of it. I've felt nothing also. I'm not sure that I could be called a believer in Chi, although I practise Chi Kung at the beginning of my practise session everyday and feel the benefits immensely. I'm one of those that does not like to discount the existence of Chi nor do I wholeheartedly embrace the idea of it's existence.
        On friday evening I did this test on the 18 Wing Tsun students. On friday morning at 9.00am I was filming with the BBC.......and I was very nervous. They filmed me taking to two other people and then they had to get shots of them listening and nodding so I had to talk to them about anything I wanted as they just needed cut away shots for when the whole thing was edited together. Since this test was on my mind I spoke about it to the TV presenter. I was just really saying that I thought it was ridiculous bringing your palms closer together and feeling the magnetic opposite poles thingy. As I was doing it I suddenly could not get my palms closer together as I was feeling it extremely strongly. I was shocked. 5 minutes later when all the shots had been taken I went outside and did it again. Nothing.
        What can I conclude from this? What does everyone else conclude from this?
        I think you may have already answered your question, seeing as you were nervous in front of the BBC camera's which was not allowing yourself to relax and focus, and as it seems you were able to focus and get into the "Chi Kung state of mind" as we call it for five mintues and get the sensation of "Holding a ball" as it is called in Tai chi and Kung fu, Chi Kung Practices, try doing these excerises on your own time in an relaxed enviroment, this way you can most effectively study Chi on your own.
        But then agian if you did feel it strongly then you yourself have a strong amount of chi built up which means then you can do this exercise with the right concentration. Just remember to relax your hands and arms, keep your elbows near the ribs and focus only on the hands then imagine energy flowing into the hands as you are moving them back and forth, if again you feel the sensation, and if posible while in this state move the hands still with palms facing; around like your hold a ball, or if it helps to give you an idea what I am speaking of get a medium sized ball, basketball if you have one and roll it around as I explained; from side to side to help you see the movement of the palms.Later in your practice you should then feel as if you truly are holding a ball in between your palms. This is a little more advanced but keep it in mind as experience the chi ball yourself.
        This is also something not explained in the video. After you are done, and though I am not familiar with the chi kung you Practice just send the chi of your palms back to your Abdomin when you are finished trying this exercise out. Try it out more, it is worth the practice.
        David



        Young Caine: How does man rid himself of such terrible things?
        Master Kahn: Each man must start with himself, within himself.. By slowly forging his Chi, the bond between the finite and the infinte, the inner essense of his strenght and the limitless power of the Universe, only thus can you conquer the power.. and the presence of evil.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Alex McLeod View Post

          So here's my question to you:
          Why bother with a test like this that does nothing other than give you an interesting sensation, when you could be doing something that would give you a lasting effect? I mean, sure, the interesting effects may take longer, but even when I was practicing on my own from Sifu's books, it took me 2-4 weeks to get an induced qi flow without aiming for one specifically. (to be fair, that scared the crap out of me because I wasn't expecting it and it just kinda happened after I finished Lifting the Sky and lied down to go to sleep)

          Also, a relevant quote from the Q&A:
          So, from what Sifu says a beginner would probably need to repeat "many times" to feel the effects described in the video and by Sifu. He also says "You can actually make them in 10 minutes." I'm assuming that since what the man in the video is describing is a qi ball, then the same would be true for them, hence it could probably take up to 10 minutes for someone to feel the effects.
          Nice post Alex. Thanks for your honesty and being genuine in what you're conveying. To answer your question...having been in the system, you are supposed to be concentrating on what you are doing, and you are supposed to be relaxed. But doing the test isn't necessarily supposed to be an exercise to increase chi, or even to make chi balls. The purpose is for you to having a simple "exercise" that you can do to see how much more chi you may have.

          For example (could be a bad example). You lift weights for 3 months doing a pretty consistent routine. After about three months, you want to see how much stronger you have gotten, so you "max out on the bench" and you are able to see that you are able to bench 50 pounds more than you previously could. That's what I think the test is for. For you to see how much stronger your chi has gotten over time.

          I do not think that Master Wong is wrong in the Q&A quote that you posted. I was actually rather surprised to how close what he said resembled the test. But the difference is that by doing the test you aren't really attempting to make a chi ball (even if that ends up being what you make) and you should be able to feel it almost right away (not 10 minutes). No disrespect intended for Master Wong, I think that if the goal was to make a chi ball then he is 100% correct, it could take about 10 minutes for someone who has been practicing for years.

          Also, do I think he's trying to draw people to his site? Sure! He's trying to convince people that chi is real, and tell them that they might be able to feel it by doing that excercise...hoping that once they feel it they possibly want to learn more.

          Anyways, thanks once again for your response. I really enjoyed the read and the new perspective. I hope I was able to answer the question that you had for me.

          DoubleA

          Comment


          • #20
            Darren,
            I kind of do not know how to respond to your post, other than saying that I know chi exist because I've experienced it. I have actually been shocked from my training thus far by some of the effects. But it's def real. Other than that, I do think that you study one of the coolest styles. I've always wanted to study Wing Chun.

            Happy Practicing,
            DoubleA
            Last edited by DoubleA; 6 December 2008, 04:18 PM. Reason: Wanted to add to my post

            Comment


            • #21
              Nice explanation Buddhasfist1, very well written.

              DoubleA

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by DoubleA View Post
                Nice explanation Buddhasfist1, very well written.

