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  • Sutra Recitation

    Good day to all,

    Buddhist teachings have helped bring an understanding to my life that was previously missing. I had a very uplifting experience at a low point in my life when I stumbled across some texts on the fundamental teachings of Buddhism, such as the Four Noble Truths. This was about the same time that I first started practising Wahnam Chi Kung and since then both my Chi Kung practise and understanding of Buddhism both intellectually and experientially have developed in tandem.

    I think that at the beginning some aspects of Buddhist practise I would easily have dismissed as religious dogma and not necessarily appropriate to my own spiritual development. However my own personal experience has been that although a small leap of faith is sometimes required to adopt a belief system that challenges a conventional one, chi kung and meditation practise transforms the educational experience from being an intellectual, what if, how, why, process to something far more tangible.

    I regularly recite sutras, dharanis and mantras because I can easily identify many benefits in my own life, such as improved results in my chi kung practise possibly due to better concentration and focus. I also feel it is likely that there are many other benefits working on other levels that I am not necessarily aware of because of my limited understanding and viewpoint.

    One issue has been on my mind for a while and I wanted to give it time first before I asked the question.

    In August earlier this year I visited the BBC website and was hit with this headline:

    "Monk dies in freak mower accident"

    This was a story about Reverend Gyosei Handa at the Nippon zan Miohoji Buddhist temple. You can find a little article about this event at the BBC website address below:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/6958580.stm


    This brought to my mind something that Sigung wrote in his book "Sukhavati, Western Paradise - Going to Heaven as Taught by the Buddha," on page 147:

    According to Buddhist teaching, those who recite the sutras conscientiously are always protected by gods, and are therefore generally free from calamities. It is not easy to prove this claim scientifically, and some people may regard this belief as superstition, but if we look around objectively or care to take the trouble to investigate how many people involved in accidents are spiritual, it is not difficult to see its validity. Personally, I have not met someone who chants sutras conscientiously becomes and inmate of an asylum or dies in an accident.
    In my humble opinion I think that there is some form of protection. My own understanding is somewhere between a belief in protection from a god which belongs to the phenomenal realm and protection to myself because sutra recitation would help me attain a one-pointed mind which then allows me to see phenomena for what it is and therefore not be completely subject to the waxing and waning of karmic laws belonging to the phenomenal realm.

    Referring back to the accident involving Reverend Gyosei Handa and other atrocities and human rights violations around the world involving what I would assume were earnestly devout Buddhist monks for instance in Burma (Myanmar) and Tibet. Is it right then to assume that Sigung's statement quoted above shouldn't be taken literally, or could it simply be the case that
    if I view life and death as points in a cycle controlled by karmic laws that I am simply misinterpreting the accident or the "suffering" of the monks in the oppressed regimes as a negative event, when in fact they could equally be considered as something different from another viewpoint.

    Apologies for the lengthy post, I would certainly appreciate any advice or understanding anyone can bring to me on this.

    With gratitude,

    Joel
    Last edited by Joel; 4 January 2008, 06:52 PM.
    Once you know the map all routes become clear.

    — Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

  • #2
    I, too, have wondered this question. Why, for example, were the Shaolin Temples in China all destroyed? The Shaolin monks, after all, were devout Buddhists who recited mantras and sutras continuously all day.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DarkCosmoz View Post
      I, too, have wondered this question. Why, for example, were the Shaolin Temples in China all destroyed? The Shaolin monks, after all, were devout Buddhists who recited mantras and sutras continuously all day.
      While I was still pondering the question in post no. 1, when reading this question in post no. 2 an immediate answer came to my mind:

      This was the Nature's way to enable the genuine Shaolin Arts to be spread outside China, to the other parts of the World.

