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The Ten Shaolin Laws

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  • #31
    Which means (with respect to this thread)?

    Andrew
    Sifu Andrew Barnett
    Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

    Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
    Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
    Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

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    • #32
      Originally posted by WahnamCH
      Which means (with respect to this thread)?

      Andrew
      baby's must learn to walk on their own.

      Comment


      • #33
        ... and they do so without the need of psychadelic mushrooms.

        Uki, please seek help.

        Andrew
        Sifu Andrew Barnett
        Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

        Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
        Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
        Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by WahnamCH
          Uki, please seek help.
          i did and i have found it.

          Comment


          • #35
            Being grateful

            Originally posted by cha muir
            One Law that I have been reflecting on a great deal recently is "forbidden to be ungrateful"

            I like to read this as "required to be grateful".

            I recently had a great deal of difficulty and actually fell ill as a result of ingratitude: I just couldn't see how lucky I was, and how much I had to be grateful for.

            Now I have recovered from my illness (for which I am very grateful ) and I feel tremendous gratitude for even the smallest things, and, surprisingly, even for those things that I was previously complaining about.
            Wonderful!

            Dear Charles,

            You could try the followig experiment, about 'being grateful'.

            You will need a partner to help you.
            Please sit comfortably in front of your partner. Then close your eyes, enter chikung state of mind, and then pray to God according to your faith. At the first part of your prayer, ask several things, anything you might want, that God will give you or will help you have the things you want.
            After that, pray again, but this time do not ask anything, instead say your gratitude to God, for whatever you already have and for whatever you do not have. In short, just being grateful.

            While you are praying, your partner is taking notice of your closed eyes, particularly the lids of the eyes, whether they are motionless, or there are actions in it, like blinking, or vibrating; and make the notes about it by writing on a piece of paper. It is very important that while taking notes, he is not aware of what you are doing (or thinking)
            (You explained and asked your partner that he had to notice the movements of your eyelids and to take notes, before doing the experiment, without informing him what you would be doing in yoir prayer).

            After a while, finish your prayer, and then take a look at the notes written by your partner. You will know when the eyes were very calm, or when they were blinking, is it when you asked something from God, or is it when you were in the state of being grateful.

            Best regards,
            Joko

            P.S. Most people ask something when praying to God, and only very few who only express their gratitude, and ask nothing, while praying......
            Last edited by joko; 30 April 2006, 10:41 AM.
            开心 好运气
            kai xin... .......hao yunqi... - Sifu's speech, April 2005
            open heart... good chi flow... good luck ...
            ------------------------------------------------------------
            Have we not opened up thy heart ...? (The Reading, 94:1)
            ------------------------------------------------------------
            Be joyful, ..and share your joy with others -(Anand Krishna)

            Comment


            • #36
              I am happy to notice that Sifu gives another example of the importance of gratitude to God, as can be seen in the last part of Answer 1 in the recent Sifu's Q&A series, June 2006 part 2. http://shaolin.org/answers/ans06a/jun06-2.html

              Joko
              开心 好运气
              kai xin... .......hao yunqi... - Sifu's speech, April 2005
              open heart... good chi flow... good luck ...
              ------------------------------------------------------------
              Have we not opened up thy heart ...? (The Reading, 94:1)
              ------------------------------------------------------------
              Be joyful, ..and share your joy with others -(Anand Krishna)

              Comment


              • #37
                Humble Annotations

                The following comments are from a guest/ newbie and should not be read as disrepectful:
                I have problems with these laws. But these problems are just on the language level.

                1. "The binding is moral. But they are not forced upon the follower; the follower accepts them because he chooses to, because he believes they are helpful to him in his physical, emotional, mental and spiritual cultivation."

                I thought moral binding is not about following rules that are meant to be good for your own cultivation. (at least not directly!)
                There was this concept of being moral in which "moral" meant one is following principles (and their local/temporal standards) that one wished to be applied to and by everyone (even to themselves). Moral always is dependent on the surrounding.
                So in short this is a group thing. Different groups - different moral.

                2. Since I think there are too many abstract things in these laws that sometimes double themselves I'd like to make little suggestions.

                I. Respect the elders!
                [Could mean anyone from master to parents.]

                II. Learn diligently!

                III. Protect the young and weak!
                [The rest is included in I.]

                IV. Be righteous and courageous!
                [This is most abstract. One could list a set of rules following which means to be righteous. These rules will be quite similar to the Shaolin laws themselves, I guess. I left out "be wise", because one cannot require somebody to be wise. Even if I will be wise someday in the far future I will still break this law, because I will never consider myself wise.]

                V. Be grateful!

                VI. Don't hurt anyone or anything!
                [The evil things that are listed in this law all fall under "hurting". Doing evil means doing anything agains moral. So "don't do evil" means "respect the (moral) laws".]

                VII. Don't meet wicked people!
                [Not doing wicked things is included in the other laws. Not associating with wicked people is problematic: By which standard are they wicked? How can I judge? And how can I help them?]