                DoubleA
                Thanks DoubleA, though I have just now seen a few typing errors, I did try to explain the exercise with to the best of my ability. I guess it turned out better than I had originally hope. Thanks again.
                David



                Young Caine: How does man rid himself of such terrible things?
                Master Kahn: Each man must start with himself, within himself.. By slowly forging his Chi, the bond between the finite and the infinte, the inner essense of his strenght and the limitless power of the Universe, only thus can you conquer the power.. and the presence of evil.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Buddhasfist1 View Post
                  I think you may have already answered your question, seeing as you were nervous in front of the BBC camera's which was not allowing yourself to relax and focus, and as it seems you were able to focus and get into the "Chi Kung state of mind" as we call it for five mintues.
                  My state of mind was anything but a chi Kung state of mind (I attend shaolin Wahnam classes) - it was the opposite. I was confused, nervous, wondering what I would say next. That's why I find it so difficult to understand. I can do standing meditation, lifting the sky, stances then try 'the test' and still NOTHING. It appeared to me on reflection later that because of my nervousness I was 'not thinking' - a state we strike for in chi kung. Of course part of my mind was in overdrive but in that moment maybe I was letting go of all the stuff that was really bothering me about my life (worries etc) - something I have not completely been able to do whilst doing my daily training. Food for thought
                  The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about. Oscar Wilde

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    youtube tests and demos

                    Thanks for your posts DoubleA, and also to the other contributors.

                    I have seen a few chi demos and tests on the internet and I always think the ones where someone tries to explain Chi are cringe-worthy. They never seem to do the experience justice and always seem to miss the point. This one was no different for me; although nothing 'wrong' was said, the instructor gave a wordy explanation and demonstration but actually delivered very little about the nature of Chi. The test was not explained in a way that was 'measurable' over time - the intent seemed to be purely to get the viewer to experience Chi; either their own, or the instructor's via the power of transmission. It all left me bit cold.

                    For me any explanation of Chi needs to begin with the statement "Chi is energy" and that's pretty much all I need. It's simple not complex - Chi is energy. All things are energy. We are Chi. I never quite understand the need for lengthy explanations. Following the method and the instruction of my teacher is adequate.

                    I have never been taught to 'measure' Chi from one point to the next during my Chi Kung or Kung Fu practice, but only to acknowledge it's presence when it is there or it's effects when it helps in combat application. Measurement leads to analysis and analysis is predominantly a scientific / philosophical approach which (from experience) I personally have not found useful to apply to my practice in Wahnam.

                    With respect
                    Rich
                    ++ smile ++ from ++ the ++ heart ++
                    Rich Denyer-Bewick
                    ...
                    you can connect with me on: Facebook (personal/social), Linkedin (professional) and Twitter (a bit of both!)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Thanks namaste, that's a fair response and critique. Actually it's a really good observation also. They tend to take more of the scientific approach rather than the martial approach...even in their methods of training.

                      Thanks again for taking the time to share...happy training,
                      DoubleA

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Why the preoccupation with power tests?

                        I fail to understand the need to test your chi power. Hasnt Master Wong taught you guys that the best test is good health? If you have not fallen sick since practising chi kung/tai chi/kungfu/ is there a need to have more documented proof?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Wow

                          Shaolindamo,

                          First of all that's one heck of a first post.

                          and, Secondly there is nothing wrong with wanting to check the progress of a student.

                          Having perfect health is not the only goal in high level kung fu practice(and I can't believe I have to say this).

                          Most real schools of Kung fu have internal force/power. It is almost necessary to check a students progress over time. Also why wouldn't you want to have a method of checking your own progress.

                          To be honest it sounds like you practice low level chi kung. In all the powerful schools I know of they all test chi flow and force and the ability there of.

                          I test my students internal force for a few reasons.

                          1.) To see if they are practicing diligently.
                          2.) Just to make sure that they are progressing.
                          3.) To make sure that they are practicing right.

                          I have to wonder about any instructor that does not do that with his students.

                          Also internal power like all things has levels of attainment to verify if a student has this attainment a test may be required.

                          It is always good to test your ability. I wonder do you have any attainment? any gong? any internal force at all? before you question other schools?

                          Just a thought.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Low Level?

                            I suppose you could be right. I did learn from Master Wong. I wonder what level is his chikung. He was the one who told me not to test chi kung power or prowess. Same too with my encounters with Master Chin Chee Ching. Same advice.

                            What I am trying to say, without intending to offend anyone, is not to be taken by the prowess or power. The ultimate goal is to achieve universal understanding of the dharmic effects of being good and harming none.

                            If low level qigong has led to my clouded thinking, then I fear what high level qigong might prompt me.

                            My apologies if anyone's feelings are hurt. I am only sharing what I have been taught by Sifu Wong.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Testing internal force, tests internal force. This may or may not be an indication of the developmental stage of a person's Chi Kung training.

                              As we all know, there are 5 basic levels (or categories) of aims and objectives in Chi Kung (anyone care to list them?). One's development is best measured against the aims and objectives that person has set for themselves. This is not the same (or is it? as martial arts development.

                              For example, a person wishing to overcome diabetes will not be interested in developing internal force for martial arts. Their internal force will be used for its primary purpose (keeping us alive) and secondary purpose (achieving good health).

                              A second person starting to practice at the same time, with acceptable health, possibly with the same exercise regimen, may set their aims and objectives, for example, in achieving mental clarity to be able to excell in their scholastic activities.


                              Testing, in my opinion, in martial arts training makes sense (at least to a certain extent). In Chi Kung training, the test is there every day without the need for an external evaluation.
                              Sifu Andrew Barnett
                              Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                              Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                              Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
                              Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                ok

                                shaolindamo,


                                Ok I thought you were insulting Wahnam. It was a misunderstanding on my part. Andrew I agree different people have different objectives for training.

                                Andrew

                                I agree different people have different reasons for training.
                                Last edited by Wu Jing; 16 April 2009, 04:25 PM. Reason: edit

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X