What is "spirituality"?

[Xia]

Dear xia ,

Relax , take a deep breath and focus : being pompous on a high chair lecturing to us lowly ones in our own forum in a negative state of mind is not good for your health .
What you call attacking is actually a helping hand .
You feel hurt because your egocentric world view is undergoing a paradigm shift . Mainstream pompous authorities feel hurt and arrested Master Galileo and put him in jail because they cannot bear the truth about the falsity of the earth centric solar system.....they think the great scientist is attacking them when all he is doing is telling them about the Tao , the natural truth .

That is what makes Grandmaster Wang & Wong great : they tell people never to stop learning , for self discovery .....xia , heed Sifu Wang's wisdom for a positive development in your limited earth sojourn.

Well now, quite the one for false analogies here at Wahnam. You compare yourself to Galileo, who stood up against superstitious beliefs in the face a massive, hostile dogmatic system? I rather think you have those *reverse glasses* on once again.

As for the new age tripe, I rather think a closer anaology is with the Soviet Union, where dissidents where attacked by questioning a person's mental state - a standard and despicable means of attack. A person is not mad, or *negative* just because they see through nonsense. Bt it is interesting to see you use this tactic of attacking the person - as if just to question you is a sign of *negative* ego madness.

Galileo my eye!

X

[Innes]

unconditional Grace

Dear All,

Dr Damian's words are incredibly inspiring in showing the power and kindness in a spiritual message.

It is simple but not easy . Have courage , for help comes to those who sincerely work for it.

This quote is truly a gift and inspires the message of Great Spiritual Masters who say the Grace of the cosmos (or the Grace of God) falls like rain from the sky on every one, you just need to open up and accept it.

Like the gift of a sunny day cannot be enjoyed or even realized in a dark room but by venturing to open a window you can realize the unconditional gift of light.

Dr Damian is also inspiring for spiritual skills like tolerance to continually give a message of hope and non exclusion even if its not well received. Letting people know that there is always the opportunity to change your mind and always the Grace there to help you when you need it. This message is worth all the success and failures experienced trying to spread it.

There is a quote from the Buddha that I will have to paraphrase,

There are 80,000 forms of human ignorance. If you vow to help the Human race you have to be prepared to put up with 80,000 forms of abuse.

I have had conversations in the past where I have condemned religions and spiritual people and I was sure I was right then, so I cannot say that Xia is wrong in his statements. When I look back I can see them as a necessary sage to form the questions I needed answered and only with the Grace of the cosmos I feel I am opening up to the gifts that have always been there.

Thanks for the great posts and the help to those who have chosen to work hard for self discovery.
All the Best,

[Damian Kissey]

Of course , there is hope for everyone , including xia.....

Well now, quite the one for false analogies here at Wahnam. You compare yourself to Galileo, who stood up against superstitious beliefs in the face a massive, hostile dogmatic system? I rather think you have those *reverse glasses* on once again.

As for the new age tripe, I rather think a closer anaology is with the Soviet Union, where dissidents where attacked by questioning a person's mental state - a standard and despicable means of attack. A person is not mad, or *negative* just because they see through nonsense. Bt it is interesting to see you use this tactic of attacking the person - as if just to question you is a sign of *negative* ego madness.

Galileo my eye!

X

....at least in this link from another discussion forum , xia is humble enough to admit " 6. what i feel are my strengths
My spirit and my word. Also, abiltiy to take a step back and laugh. In kung fu terms, I have a good training spirit, I think - so I get there in the end, even if it takes me longer than some others.

7. what i feel are my weaknesses
Ego, tendency to be over-private. And forms, lol. Also, I'm not happy unless everyone does exactly what I say! Aya!
_________________
You should always maintain a sense of mutual respect. You should not take a position of superiority, whether or not it may be justified.

Wang Xiang Zhai"

http://jiayo.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=34864&sid=7cd44f5fe410dc9f8e5e818a5e9c2eca

[Omar]

Dear Xia, I find it strange how you turn Dr. Kissey's words into personal attacks? I cannot find any trace of it. I think its read that way by you because that is what you seek finding, councious or subconcious.