                VIII. Don't abuse your power!

                IX. Be compassionate and spread love to other people!
                [This is also the main teaching of Jesus Christ. I think it includes all "don't do"s.]

                X. Nurture talents and pass on the Shaolin Arts to deserving disciples!

                Acutally I like the ten Shaolin laws. It definetely improves life (yours and that of the people around you) to apply them. The teaching they offer is of great value. So please don't be to harsh with my little thoughts.
                Just a bear of little brains.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by WahnamCH View Post
                  Another from me uki --- sorry. If your post is relevant to the discussion at hand, I'm afraid you lost me.

                  Andrew
                  uki's comment makes perfect sense to me. If you regard something as perfect ("too bright") you stop looking for faults ("blinds the eye").
                  Just a bear of little brains.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Actually, I agree that the Ten Shaolin Laws could be rewritten in a more modern and accessible tone. As they stand now, they sound to my ear like a poor translation from the Chinese, and they always leave me wondering what the original really says. I'm guessing that the Chinese is a lot more poetic.

                    Nevertheless, I think there are some problems with your modifications. For example, the first law is more involved than simply respecting your elders. Sifu is younger than some of his students, so we need to be more specific. Similarly, the 2nd law does not say learn diligently, but practice diligently. This is an important distinction.

                    Several of the laws include more than one sentiment. Again, this isn't a problem in Chinese. The Chinese are not nearly as linear in their thinking. But in English, it gets confusing when a law says more than one thing.

                    Personally, I take issue with the 2nd law, that requires us to be physically and mentally healthy. This is no longer applicable because in Shaolin Wahnam, we now share our secrets with everyone in an effort to relieve suffering and illness. A large majority of Shaolin Wahnam students and instructors were not healthy before practicing the Shaolin Arts.

                    Here's a version that might help to make the laws more a bit more accessible and comprehensible to in our modern world. I would be curious to hear comments and suggestions, particularly from those who actively practice the 10 Shaolin Laws.
                    1. Respect your teacher, honor the tradition, and love fellow students as you would your brothers and sisters.
                    2. Train the Shaolin arts diligently, and strive towards physical, mental, and emotional health.
                    3. Be filial towards your parents, respectful towards the elderly, and protective of the young.
                    4. Uphold righteousness, and strive to be both wise and courageous.
                    5. Do not be ungrateful or unscrupulous; do not ignore the natural laws of the Universe, nor the laws of man.
                    6. Do not rape, molest, steal, rob, abduct, cheat, or lie.
                    7. Avoid associating with evil people; similarly, avoid evil in yourself.
                    8. Do not abuse power, be it official or physical.
                    9. Be humane and compassionate; strive to spread peace and happiness.
                    10. Be chivalrous and generous, and pass on the Shaolin arts to deserving students.
                    Last edited by Antonius; 7 September 2006, 03:32 PM.
                    Sifu Anthony Korahais
                    www.FlowingZen.com
                    (Click here to learn more about me.)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Pooh Bear View Post
                      uki's comment makes perfect sense to me. If you regard something as perfect ("too bright") you stop looking for faults ("blinds the eye").
                      As it makes perfect sense to you, perhaps you could translate it for us.

                      We don't think we are perfect. But we do strive to better ourselves. We don't do that by doing evil deeds just to remind ourselves of our imperfectness. We are aware.

                      All this talk about "brightness" reminds me of another discussion with uki. He claimed that there should be balance between our arts and the dark arts, basically a balance between good and evil. He failed to see that he was trapped in his own intellectualization, visualization and clinging to the words.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Dear Sihing Anthony,

                        although I am unable to determine the level of language used in current Ten Shaolin Laws, I agree with you, this might be a good time for a "cosmetic" change.

                        Here's a version that might help to make the laws more a bit more accessible and comprehensible to in our modern world. I would be curious to hear comments and suggestions, particularly from those who actively practice the 10 Shaolin Laws.
                        1. Respect your teacher, honor the tradition, and love fellow students as you would your brothers and sisters.
                        2. Train the Shaolin arts diligently, and strive towards physical, mental, and emotional health.
                        3. Be filial towards your parents, respectful towards the elderly, and protective of the young.
                        4. Uphold righteousness, and strive to be both wise and courageous.
                        5. Do not be ungrateful or unscrupulous; do not ignore the natural laws of the Universe, nor the laws of man.
                        6. Do not rape, molest, steal, rob, abduct, cheat, or lie.
                        7. Avoid associating with evil people; similarly, avoid evil in yourself.
                        8. Do not abuse power, be it official or physical.
                        9. Be humane and compassionate; strive to spread peace and happiness.
                        10. Be chivalrous and generous, and pass on the Shaolin arts to deserving students.
                        I think this version is great. I especially like how you've managed to convey the meaning without the words "required", "forbidden" and "obliged", making it more lively.

                        I have two small personal preferences, however:
                        - I'd prefer the law number 7 to be slightly more absolute, somehow plain "avoid" sounds a bit too "convenient" to me. Perhaps it would be better if it was changed to "Do not associate with evil people; similarly, avoid evil in yourself." (I may be missing some deeper nuances here, English is not my mother tonque.)
                        - Also, I'd like to see love included in the law number 9: "Be humane and compassionate; strive to spread peace, love and happiness."

