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  • Southern Shaolin History

    I was having a bit of a browse on the web this morning for a bit of info on the Southern Shaolin Temple's history and came across a really interesting site, and a few really interesting articles which I thought I'd share.

    They say they discuss the history of Wing Chun KungFu and are written by:
    Sifu Benny Meng, principle founder and Curator of the Ving Tsun Museum, Ohio and Sifu Richard Loewenhagen, one of the founding committee members of the Ving Tsun Museum and current Director of West Coast Affairs. Both are full time teachers of Wing Chun Kung Fu


    I'd love to hear what people's thoughts are about these articles. From what I understand so far (only a beginner ) things like 'the three treasures' are inline with what Sigung teaches, which I found very encouraging


    The Background of Monk Soldiers:


    The Three Treasures of Shaolin


    The Holyland of Martial Arts, Southern Shaolin Temple
    "It's no secret that a friend is someone who lets you help". from the song The Fly by U2

  • #2
    Something of interest

    You might find this article interesting:



    It was written by my old tai chi chuan teacher, Dan Docherty.

    Enjoy.

    Regards,

    Mike

    Comment


    • #3
      That reminds me...

      In 1999, our Wing Chun school had the opportunity to attend the First Anual International Wing Chun Friendship Gathering in Victoria B.C. Canada. We had the pleasure and honor to train under and watch many high level Wing Chun masters including Sifu Benny Meng and Sifu Ray VanRamsdonk, the organiser of the event and our Sigung in Wing Chun. The event was a marveleous success with many different lineages joining together, some for the first time to share and train. We reviewed and were instructed the entire system in one weekend which included(but was not limited to):

      Sil Lum Tao - basic form
      Chum Ku - intermediate form
      Biu Zie - advanced form

      Chi Sao - sensitivity training(with application)

      Wooden Dummie(training with Mook Jun)
      'Live Dummie' (training with partner)

      Butterfly Knives
      Long Pole
      Spear

      Knives vs Knives
      Knives vs Sword
      Knives vs Spear

      Free Sparring (open hand and weapons)


      Being instructed by the various masters and schools, there would appear that there are as many different methods used to train Wing Chun(and spell it) as there are schools. They can be generalised into two categories of training methodologies. Hard and soft.

      If I remember correctly Sifu Benny Meng was not on the guest list of Masters but attended as a spectator, but over the course of the weekend he humbly became the center of our attention large in part because of his skill and knowledge in Wing Chun.

      The spirit at the event was amazing. During chi sau training there was laughter and good friendly challenges as different schools applied their methods to others. The quality of martial skill that was being displayed was inspiring. it was looking like the hard method of training had the advantage in the sparring. Until Sifu Meng was offered a friendly challange. He took the largest hard style opponent who was dominating the training and turned him inside out. When the hard style opponent was finally frustrated with his attempts to dominate Sifu Meng, he pulled out his technique he called the "train wreck" a series of chain punches in an all out advance. With the hard style practitioners size and skill no one to that point was able to stop it and many of his students had a version of their own, so we all got to work against it. Sifu Meng performed a chi sau work of art for us. He gracefully tied up the hard opponent placed him on his heels, stopped the train wreck in its tracks and walked him backwards for about 20 feet. Then with a smile saluted the hard opponent and taught us all in attendance the attack and defence patterns and techniques of the continuous chain punches. The hard style practitioner donated many personal historical Wing Chun treasures to Sifu Meng and the Ving Tsun Museum at the end of the event.

      Another highlight of the event was watching a senior student(in age and training) blindfolded, easily defending himself against three of the largest wing chun practitioners from different schools in spontanious chi sau. Three young men being humbled by a blindfolded elderly master. They started off like he was a fragile old guy and by the end they were like line backers trying to tackle him but to no avail. Chi Sau training with all the masters and students in attendance and watching Sifu VanRamsdonk free spar with butterfly knives vs the long spear was also of course memorable.

      When I had the privilage to train with Sifu the following year for the first time in an intensive Shaolin course in Malaysia, I mentioned that I had trained in Wing Chun as well as other styles. Sifu asked me to perform what I knew for him and he offered me his advice on corrections to perfect my technique. Sifu suggested I train using the goat stance in place of the 'mother stance' and he used a tree to assist me in my center line training. He also taught me to open the form with 'Big Boss Offers Wine'. As well as several other subtle changes. Subtle yet profound changes with subtle yet profound results.

      The question came up over the weekend gathering, what about Chi Kung?
      What supplimentary Chi Kung exersises do Wing Chun practitioners use?
      Sifu Meng's words were similar to our Sifu's words I would here soon after. It is not what you practice but how you practice. Sifu Meng Showed us his version of the opening form in Wing Chun - Sil Lum Tao

      The way he performed it, it was Chi Kung. Many masters had performed the form beautifully and effectively but Sifu Meng was one of the few who applied the form for us with body, breath and mind. Imagine the whole seminar of Wing Chun teachers and students from around the globe in silent awe being taught the most basic form of the style.

