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  • #16
    be gentle

    I agree with Black Hole, especially about being careful not to abandon anti-hypertensive drugs without the right conditions.

    To answer the question about my patient might be informative to people in this forum. I have only taught qigong to a handful of people, less than 10, and I am still learning not only the technical aspects, but also the more important lessons of teaching. Here is a good example.

    I was encouraged by my patient's quick results in lowering his blood pressure. I suggested he practice the Moving Form at least three times a day, and twice a day for the Non-moving Form, which is a meditation. I knew that it was his best chance to recover from his kidney failure, and I was confident that if he followed my suggestion, he would eventually recover his health. It seemed that at least once a month he had a close brush with death due to his many illnesses or because of a doctor's or nurse's mistake, and I thought his quick immersion in qigong was the only chance he had to survive.

    Because of this, I put some pressure on my patient to practice more than once a day, even though he told me that because of his back pain, it hurt a lot to do the simple hand exercises of this qigong. I called him every other day to check on him and give him a long distance qi-healing, and he always reported that it made him feel better. I visited him during his dialysis treatments to try and show him how to practice the meditation while he was sitting for 3-4 hours. He complained the room was too bright to close his eyes and make the visualizations in his mind, so I bought him a sleep mask, and gave him a cassette player with some calming music.

    However, even though he was improving, and despite my good intentions, after four months he stopped practicing. When I called him, he politely, and showing obvious sympathy for me, found a kind way to let me know not to call him again.

    Looking back, it's obvious I put too much pressure on him to practice. I learned that to be a good teacher, especially with the internal arts, I must always focus on what the student wants and needs, not what I want to give him. I cannot teach something to someone they don't want to know, and I should never put pressure on a student, but let things happen in a gradual and gentle way.

    I happen to believe now that illnesses are part of a person's fate or karma, and that healers play their role when trying to help and cure their patients. Somtimes a cure is found, sometimes the patient moves on and finds another treatment, or perhaps just continues suffering, and sometimes the patient dies. It is beyond my control. I can only give my sincere effort and always focus on the patient, and not on what I want, and not on the power I would like to feel by curing him and believing my abilities are so great.

    I have not heard from my patient since June 2004. He is probably still alive and making jokes whenever he has close calls with death.

    Best wishes,
    Michael
    Take kindness and benevolence as basis.
    Take frankness and friendliness to heart.

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    • #17
      Root Causes!

      Black Hole:

      I agree with you that the TCM Syndromes are not designations of root causes, but are merely 'labels' of disease symptoms much like the Disease Diagnosis Names of Western Medicine. As such, they identify 'effects', not 'causes'. Given the fact that all things are subject to the laws of Cause and Effect, every illness and disease involves the manifestation of observable symptoms resulting from some underlying cause. The fact that the underlying cause is not always easily identified, or never identified, does not mean that such a cause does not exist. Are these 'puzzle problems' then destined to be 'incurable', and merely abandoned to 'fall through the cracks' of treatment care by all modalities without any hope of ever being helped? Or shuffled off to the side as psychiatric problems which the patient cannot or will not let go of? These are easy resolutions for the Primary Health Care Providers, but surely do nothing to benefit the patients, wouldn't you agree? So once again, I am wondering what you think and feel would be the best way to resolve such cases? I look forward to your response!
      http://www.shenmentao.com/forum/

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      • #18
        To cure, to relieve and to comfort.

        Sifu Stier,

        The primary goal of all health care providers should be to cure diseases ( if this is possible and feasible). If we cannot achieve this, the next goal is to relieve the symptoms, and if that is still not possible, we can always comfort the patients. Even if we do know the cause, we cannot always cure the disease, e.g. AIDS.
        Fortunately, even if we do not know the cause, a disease is not automatically incurable. Many diseases dissappear spontaneously.This spontaneous remissions have been reported in the medical literatures, incl. cancers and many other so-called incurable diseases. There are still more questions than answers in the medical world and if you happen to meet an arrogant doctor who thinks that he knows a lot about medicine, he/she is either inexperienced or just a frog in the well.

        It is sadly true that patients with certain aspecific symptoms in which we cannot identify the cause(s) are put in the category of "Psy". It means that the patients have psychological or psychiatrical problems. This is certainly unjustified but this is the reality in the western medical practice.
        These patients usually consult health providers specializing in Alternative Medicines.

        To solve the problem is not easy; the western(conventional) medical doctors should first recognize that western medicine cannot solve all health problems and they should study other Medicines that use other paradigms than theirs. At the same time, the health providers in Alternative Medicine should work side-by-side with providers of Western Medicine.The first step is to be professional in their fields and provide as much as evidences to their western counterparts and they should also know their limits. When I began with acupuncture practice, my western colleagues were sceptical but now many M.D.'s refer their patients to me and even some professors of the nearby medical faculty come to get acupuncture treatment.
        For the practitioners of Chinese Medicine, they shoud be very careful when using medical terminology e.g. never say to patients that they have problems with their kidneys, liver, heart or other organs because these medical terms can be used against them. As you know, someone can have weak kidneys (TCM term) but the kidneys are in fact normal (according to Western medicine). Kidneys are healthy if the blood creatinine, BUN, uric acid and urine tests are normal. This can be the source of misunderstanding, even hilarious remarks in the medical meetings but they do not know that Chinese Medicine use different paradigm and these organ names are the names of systems, not organs in the sense of anatomical meaning as known in the modern medicine.

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        • #19
          I should have written that the primary goal is to prevent diseases.

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          • #20
            the western(conventional) medical doctors should first recognize that western medicine cannot solve all health problems and they should study other Medicines that use other paradigms than theirs.
            Amen to that!