And if someone DID post personal attacks, it is still up to the reciever to wether one should react in a or way. No one can insult another unless one let oneself be insulted.

A wise man once said to "turn the other cheek"

Now thats spiritual

[Andy]

getting back on topic....

For me, spirituality is understanding the link between my mind and my reality.

[Charles David]

You yourself are responsible for any growth or change in you - you yourself bring yourself forth, and put yourself in the way of any information. You interpret it, you act on it.

No one is responsible for the growth of your spirit but you.

X

Dear Xia,

I am indeed responsible for my growth and change. Thank goodness, however, that I have had some help!

In my situation I was interested in spiritual cultivation and am grateful that I found a teacher who was able to teach me. Now I practice what he has shown me, every single day. This is my responsibility.

I wish you all the best in your path.

With Kindness,

[Innes]

Perspective and Expansiveness

Dear Omar, Andy and Cha Muir,


Really good posts, I agree with all of them.

I think it brings up an aspect of 'what is spirituality?' that is to do with perspective.
I was listening to a radio program that was about the politics of language where a language master was highlighting the weakness of language is that it is always at the mercy of perspective. When politicians speak their ideas they always have to save guard against the possibility that someone will pick up a different meaning to what they want to get across. So they hire experts to compose the correct words that all point to the least number of possible meanings. But it cannot be completely irradicated as for example if someone had a narrow negative perspective they would change the meaning from that intended to one that fits their narrow perspective. On this forum we are lucky we can bypass this weakness with a well placed emotive aid.

only joking

You can usually experience this when reading on the forum. Re-reading can often show an aspect of a post you had missed and so directing you to a
different meaning. In hindsight a difference in mind state may be the cause.

The Spiritual Masters talk of the spiritual perspective as truly expansive so incorporating all perspectives as found in The teachings of non-duality.

One persons terrorist is another mans freedom fighter is a relevant example of the problem with a narrow perspective, there is often no clarity and the right path is blurred with contradictions.

The Spiritual Master expands the perspective to include everyone and every aspect of the cosmos and so actions and advice found in spiritual texts are clear and simple. This also means that the effect is very powerful from a spiritual text because its so open it radiates and has meaning with everything in the cosmos irrespective of creed, religion, sex, position or perspective.

So being responsible for your own growth and change is good but I agree with Cha Muir, if your open enough to accept help as well it is even better. The mind and reality is such a good point because if your mind is expansive to include the whole of the cosmos your reality will be free of obstructions. And having the expansiveness to see beyond a personal attack and not let it move you negatively is also a very good point.

Again I will emphasize my own amazement that we are so lucky because the information and advice in our Art and in these posts are freely given but they should not be taken for granted. We can see the effect it has on people in our everyday lives who are not so fortunate yet.

All the best,

[Andy]

if your mind is expansive to include the whole of the cosmos your reality will be free of obstructions.

Another excellent point Innes; when I commented about mind and reality the importance of expansion of perspective and consciousness didnt occur to me!


Ive brought up this thread again because Ive recently been reading a tremendous book, The Nature of Personal Reality, discussed here, that Id recommend to anyone interested in spirituality and consciousness. Here is a quotation:

"You are a multidimensional personality. Trust the miracle of your own being. Make no divisions between the physical and the spiritual in your lifetimes, for the spiritual speaks with a physical voice and the corporeal body is the creation of the spirit."

[Jose Antonio]

Ken Wilber

Hello, I would like to quote Ken Wilber for a couple definitions of spirituality.

The first, he discusses what spitirual traditions have in common. There are many substancial differences, but he find one common ground: spiritual traditions recognize multi levels of existance in a human being. The number of levels varies from tradition to tradition, from 3 to 4 to 7, but there are many not one. (physical, emotional, mental and spiritual for example).

The second will be how he defines personal development. Going from ego-centric to etno-centric to world-centric. So de development path has to do with reducing or ego and recognizing ourselves as part of something greater and greater.

