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Dear sifu
Thanks for the reply. This, after all seems to be even more complicated than I thought....
As I am your Sifu, Jamie would be your honoured Siheng I think.
Though you are my sifu ( that was easy to figure out ) and Jamie is a sifu too, I just thought that he might be my Uncle.
For if Sifu means master/father and Jamie would be your siheng or sidai ( senior/ junior brother ) he therefor must be my uncle....
But I seemed to be wrong so we'll have to discuss that on a future occasion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He who knows much about others may be learned, but he who understands himself is more intelligent. He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.
Sifu Wong is 4th Generation, I am 5th (learned from Sifu Wong first) and Jamie is 6th (learned from me first).
Due to his hard work, dilligent practice and good heart, Jamie has been made a Shaolin Wahnam instructor. However, he is still sixth generation and the usual family terms are used.
An enjoyable exception to this could be a senior student, either 5th or 6th generation, addressing Jamie as "Sihing". This, though technically incorrect, could be used to compliment Jamie on his skill and experience.
Hope this helps,
Darryl
Last edited by Darryl; 25 February 2007, 03:45 PM.
My Monkey Bros pointed out quite an interessting aspect.
If in doubt first just look at the generation. Jamie is a Sifu because of his promotion to be a full instructor, which results in having his own students. As he's having his own students, he simply becomes a Sifu.
"From formless to form, from form to formless"
26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong
So Thanks a lot Darryl Si Pak
Your post made it very much clearer to me. so it's due to the generatins the family terms are normaly given and not to the state of expierience. Ok that cleares a lot of confusion in my head.
Thank you to sifu, so you were right. Just to make it totaly clear, I never doubted your knowledge, I just wanted to show what was going on in my untrained total beginner-brain, so that it can be corrected. And Darryl did so, thanks again.
PS: @ Darryl; allready heard a lot of you, I hope to meet you someday......
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He who knows much about others may be learned, but he who understands himself is more intelligent. He who controls others may be powerful, but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.
In classical novels (which may differ from the Southern Shaolin tradition), the terms "Shimu (Simu)" and "Shiguma (Sikuma)" are reserved for the spouses of the master or the senior (male) disciple respectively, and do not refer to your martial art seniors in the lineage. As a rule, even if your Shibo or Shishu (Sipak/Sisook) are ladies, they would still be addressed as if they were male. Your master who teaches you would always be a Shifu (Sifu) even if she is a lady master. There is a term for the husband of the lady Sifu but I cannot for the life of me remember what it is now.
Would somebody be so kind and help me solve the following "knots" in my understanding of how to use the family titles?
How would the following people be adressed considering that I first learned from Sifu (Roland) and am therefore 6th generation?
A student of another Shaolin Wahnam instructor -> Would here the generation work - As he/she is also a 6th generation would the brother/sister titles be used? And if so would the Junior/Senor be based on when we started to study first or when our Sifu's learned first? (My "real" family is very small - so no uncles/aunts .. and thus a bit lost even in "western" family titles).
A student who started the same day as I under the same instructor. All things being equal would then the age be deciding about the Shiheng or Sidai ?
I think post #7 in this very thread has what you are looking for. It also talks about "tie-breakers" used to determine seniority.
For instance, I am also 6th generation (my Sifu is Anthony), and I believe I started before you, so I think I would address you as Simui and you would address me as Siheng.
As you are a student of my Siheng, Sifu Roland that would make me your (Junior?) Kung Fu uncle. Hmm. Does the Junior indicate that Sifu Roland is Senior to me? Is that right?
As you are a student of my Siheng, Sifu Roland that would make me your (Junior?) Kung Fu uncle. Hmm. Does the Junior indicate that Sifu Roland is Senior to me? Is that right?
Best wishes,
Sisook,
Yes Sisook I believe that is right.
Enjoy some Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan & Qi Gong!
Evening Classes in Zürich
Weekend Classes in other Swiss locations
I first learned from Sifu Rama, who first learned from Sifu Wong, which makes him 5th generation and me 6th generation, right? Now that I've learned from Sifu Wong, do I still use names for others based on my learning from Sifu Rama? Or do I change it up? For example if I'm 6th generation Sifu Emiko would be my aunt, but if it changes she would be my big sister.
I sense much Sifu Andrew radiating from you with this statement
Well, I definitely take that as a compliment!
After posting it, I actually thought it sounded a bet pretentious, but I was at work and didn't really have the time to go back and edit. Glad you got the meaning.
I first learned from Sifu Rama, who first learned from Sifu Wong, which makes him 5th generation and me 6th generation, right? Now that I've learned from Sifu Wong, do I still use names for others based on my learning from Sifu Rama?
Yes. You still call Rama Siheng your Sifu, and Sifu (Sifu Wong) your Sigung.
You would still call me your Sisook, and Emiko Sijie would still be your aunt.
Kind regards,
Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts
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