      -Joko
      开心 好运气
      kai xin... .......hao yunqi... - Sifu's speech, April 2005
      open heart... good chi flow... good luck ...
      ------------------------------------------------------------
      Have we not opened up thy heart ...? (The Reading, 94:1)
      ------------------------------------------------------------
      Be joyful, ..and share your joy with others -(Anand Krishna)

      Comment


      • #4
        Some of my thoughts about it, hope it's not too long

        Reciting mantras trains our mind. It trains the concentration so that we might be able to attain an "all-time-focussed"-mind one day, revealing an realization of the truth between the silence we made up in our mind by having brought out all the "garbage" before.
        On the other hand our mind makes up our reality. Every person in front of you is an reflection of yourself. If you are thinking bad about someone, this person wont be truly friendly to you. But if we have a clear mind and an open heart most people will react positive on ourself, noticing unconsciously that you try to bring peace to all beeings.
        I just remember some saying... "Bring good to others and other will bring good to you."
        So maybe at first, us changing ourselves by reciting mantras, makes some people around us to our kind of "small personal gods" (is that too abstract thinking ?) protecting us and caring for us. Second, focussing our mind holds away the "demons" in our thoughts which make us do bad things out of egoistic thoughts sometime. And third, what you've already mentioned, we can finally see phenomenas around us as what they are really and are not totally controlled by them.
        But beside this all there's still the law of karma, which in the case of the reverend just seemed to have a bit unusual plan for him. For sure, that's a negative happening, but it's the suffering of change.

        Oh man... I'm really thinking a lot about your question, but until now I only find some small answers, but not the ultimate answer about it

        I dont think only by chanting sutras we'll become invulnerable, cause we are still humans and there are many examples of buddhists and even lamas which died in a tragic way. But it protects us from self-inflicted bad happenings, which I think make up most of the things in our daily life we would claim as "bad".
        Accidents often happen out of beeing unconcentrated (especially car accidents) and diseases often are caused out of our thoughts, especially after doing chi kung we all recognized some very positive effects.
        Another saying I just thought of... Talk of the devil, and he is bound to appear.

        And if we add, to the concentration we get out of reciting, a little portion of just believing that there are many things we cant understand right now, the "protection" and the benefits are just way more than before.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello all,

          This was the Nature's way to enable the genuine Shaolin Arts to be spread outside China, to the other parts of the World.
          I would definitely agree with you on this Joko siheng. I think that often events we’d at first consider to be negative turn out positive in the long run and vice-versa, which makes me think that describing a negative/positive event is probably a limited dualistic way of describing a process for which I don’t have total awareness

          Matthias I like the points you raise.

          So maybe at first, us changing ourselves by reciting mantras, makes some people around us to our kind of "small personal gods" (is that too abstract thinking ?) protecting us and caring for us.
          I certainly don’t have a problem with accepting the existence of actual gods or other helpful beings in addition to attracting more beneficial people into my life through mantra/sutra recitation. Although the realms of heavens, hells etc may seem a bit fantastic for some, I tend to go along with an open mind and feel that since almost everything I experience as real is an interpretation of the “real” event by my own senses, cognition or more simply described as belonging to the phenomenal realm, then essentially anything is possible.

          Accidents often happen out of beeing unconcentrated (especially car accidents) and diseases often are caused out of our thoughts, especially after doing chi kung we all recognized some very positive effects.
          I wasn’t familiar with the concept of “accidental death” until recently. My understanding is that as a result of your previous actions thoughts and so on, your current karma determines what your outcome will be. So essentially your date/manner of death is known at any given point, but it’s like a goal post that keeps moving backwards or forwards depending on my current thoughts/actions. However as you say by being “unconcentrated” or not having full awareness of the consequences of your thoughts/actions, can lead to actions/thoughts being manifested that lead to “detrimental” results.

