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The Ten Shaolin Laws

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  • #46
    Hi,

    I agree with the direction this thread is taking, though I would like to add my thoughts regarding a couple of the interpretations

    1. Respect your teacher, honor the tradition, and love fellow students as you would your brothers and sisters.
    2. Train the Shaolin arts diligently, and strive towards physical, mental, and emotional health.
    3. Be filial towards your parents, respectful towards the elderly, and protective of the young.
    4. Uphold righteousness, and strive to be both wise and courageous.
    5. Do not be ungrateful or unscrupulous; do not ignore the natural laws of the Universe, nor the laws of man.
    6. Do not rape, molest, steal, rob, abduct, cheat, or lie.
    7. Avoid associating with evil people; similarly, avoid evil in yourself.
    8. Do not abuse power, be it official or physical.
    9. Be humane and compassionate; strive to spread peace and happiness.
    10. Be chivalrous and generous, and pass on the Shaolin arts to deserving students.

    I feel that the word 'master' rather than 'teacher' is quite an important part of the first law as it implies a subtley different relationship. For example: By calling someone 'master' you acknowledge that they are in fact a number of levels above you in their development, an acknowledgement which enables us to develop at the greatest possible rate ouselves. I also feel that we are more inclined to 'learn' what teachers teach us, and 'practice' what the master teaches us. Though of course this is merely my personal intellectualisation of the wording..

    I'm with Tapio on seeing 'love' included in number 9 however

    Regarding uki's comments; I agree that he is refering to attachment, however they are lacking context and relevence to the thread, which I believe was the reason for Andrew Sipak's request for clarification.


    Nick.

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    • #47
      Dear Pooh Bear,

      I thank you for your clarification. This idea is not new to me, I just failed to see how on earth it would apply here. Well, I still fail to see it, but I think I now understand a little better what uki was after. I simply disagree with him.

      Originally posted by Pooh Bear View Post
      I know that these laws did contain more than one sentiment each. But some sentiments mean the same in execution. The 6th law is the best example. If you list the bad things AND say don't do evil this means the same, doesn't it? And not hurting also includes rape, murder, molestation and the likes.
      I see what you mean and I agree. However, I think a simple "Don't do evil" would be too ambiguous. The listing of a few "examples" provides us with a proper reference frame.

      P.S.
      I would have never guessed the day would come when I start a letter (of sorts) with the words 'Dear Pooh Bear'...

      Comment


      • #48
        -

        I do not think the word Love should be a part of law 9.

        Love is about being compassionate and humane and trying to spread peace and happiness.

        Love in itself is nothing without an action or nonaction.

        /Niklas
        Last edited by 8nsteen8; 8 September 2006, 03:20 PM.

        "If a man is called to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven played music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great streetsweeper who did his job well."/Martin Luther King, Jr.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Tapio Raevaara View Post
          I see what you mean and I agree. However, I think a simple "Don't do evil" would be too ambiguous. The listing of a few "examples" provides us with a proper reference frame.
          I didn't want to put it as "don't do evil!". It was about not hurting anyone or anything.

          But anyway, I know I don't have to defend my reformulations, because all I wanted was a discussion about possible reformulations. I like the other versions as well, but I think for laws shorter is better.


          Originally posted by Tapio Raevaara View Post
          P.S.
          I would have never guessed the day would come when I start a letter (of sorts) with the words 'Dear Pooh Bear'...
          Don't call me Winnie! But if you want to talk about breakfast and honey you're welcome...

          Just have a look at my profile (members list) if you like. Somewhere in there my name is hidden... I don't know how to change my status from "registered user" to my name.

          Off to taiji training camp for a week! Bye!
          Just a bear of little brains.

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          • #50
            I for one would like to be a bit controversial and say the laws are fine as they are I cant see the value in playing with the words to put stuff we like in or take stuff we don't like out. It is true they do not sound modern but they aren't really meant to they were written many centuries ago. Niether do they sound antiquated like 'Do not covet thy neighbours oxen' so I dont see the problem with sounding a bit old school.

            If you do decide to rephrase them by all means check the original chinese first as a few people have mentioned, that way you will go closer to the original meaning not further away.

            My 2 Euro cents
            from the ♥

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            • #51
              Speaking of the original chinese, where does it come from? A book, an inscription, or an oral transmition?

              Does anybody know when they were written? (Or first spoken?) And by whom?

              Comment


              • #52
                The words of any "laws" are meaningless unless the laws are put into practice / adhered to. Once this is the case, the words once again become superfluous.

                Andrew
                Sifu Andrew Barnett
                Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

                Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
                Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
                Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

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                • #53
                  Lost in Translation II

                  Dear Sihing,

                  You wrote
                  Originally posted by Antonius View Post
                  I would be curious to hear comments and suggestions, particularly from those who actively practice the 10 Shaolin Laws.