      We were taught during the gathering that Wing Chun was the 'Coles Notes' of Shaolin Kungfu. That during a period of Chinese history a method was required to train peasents and farmers Shaolin Kungfu in a short period of time of two or three days and with further dedicated practice be effective againsts professional soldiers. Wing Chun was the method of streamlined Shaolin Kungfu. Not being a Wing Chun or Kung fu historian I hesitate to write this but we were told that Wing Chun meant 'coming spring' or in a more poetic way 'spring always follows winter' and winter represented the Ching Dinasty which I believe were manchurian rulers of China for a period. Wing Chun was a revolutionary art. Spring always follows winter takes a new revolutionary meaning in this context. Much like in a lion dance when the lion kicks the Ching Choi he was secretly kicking the Ching Dinasty. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of Manderine or Chinese History could follow up on this for me.

      This leads me to wonder also how the opening form is named Sil Lum Tao and we are told its meaning is the 'little idea' when to my laymans view Sil Lum Tao would mean 'Shaolin Way'

      Thank you, I will take the time to look over the articles you suggested Claire.

      My personal memories of Sifu Meng were that he was soft spoken, yet confident, kind and generous with others around him and with teaching his skills. At the end of the seminar he proclaimed that we had all witnessed a watershed event that had never before been attempted and was accomplished with great success. There were no injuries and no animosities. Four lineages had shared their skills with respect. Truly a Wing Chun Friendship Gathering. He closed his speech saying all in attendance that day were honorary members of the Ving Tsun museum and proceded to take names and numbers of all those who were interested. In the end our Sigung Ray VanRamsdonk refunded Sifu Meng's attendance fee and we were all in agreeance that Sifu Meng's skill was unmatched at the event.

      Thank you for letting me share these memories.
      (please excuse any errors or typos )

      Comment


      • #4
        Dear Siheng,

        Thank you for taking the time to share such an inspiring story. In particular, it is truly heart-warming to hear that the sparring was carried out with such good spirit and comraderie.

        Still,
        Sidai,
        Charles David Chalmers
        Brunei Darussalam

        Comment


        • #5
          A beautiful account

          Thank you

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you, Siheng.

            Mark
            少林華南台灣 Shaolin Wahnam Taiwan

            Facebook

            "Then how could chi kung overcome diseases where the cause is unknown or when there is no cure? The question is actually incorrect. The expressions "the cause is unknown" and "there is no cure" are applicable only in the Western medical paradigm. The expressions no longer hold true in the chi kung paradigm. In the chi kung paradigm the cause is known, and there is a cure."

            -Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

            Comment


            • #7
              Dear cosmicdragon,
              That was truly a wonderful and inspiring story. Thank you for your generousity.

              Best,

              Ray
              "Om"

              I pay homage to all the great masters of the past and the present

              Comment


              • #8
                Wonders never cease

                I am always humbled when reading the responses from our Shoalin family and extended friends. Thank you. It is my pleasure to be able to contribute.

                I felt a need to reply after reading Sifu's current Q&A series



                While reviewing the links Claire had suggested I came across the following link:



                I was the photographer for Sifu Meng in the shot with the lead instructors at the top of the page.

                And at the bottom in the group photo you can see me in the yellow shirt. Cool! Thanks Claire!

                Of special interest(ignoring the fact that it was actually '98 ) is the comparison photos that Sifu Meng uses that you may find interesting. Compare them to the photo Sifu provided.

                There are two photos. One of Sifu Marty Goldburg of the William Cheung Lineage and another of Sifu Rene Ritchie of Yuen Kay San System. These two masters make an excellent example of the contrasting Wing Choon Systems.

                In Sifu's priceless photo he provided, we see him in the Wu Sau position. The photos of Sifu Goldburg and Sifu Ritchie are in transitional motion of Tan Sau, Wu Sau, Fook Sau.

                But we can still clearly see in a compairison of the three photos that Sifu Marty Goldburg is in a goat stance, much like in Sifu's photo, where in contrast Sifu Ritchie is in the much more commonly seen and generally accepted 'mother stance' or Kim Nur Mar(sic?)

                One can also see Sifu Goldburgs 'open' appearance, for example looking outward, with an open chest. Where in contrast one can see Sifu Ritchie's 'closed' appearance, for example looking inwardly, with a relaxed feel. Both are excellent young masters with exceptional dedication to the art of Wing Chun.

                Sifu Goldburg's style was in the minority at the gathering, representing William Cheung Lineage. I do recall Sifu Goldburg creating quite a stir with his use of more traditional stances like the bow and cat in contrast to what is more commonly seen in Wing Chun. As a matter of fact Sifu Meng mentions this on the page also as, 'William Cheung Lineages emphasis on footwork' Many people in attendance had a hard time accepting that Wing Choon could contrast so vastly in outward appearance, so I remember Sifu Goldburg was presented a difficult challenge. Sifu Rene Ritchie then showed us footage of his travels to Yuen Kay San where he captured 5 different versions of Sil Lim Tao from 5 different masters, monks and practitioners all from the same area and none looked the same as either of what Sifu Goldburg or Sifu Ritchie practiced, although of course you could see many similarities.