          So using the Reverend as an example perhaps he had the potential to live longer or to die in a less severe manner but to realise this potential he would have had to do something different before his death. Perhaps conscientiously reciting sutras/mantras tips the balance in the favour of realising that potential. But of course for each individual the benefit from reciting will depend on several factors related to that individuals current state of development/understanding and therefore if the karmic outcome of the Reverend was massively weighted towards an accidental death at that particular date, although he may have been conscientiously reciting sutras/mantras to the best of his ability, in this instance it wasn’t sufficient to prevent the “ripening of his karma” in this instance.

          But it protects us from self-inflicted bad happenings, which I think make up most of the things in our daily life we would claim as "bad".
          I’m not sure about the concept of “self-inflicted” happenings as opposed to “other-inflicted” happenings purely because I think that the “I” as I understand it is ultimately responsible through my own actions and thought for every outcome in my life.

          Thanks for the post you raised some really interesting points.

          Regards,

          Joel
          Once you know the map all routes become clear.

          — Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

          Comment


          • #6
            Points brought to mind

            Some fascinating points have been raised on this thread that I have also pondered in the past. A couple of ideas come to my mind:

            As far as protection offered by Mantra's etc it is often commented that it depends on the mantra "coming from the heart and the sincerity of the request". In other words to tap into the healing/protective/spiritual power of these methods we have to reach a deeper and deeper quality of practice.

            At the other end of the scale we see that death has a very different significance for highly developed spiritual beings. One obvious example would be that of Jesus Christ, some would wonder how a being so spiritual could fall to such misfortune as to be crucified. Various interpretations are given but one is that such a being dies to burn of the last traces of their bad Karma, their disciples bad Karma or humans as a whole. There are many such examples found in the Yogic, Buddhist and other systems. Highly developed spiritual beings suffer these tragedies knowingly because they have a different significance than to us mere mortals.

            The example of the Southern Shaolin Temple could be the same as many other examples of highly spiritual beings dying in tragic ways to dissolve negative Karma.

            For me the key thing to remember with Mantra/Sutra etc recital is that we are training our mind as well as building a connection to divine beings, and this training of the mind is the only way to really understand the difficult questions of the universe.

            All the best

            Comment


            • #7
              I believe the truly enlightened Shaolin monks didn't worry about the destruction of the temple. A temple is merely a building – what's inside is what makes it special and what's inside is the treasures the monks kept in their hearts, and whoever survived brought to other people – like all of us.
              I don't think a person can control every aspect of his life, some cards are thrown at us without warning, but if we prepare our mind and spirit we can cope better with whatever happens to us.
              Enjoy your journeys,
              Racheli Wittert-Ashur


              "There is a crack, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen

              Comment


              • #8
                "Protection from threats"

                Very interesting to see everyone's perspectives on this. Thank you.

                I was just wondering if anyone here who regularly recites mantras or sutras would say they feel protected from any particular threats as a result, if they've had any experiences that led to that conclusion and if they'd be willing to share them?

                Best regards,

                Joel
                Once you know the map all routes become clear.

                — Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Joel View Post
                  Very interesting to see everyone's perspectives on this. Thank you.

                  I was just wondering if anyone here who regularly recites mantras or sutras would say they feel protected from any particular threats as a result, if they've had any experiences that led to that conclusion and if they'd be willing to share them?

                  Best regards,

                  Joel
                  I think yes. I don't know for sure that I've been spared from calamities, but at least twice when facing a physical and mental challenge I've asked and received an energy boost on each occasion that I could see the one time and feel on the other. Here are some suggestions:

                  1) Don't use it for anything unneccesary.

                  2) Don't take any protection that you're receiving or think you're receiving for granted. For example, driving fast on the highway and not wearing your seatbelt because you know you have divine protection.

                  Mark
                  Facebook

                  "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

                  -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Joel,

                    I only started reciting mantras during this past summer, but I felt their effects quite quickly. I can't say I've gone through any harsh physical events recently that I was saved from, but maybe that's because I pray

                    When I started recitation I went through some very powerful experiences, which felt like strong chi cleansings. The second time I recited the Great Compassion Heart Dharani, it felt quite magical. My whole body was buzzing, my head especially. It felt like chi was just going crazy inside of me, and it felt quite amazing.