                        Anyway, the old Ten Shaolin Laws are still magnificent. It's not the words that matter, but the deeper meaning. In other words: the secret lies not in its form but in its application.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Tapio Raevaara View Post

                          Anyway, the old Ten Shaolin Laws are still magnificent. It's not the words that matter, but the deeper meaning. In other words: the secret lies not in its form but in its application.
                          I wholeheartedly agree as well.

                          Siheng Anthony's interpretation of the Ten Shaolin Laws for the modern world, especially the 2nd law, is great. The newer generation might be more willing and open to the new interpretation than the old one.

                          With Shaolin Salute,
                          Lee Wei Joo
                          http://shaolinwahnammalaysia.com/

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Yes, I agree that it would be a good idea to learn from the original Chinese writings. We could ask our experts within the Shaolin WahNam family about this.

                            The following is my contribution to the discussion.

                            In my sense, in Law no.1, the phrase 'the Moral Way' means something deeper and broader than 'tradition.'
                            The term Master includes the past masters, besides our teacher. In broader sense, it will include also spiritual masters of the past and present.

                            If we examine the Laws, which part represents the mind expansion and spiritual fulfillment? It might be included in the term 'the Master' and 'the Moral Way' in Law no.1, and in the term Laws of Heaven (natural laws of the Universe) in Law no. 5.

                            Personally, I take issue with the 2nd law, that requires us to be physically and mentally healthy. This is no longer applicable because in Shaolin Wahnam, we now share our secrets with everyone in an effort to relieve suffering and illness. A large majority of Shaolin Wahnam students and instructors were not healthy before practicing the Shaolin Arts.
                            In my opinion, the term pre-requisite is still applicable, today, and in the future. It might be possible that the term 'mentally healthy' includes the aspect of 'spiritually healthy' as well. So, by putting this as a pre-requisite, it reminds us that mind expansion and spiritual fulfillment are always part of the purpose of our training. Also as a guard against giving too much emphasize on the combat aspect of the training. Again, we should check the original writings in Chinese.

                            Respectfully,

                            Joko
                            Last edited by joko; 8 September 2006, 05:13 AM.
                            开心 好运气
                            kai xin... .......hao yunqi... - Sifu's speech, April 2005
                            open heart... good chi flow... good luck ...
                            ------------------------------------------------------------
                            Have we not opened up thy heart ...? (The Reading, 94:1)
                            ------------------------------------------------------------
                            Be joyful, ..and share your joy with others -(Anand Krishna)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Antonius View Post
                              Actually, I agree that the Ten Shaolin Laws could be rewritten in a more modern and accessible tone. As they stand now, they sound to my ear like a poor translation from the Chinese, and they always leave me wondering what the original really says. I'm guessing that the Chinese is a lot more poetic.

                              Nevertheless, I think there are some problems with your modifications. For example, the first law is more involved than simply respecting your elders. Sifu is younger than some of his students, so we need to be more specific. Similarly, the 2nd law does not say learn diligently, but practice diligently. This is an important distinction.

                              Several of the laws include more than one sentiment. Again, this isn't a problem in Chinese. The Chinese are not nearly as linear in their thinking. But in English, it gets confusing when a law says more than one thing.
                              There was this saying "tradittore es traduttore" (italian spelling?). Eventually this means a translator is a traitor. This could easily apply to the formulation of the laws as in the beginning of this threat. Just as you said.

                              "Respect the elders!"
                              Well, to me a teacher belongs to the elders no matter what his/her age is. I didn't clarify it, sorry.

                              I know that these laws did contain more than one sentiment each. But some sentiments mean the same in execution. The 6th law is the best example. If you list the bad things AND say don't do evil this means the same, doesn't it? And not hurting also includes rape, murder, molestation and the likes.

                              I think training and learning do not differ so much. I am learning while training.
                              Just a bear of little brains.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Tapio Raevaara View Post
                                As it makes perfect sense to you, perhaps you could translate it for us.

                                We don't think we are perfect. But we do strive to better ourselves. We don't do that by doing evil deeds just to remind ourselves of our imperfectness. We are aware.

                                All this talk about "brightness" reminds me of another discussion with uki. He claimed that there should be balance between our arts and the dark arts, basically a balance between good and evil. He failed to see that he was trapped in his own intellectualization, visualization and clinging to the words.
                                Reread my post!


                                It already contains my translation. If it is still cryptic: You see something. You like it. You love it. You stop seeing it's faults. You are then blinded by it's light (which eventually is your love for the thing). Nothing is perfect.
                                I know that you didn't regard yourself as perfect (at least I hope so.) I think uki's comment aimed at the laws themselves, but I cannot be sure since I cannot look into uki's head. And I don't know the discussion about dark arts. And from your comment it sounds like something I don't need to read.
                                Just a bear of little brains.

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