            At the same time, the health providers in Alternative Medicine should work side-by-side with providers of Western Medicine.
            In my limited experience, many acupuncturists are trying to do this, but the task is harder when the majority (but not all) of Western doctors view acupuncturists as quacks.
            Sifu Anthony Korahais
            www.FlowingZen.com
            (Click here to learn more about me.)

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            • #21
              it's just a placebo effect

              Late last December, as reported by Antonius, there was a study showing the benefits of acupuncture for knee pain. It was the first large scale US study of its kind. During the same week the study's results were released in the news, I watched a TV program that had been made about a year earlier where a woman high up in the US National Inst. of Health, the organization that eventually agreed to pay for the acupuncture study, quickly dismissed the entirety of acpuncture, and any history it may have, as simply a placebo effect. The look on her face and her tone of voice were as though she just administered a powerful astringent to her mind.

              Sometimes it seems that people want to hold on very tightly to their ideas, and often the reason for this is that to consider another viewpoint seems threatening to one's own struggle for power, money, or "face". Except in rare cases, you can't make a direct effort to show this kind of person something new, but eventually, they may slowly and gradually feel comfortable to consider a new idea and realize its benefits. The improvement of race relations in the USA since the 1950's is an example of slow and steady success in developing new attitudes.

              Perhaps the efforts of Sifu Wong and his students, as well as many others (including those very knowledgable people who contribute to this forum), will eventually help conventional Western medicine to reconsider certain ideas about health, and also examine its own practices that do more for the practitioner and less for the patient. It must take time.

              Michael
              Last edited by Michael Udel; 28 February 2005, 01:02 AM.
              Take kindness and benevolence as basis.
              Take frankness and friendliness to heart.

              Comment


              • #22
                I have to meet the first person who call me quack.

                As far as I can remember, in the last randomized enquête conducted by a consumer organization only about 30% of the MD's do not believe that acupuncture works, while the rest are believers or have no opinion. In Belgium the popularity of Alternative Medicine is growing. Understandably, this is not in everyone's interest because our health system is mostly run by politicians (and through lobbying, by drug companies?).
                Can you imagine how many revenue loss will the drug companies suffer if all MD's are trained in acupuncture?

                Without trying to be the devil's advocate, I believe that the majority of MD's are just victims of bad campaigns or they get wrong information about "soft and more natural medicines" ,esp. in the industrialized countries. While most medical researchs are sponsored by these powerful companies, it is very hard to find a sponsor who will conduct a large scale and extensive study on acupuncture (unless the end result is less favorable for acupuncture?).

                Sadly the once trusted medical sources and organizations, such as New England Journal of Medicine(NEJM) and Food and Drug Administration(FDA) are not reliable anymore. 10 of the 32 members of FDA have past relationships with the drug companies. Dr. Marcia Angell, the former editor of NEJM, one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world, was forced to resign after her publication "Is Academic Medicine for Sale" appeared (NEJM May 18, 2000;342) and she was replaced by a Harvard professor who has connections with at least 9 major drug companies.

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                • #23
                  I decided to resurrect this thread because of the apt title

                  I have come across many qigong practitioners or healthy people whose blood pressure readings are not at the ideal 110/80 reading that is recommended by various medical associations.

                  Hypertension or high blood pressure is a label, result, or a symptom of something, but in and of itself, it is not a disease. Work stress, late nights, or simply "liver false energy rising", blockages or Type A personalities are all possible causes. My own BP flucates around the 120/80 level which used to be clinically ideal but has since been considered "pre-hypertension". On the other hand, my father, who has always had a hot temper, and suffers from many other ailments, has consistenly optimal BP readings (110/80) for his age - actually, this is a great reading for any age.

                  For those of you whose BP levels are not at the current optimal level (as determined by Western medical paradigms) but practice qigong, what are your thoughts? Do such readings affect how you view your own health? (I admit, this is a pointed question)
                  百德以孝为先
                  Persevere in correct practice

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                  • #24
                    Dear Sihing Zhang Wuji,

                    it's long ago, but I remember that my first love had high BP from birth on. His doctor told him he wouldn't prescribe drugs because of his youth.
                    To my opinion, if someone is born with high BP he is in normal condition with it, why then take drugs?
                    I do not know anything about him now, but hopefully he does not take drugs but practice Qigong!
                    ... alles, alles, alles ist doch auf Liebe aufgebaut ..." (Ellen Auerbach, 1997)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Zhang Wuji View Post
                      I decided to resurrect this thread because of the apt title

                      I have come across many qigong practitioners or healthy people whose blood pressure readings are not at the ideal 110/80 reading that is recommended by various medical associations.

                      Hypertension or high blood pressure is a label, result, or a symptom of something, but in and of itself, it is not a disease. Work stress, late nights, or simply "liver false energy rising", blockages or Type A personalities are all possible causes. My own BP flucates around the 120/80 level which used to be clinically ideal but has since been considered "pre-hypertension". On the other hand, my father, who has always had a hot temper, and suffers from many other ailments, has consistenly optimal BP readings (110/80) for his age - actually, this is a great reading for any age.

                      For those of you whose BP levels are not at the current optimal level (as determined by Western medical paradigms) but practice qigong, what are your thoughts? Do such readings affect how you view your own health? (I admit, this is a pointed question)
                      One has to look at other factors as being the cause but HBP is a major problem in the presence of other disease states. By itself, 120/80 may be too high while saying that a high WHR and BMI will contribute to raising said blood presure.

                      Another way to assess 120/80 range is family history of other diseases usually chronic, which in the absence of disease may be a good thing (normal per current range) but with other conditions (circulatory and metabolic), a deadly combination. I havea family history of hypertension but it was/is controlled by diet and other exercise.

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