                    In terms of feeling protected, there are times where I feel like something/someone is smiling over me, watching out for me.

                    Best,
                    Drew
                    Love, and do what you will.

                    - St. Augustine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey guys,

                      I have been chanting mantras 108 times a day for approximately 20 days now. If you see my other post Shakti Mantras, I used that book by Thomas-Ashley Farrand to chant the mantras.

                      I focused specifically on the Lakshmi abundance mantra as well as a few others that relate to love. Let me say, the past few weeks have felt like a dream... it is just so unreal as to how well my life is changing. Like qigong, you have to practice mantras everyday to accumulate the energy generated by the mantra. Only then will you begin to see the changes in your life.

                      Mantras definitely work as it has been used for thousands of years. Sometimes mantras or sutras won't work its effect due to heavy karma blockages an individual may still have. Dedication and patience in chanting the mantras are the only ways to work through the karma.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey Stephen,

                        Since you've been working with them for a little while now, are there any mantras you would recommend for health? Gracias!

                        Drew
                        Love, and do what you will.

                        - St. Augustine

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey Drew,

                          Here are some health mantras that Thomas Ashley Farrand list in his various books and sites:

                          OM GUM GANAPATAYEI NAMAHA
                          (om gum gun-nuh-puh-tuh-yei nam-ah-ha)
                          "Om and Salutations to the remover of obstacles for which Gum is the seed mantra"
                          -This is the mantra of the Hindu deity Ganesha that basically clears away negative energy blockages and/or obstacles in your life.

                          OM RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA
                          "Ram... is the seed sound for the manipura, or solar plexus chakra. Tremendous healing energy lies dormant at that chakra. Mantra can help you get at that energy. This mantra begins to awaken and activate the entire chakra. It specifically prepares the chakra to be able to handle the inflow of kundalini energy that gives the chakra its power."

                          "Ra is associated with the solar current that runs down the right side of our bodies. Ma is associated with the lunar current that runs down the left side of our bodies.... By repeating Rama... Rama... Rama over and over again, you begin to balance the two currents and their activity so that they can work with the higher stages of energy that will eventually come up the spine.... Om Ram Ramaya Namaha begins to clear the two currents with a slight emphasis on the right or solar side, which is needed in this age of darkness... After the age of twenty-nine, the ending of the mantra should be changed to Swaha."


                          Om Apadamapa Hataram Dataram Sarva Sampadam
                          Loka Bhi Ramam Sri Rama Bhuyo Bhuyo Namamyaham


                          This is the great healing mantra that is regarded by Thomas Ashley-Farrand as one of the best healing mantras there is for physical, mental and spritual problems.


                          For more basic mantras, you can go to his site here: http://www.sanskritmantra.com/simple.htm


                          In fact, for those interested, here is an excerpt from his book "Healing Mantras": http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/d...7&view=excerpt

                          He tells a personal story about the Om Gum Ganapatayei mantra.



                          Best regards,
                          Stephen
                          Last edited by DarkCosmoz; 22 January 2008, 01:18 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Awesome, thanks man.

                            Has anyone tried using a mantra while playing a musical instrument? Such as just playing a very simply, pleasant groove will chanting the mantra. Would it be alright for me to try it, or is it better to stick to simply sitting and reciting?

                            Drew
                            Love, and do what you will.

                            - St. Augustine

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seenordrew View Post
                              Awesome, thanks man.

                              Has anyone tried using a mantra while playing a musical instrument? Such as just playing a very simply, pleasant groove will chanting the mantra. Would it be alright for me to try it, or is it better to stick to simply sitting and reciting?

                              Drew
                              Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

                              Some people use music quite regularly in their chanting, others do not
                              Last edited by shaolin_mike; 22 January 2008, 11:54 AM.
                              from the ♥

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