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To Shaolin Wahnam Instructors: Is this External or Internal Force?

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  • To Shaolin Wahnam Instructors: Is this External or Internal Force?

    Hi,

    With all of this external Vs internal discussion, I have a question about Mas Oyama.

    Is this Karate Master managed to do this incredible feats (Killing bulls, killing people with just one punch) because he supplied internal force into his strikes or he did it by using external strength only?

    Thanks in advance for the answer.
    "Franciskus, Open Your Chest" Sifu Wong (Intensive Kungfu Course 11/23 -11/29/04)

  • #2
    Hey Quattro. This is an interesting question. Unfortunately, it may make the debate between internal/external more confusing.

    From all accounts, Mas Oyama was very powerful. My Karate grandmaster knew him. I never heard about Mas Oyama actually killing a person with a punch, but I have heard the stories about the bull. Needless to say, his power was impressive.

    External force, when trained diligently, can be incredibly powerful. Karate masters like Mas Oyama punched a Makiwara hundreds of times a day. If we were to classify this method according to Kungfu terminology, it would be termed "external." The methods are external. The force used relies on muscular strength. This force will diminish with age, as opposed to internal force, which can increase.

    However, we must remember that this classification is just for convenience. In reality, the line between external and internal is flexible. Internal and external often blend together. The Tiger Claw is a good example. This art uses both internal and external methods. The combination can be incredibly powerful. However, even an "external" Tiger Claw can be powerful.

    I have direct experience of this. One of my teachers was a master of Fu Jow Pai Kungfu. After meeting and training with Sifu Wong, I would not classify him as an internal master. However, his Tiger Claw was incredibly powerful and he was one of the most formidable fighters I have ever encountered. Technically, the methods he used to train his Tiger Claw were external, like gripping and twisting a length of wood. However, if we look closer we see that this method is done in horse stance, so the line becomes less distinct.

    Looking back, I cannot say definitively whether his Tiger Claw was purely external. After all, he trained diligently for years in horse stance. Even without knowledge of internal principles, it is possible for this method to develop internal force.

    Mas Oyama learned from Kenji Sawai, the founder of Taiki Ken, which I believe is similar to Yi Quan. It is generally classified as an internal style. I think it is reasonable to conclude that Mas Oyama learned some internal principles from this art. (See: http://www.kyokushinmail.com./koya/Kyokushin.htm). Even if he did not, it is still possible that his punch naturally took on internal aspects after years of training. Though we would all like it to be black and white, internal force isn't always that clear cut.

    I hope that helps.
    Sifu Anthony Korahais
    www.FlowingZen.com
    (Click here to learn more about me.)

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    • #3
      Hi Antonius,

      Wow, I didn't know that your karate grandmaster know Mas Oyama!!! That must be a very enlightening experience.

      Ok, back to the topic:

      Do you by any chance know how tall and heavy Mas Oyama is?

      I have been browsing numerous kyokushin sites but no information is available about this particular one.

      If he is a big person, then he probably just using his muscle strength to do the feats. Although like you said, he might get some internal aspect in his Taikiken training or his training just automatically lead to an internal aspect later on.
      "Franciskus, Open Your Chest" Sifu Wong (Intensive Kungfu Course 11/23 -11/29/04)

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      • #4
        My grandmaster (who was 5'4") joked that Mas Oyama was as wide as he was tall. He seems pretty stocky in the videos, but I don't know his height or weight.
        Sifu Anthony Korahais
        www.FlowingZen.com
        (Click here to learn more about me.)

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