                  Taking the words "forbidden" and "required" out of the laws weakens them remarkably. Saying "avoid associating with evil people" makes it sound like it's kind of a good idea to do so, somewhat on par with saying "avoid eating too much before going to bed".

                  With Kind Regards,
                  Sidai
                  Charles David Chalmers
                  Brunei Darussalam

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by cha muir View Post
                    Taking the words "forbidden" and "required" out of the laws weakens them remarkably. Saying "avoid associating with evil people" makes it sound like it's kind of a good idea to do so, somewhat on par with saying "avoid eating too much before going to bed".
                    I hadn't thought of that when I read it, but now I agree.

                    There's a real danger of falling into to the pick-and-choose morality we seem to have developed in the West. In which you can decide what religion you are, and use that to decide what Laws you follow, given some modifications for things you can't be bothered with.

                    To me, Laws aren't about personal preference. They're about fulfilling our duty to other people.

                    Chris.

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                    • #55
                      From my perspective I can see what Siheng Andrew is getting at.

                      In my process of recovery from alcohol addiction I was introduced to 12 steps to stopping drinking and living a happy and fulfilled life.

                      It was explained to me that I could take them or leave them but that people who had direct experience of them knew they worked. They also knew from direct experience that they only worked if a person worked them.

                      It was suggested that I look at the people who followed them. If I wanted what they had it might make sense to try the steps out and see what happened.

                      In the end, for me, doesn't matter whether I am forbidden/obliged/required the important thing is whether I do anything about them.

                      However, Sifu is also quite clear and explicit

                      The most important requirement for participating in any of these courses is to follow and be abided by The Ten Shaolin Laws. Please read these Ten Shaolin Laws carefully before you consider applying.
                      My understanding of this is two fold:
                      if people want to get benefits from the course then they need to understand that these things are part of the practice
                      if you want to benefit from remaining a member of the Shaolin Wahnam school then this is the behaviour/approach to life that is required

                      So, they are a requirement if you want to get benefits and remain a member of Shaolin Wahnam.

                      My experience is that different people, in different times and different circumstances react to words differently. For me the 9th and 10th Law come in here:

                      Obliged to be humane, compassionate and spread love, and to realize everlasting peace and happiness for all people.

                      Obliged to be chivalrous and generous, to nurture talents and pass on the Shaolin arts to deserving disciples.
                      or
                      Be humane and compassionate; strive to spread peace and happiness.
                      Be chivalrous and generous, and pass on the Shaolin arts to deserving students.
                      Either way why would I let words come in the way of passing on something that could bring peace and happiness to the Universe.

                      Metta,

                      Barry
                      Profile at Capio Nightingale Hospital London Click here
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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by shaolin_mike View Post
                        I for one would like to be a bit controversial and say the laws are fine as they are I cant see the value in playing with the words to put stuff we like in or take stuff we don't like out. It is true they do not sound modern but they aren't really meant to they were written many centuries ago. Niether do they sound antiquated like 'Do not covet thy neighbours oxen' so I dont see the problem with sounding a bit old school.

                        If you do decide to rephrase them by all means check the original chinese first as a few people have mentioned, that way you will go closer to the original meaning not further away.

                        My 2 Euro cents

                        I gotta say, I agree with Mike here.

                        Valid discussion as this is, 'personally' I like em just the way they are
                        "It's no secret that a friend is someone who lets you help". from the song The Fly by U2

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Mark B View Post
                          Speaking of the original chinese, where does it come from? A book, an inscription, or an oral transmition?

                          Does anybody know when they were written? (Or first spoken?) And by whom?
                          I'd like to know that too
                          "It's no secret that a friend is someone who lets you help". from the song The Fly by U2

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            The 10 Laws were first written by Sifu when he became a sifu.....in the Shaolin spirit.

                            Not sure whether in Chinese ( as all Sifu's students were chinese only initially)first and later into English or simultaneously.

                            The guiding spirit of the original feels all encompassing.
                            Damian Kissey
                            Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
                            www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

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                            • #59
                              I remember Sifu once saying that he "revived" the 10 Shaolin Laws. I cannot remember if he said that he found them, or something similar, in a classic. I'll try to remember to ask him when I see him.
                              Sifu Anthony Korahais
                              www.FlowingZen.com
                              (Click here to learn more about me.)

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                              • #60
                                Wahnam revival

                                Yes , "revived " is very apt.

                                Sifu said there were other earlier sets of Shaolin Laws but i believe Shaolin Wahnam's is the first in English by an modern English educated Traditional Shaolin Grandmaster.Sifu's foresight ( took a degree in teaching English language even before Wahnam was "forced " to go global) is exemplary of law no 10.
                                Damian Kissey
                                Shaolin Wahnam Sabah , Malaysia .
                                www.shaolinwahnamsabah.com

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