The third will be the difference between narrow religion and deep spirituality:
“deep spirituality involves the direct investigation of the experimental evidence disclosed in the higher stages of consciousness development” (Wilber. 2002, p. 77), and seeks to transcend separate self in a state of non-dual unity consciousness that is beyond the ego and narrow religion seeks to give meaning and solace to separate the self and thus fortify the ego.
The essential proposal of spiritual traditions is to escape from duality and experience non-duality, or the great void.

From the heart,

Jose Antonio

[Juan Parra]

Spirituality: that magical moment when you find yourself in the middle of a single point of cosmic expansion...

[Badrock]

Spirituality is

Letting Go!

[Ghostly]

Spirituality is...

Getting to know that bit of you which is not your brain, not your body...not your behaviour patterns, not even your memories...
it's what's left when you strip all that away..."the other bit !"

[James L]

Everything and Nothing!

James

[James L]

Hello Xia, I just want to point out that the Shoalin Wahnam students have great respect for our Sifus (and students), we understand that they are our teachers and through personal experiences can help us to help ourselves to change what we need in our lives.

If I were to become a herbalist I would need a parent figure to show me the way of correct practice and discipline. On becoming a Herbalist I would then have the skills and knowledge to practice safely and pass on the skills and knowledge safely. Authors who write books also become parent figures as they pass on information in a written way, poets pass on knowledge and personal perspective through the expression of the word. I feel we are all parents and students at all times but in different ways it just depends on the moment!

A real teacher can come in many forms, an old lady can teach me something whilst I sit on the bus observing and listening, she may have something profound to say that could change my life in an instant, but she herself may not see herself as a spiritual teacher. In the Wahnam institute we understand by title who is who and what relation they are in the family and who would be the best person to communicate with and in what circumstances.

If I wanted to play a professional sport with bat and ball I wouldn’t walk into a professional Football club, I would opt for Cricket or Baseball, that because the rules of football don’t allow for a bat to be used and it would not suit my chosen path with the bat.

Of course everyone has an individual perspective and we honour yours, however our perspectives may differ in some ways. It’s great to share concepts and communicate, I personally enjoy the Shaolin Wahnam perspective because it suits me and through experience I know what is passed on is both powerful and genuine. The teachings are open to all regardless of culture, creed or religion.

Best wishes
James

And yet, who breathed meaning in to all of those acts? Forme, I take utter responsibility for my world - even placing myself in the arms of my parents.




Equating parents with sifus, all though I see your point, is symptomatic of the problems at Wahnam. Parent may be a little like Sifus, I guess, but Sifus are not your parents.

Spiritual cultivation means nothing to me. I am a human being, and all my spirit is here, with me... I don't by the New Age crap that seeks to cure me of being human. My spirit grows naturally, as a natural result of accepting full and total responsibility for myself, my words and my life. If some people call that spirituality, that is fine by me - but for all the help I have ever recieved, I myself brought myself forth to it. So you wonder if I am ungrateful? No. The debt is paid back by helping others in my turn.



The heart of Tao is to understand that all of our meanings and all of our reality, including the meaning we apply to our parents, even ourselves, comes from us - from tao, from the nameless, the no-thing. Regardless of how we view it, the help is there either way... but for some, we accept full responsibility for taking the help.

Part of what is wrong here is that the virtue of gratitude to others has been twisted in to a false sense of being *given*, as if you should scratch the dirt for your own work and understanding. A real teacher encourages you to take responsibility for everythign that you have learned - for every piece of understanding that you struggled with and came to - because they know that that is the only real way to progress.




I am not ego bloated, I just take responsibility for my ego. There is a great difference, and when you see it, maybe you will not need a dream heaven any more.

X

[namaste]

a quick answer

Spirituality is often mistaken to mean religion.

My experience of spirituality is having an intermittent sense of 'self'; a self that I have not constructed; something that has been there since before I was born and has not been created by me in response to the world. It is my perception of my 'core self' which is also all of the cosmos. It is the journey that I feel I am on where I aim to exist in a state where I feel continuously connected to the cosmos and to my 'self' (or non-self) always, rather than the glimpses I experience periodically (usually when I am at extremes of happiness or sadness).

Love to all
Rich