                I did find an interesting link that has a more diffinative representation of the Wing Chun history here:



                For more interesting Southern Shaolin history you may wish to review this thread on Women in Kung fu:



                Chuka I believe is the Choe Family style or Choe Ka, that Sifu has mentioned as his Wing Choon lineage. His teacher being Sigung Choe Hoong Choy. Although I am not certain of this. Perhaps someone could confirm this(or otherwise)?

                Take Care,

                Neil
                Last edited by cosmicdragon108; 22 October 2006, 08:32 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wow.

                  Thank you for your account of the Wing Chun Friendship Gathering. As others have written, a truly inspiring event and wonderful account Thank you.

                  I've had a quick look over the photos and just found myself grinning - it's amazing how even digital images can just 'emanate' isn't it?

                  I'm really looking forward to taking the time to follow the links you've provided and having a good read

                  Thanks again for sharing all of this with us Neil, I'm very grateful,

                  Claire
                  "It's no secret that a friend is someone who lets you help". from the song The Fly by U2

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for those wonderful posts, Neil Siheng

                    My exposure to Wing Chun so far has been limited, to say the least, and rather negative, but you've really brought it alive for me here!


                    Sifu does mention Chuka in his Q&A series, along with some fascinating background on his lineage:

                    (From July 1999 pt 3)

                    Question 12
                    Does your style of Wing Chun have anything to do with a book called "Phoenix Eye Fist: a Shaolin Fighting Art of South China" by Cheong Cheng Leong and Don F Draeger? Is this style Wing Chun or Southern Praying Mantis, also known as Chuka Shaolin.
                    Robert, USA

                    Answer 12
                    Sifu Cheong Cheng Leong is my personal friend. I met the well known martial art master and writer, the late Master Don Draeger in my younger days. We almost had a sparring, both unarmed and armed, but somehow it did not take place.

                    Their book "Phoenix Eye Fist", written by Master Don Draeger on Sifu Cheong's kungfu, has nothing to do with Wing Chun or Praying Mantis. It is about Chu Ka Kungfu, or Kungfu of the Chu Family, which is famous for its phoenix-eye fist.

                    Sifu Cheong is the distinguished successor of the Patriarch of Chu Ka Kungfu, the late Sifu Li Hung Piau. Sifu Li could easily make a hole in a tin can with a single strike of his phoenix-eye fist. Sifu Cheong, a wealthy businessman who teaches kungfu for the love of it, and whom I still meet once a while to catch up with old times, is about 60 but healthy and fit like a youngman of 30.

                    Question 13
                    In your questtion-answer section you said that Yip Kin of Malaysian Wing Chun was the son of Yip Man the famous Hong Kong sifu and teacher of Bruce Lee. Could you tell the people why you stated the comment that Yip Kin's forms were different fromYip Man's?

                    Answer 13
                    I do not have to tell the people why Sifu Yip Kin's forms are different from those of Sifu Yip Man, because I did not make that comment. Sifu Yip Kin is a son and successor of the Wing Chun Patriarch, Sifu Yip Man. Their kungfu forms are naturally the same.

                    I also did not suggest that Sifu Yip Kin's kungfu was Malaysian Wing Chun. I mentioned that some Wing Chun practitioners in Kuala Lumpur, the capital of Malaysia, invited Sifu Yip Kin to teach for a period of time. Later these practitioners formed the Malaysian Wing Chun Association, led by masters like the late Sifu Wong Yam Sun and Sifu Yip Fook Choy, both of whom I personally know.

                    But my Wing Chun forms are different from Sifu Yip Kin's as well as from those of the Malaysian Wing Chun Association because I learned from a different lineage. My master was the late Sifu Choe Hoong Choy, the Patriarch of Choe Family Wing Chun. Choe Family Wing Chun was initially exclusive, taught only inside the Choe Family. Sifu Choe Hoong Choe was the first master to bring it out of the family.

                    Thanks again, and thanks also to Claire for the original links

                    Fleur

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Fleur

                      Thanks for finding that Fleur. What a great resource we have at our fingertips.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        About the search of the location of the Southern Shaolin Temple and a bit background story.

                        Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

                        Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

                        Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

                        Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.


                        In part two there is said that Zhang Benli (96 years old) learned from his master Fu Shenghua and he from Lin Ru who was a dignitary of Southern Shaolin Temple. True?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Great stuff, thanks for sharing Franz!

                          I love embedding:







                          Engage and maintain joyful practice!

                          May all of you get the best benefits from what you do.

                          Anton Schmick
                          Shaolin Wahnam Germany Nord

                          shaolinwahnamchina.com
                          http://chikunghamburg.wordpress.com
                          http://shaolinwahnam-nord.de
                          http://kungfu-luebeck.de

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            A great thing, thanks!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That looks interesting, thanks!

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