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  • Wahnams view on mental problems

    Hi there,
    I was just wondering what's the shaolin wahnam viewpoint on mental problems, are all mental problems caused by blockages in the energy system and therefore alleviated through chikung or are some problems purely mental and untreatable by chikung. In western psychology a lot of emphasis is put on the subconcious I was wondering is there anything that relates to this in chinese medicine. I have a friend who's been diagnosed with mild schizophrenia and was wondering if anyone knows anybody who has overcome this.
    regards,
    jimi

  • #2
    Moving threads

    Hi folks,

    I moved the thread here from 'Chi Kung Experiences'.

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    • #3
      Several of us --myself included -- have overcome major Depression, but I don't know anyone who has specifically overcome schizophrenia.

      From my perspective, chi kung is the perfect cure for mental disorders, but it can also be the most difficult. There are three aspects to chi kung -- form (movement), breath, and mind.

      A paraplegic can focus on breath and mind and still practice genuine qigong. Similarly, someone with asthma can focus on movement and mind. But what do you do if your mind is the problem?

      You focus on breath and movement, obviously. The problem is that this can sometimes degenerate into gentle exercise instead of genuine qigong. This is where a master or instructor can really help to keep the student on track until his mind calms down.

      If a master is not accessible, then I would recommend finding a *good* (keyword) doctor of Oriental medicine. You might be surprised what a good one can do. On the other hand, you won't be at all surprised how little a bad one can do.
      Last edited by Antonius; 4 September 2004, 10:11 PM.
      Sifu Anthony Korahais
      www.FlowingZen.com
      (Click here to learn more about me.)

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      • #4
        Which raises a good question - when doing qi gong and the body is clearing out toxins and illnesses, the practitioner may fall sick with the symptoms of the illness, although in this case the sickness is caused by the cleansing.
        If a mentally unsound person who is temporarily sound (by western drugs or lack of stress) practices qi gong and begins to clear the blockages, won't the cleansing cause the person to fall mentally ill and become unsound, and thus unable to continue qi gong practice? For example, some patients can function somewhat normally with western drugs with side-effects aplenty, but behave totally irrationally and illogically when ill.

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        • #5
          Frogular, excellent question which I cannot answer with a definite yes or no. This would then support the answer which Antonius has already given i.e. such a patient should only practice with the supervision of a real master. Failing that a GOOD doctor of Chinese medicine would be the better call.

          Andrew
          Sifu Andrew Barnett
          Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland - www.shaolin-wahnam.ch

          Flowing Health GmbH www.flowing-health.ch (Facebook: www.facebook.com/sifuandrew)
          Healing Sessions with Sifu Andrew Barnett - in Switzerland and internationally
          Heilbehandlungen mit Sifu Andrew Barnett - in der Schweiz und International

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          • #6
            won't the cleansing cause the person to fall mentally ill and become unsound, and thus unable to continue qi gong practice?
            It's a good question. Despite having fought my way out of this conundrum, I don't have a concrete answer.

            Nevertheless, for me, the resurfacing of the illness that occured later was certainly no worse than the illness itself had been for years on end.
            Sifu Anthony Korahais
            www.FlowingZen.com
            (Click here to learn more about me.)

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            • #7
              Sifu mentioned another Master Yap in his "Qigong for Health and Vitality" who was reaserching diseased qi of the mind. Sifu also pointed out that our system cleanses the blood and meridiens but is not the best for the mind and marrow (I am paraphrasing extensively - correct me if I am out of context). Maybe I will ask Sifu in November about the progress of Master Yap's research - he seems quite close to Master Yap.
              百德以孝为先
              Persevere in correct practice

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              • #8
                Master Yap
                As others of Sifu Wong's students I took also the chance to meet him personally: An amazing real Chi Kung healing Master!
                When I met him he was so friendly and open hearted. He took the time to answer questions about all I wanted to know. He told me that his speciality is to get lost spirits from people in a comasituations back into the body. Go and meet him after or during the course if you would like to have this questions directly answered. He's living in Penang.

                he seems quite close to Master Yap
                I think they both have a true, deep respect from eachother. You can feel it Both are well-known for their abilities. Both are real Grandmasters. Both respect eachother

                Warmest regards
                "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                Website: www.enerqi.ch

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                • #9
                  Does anyone remember if Sifu Yap mentions this diseased chi of the mind in his book, "Energy Medicine in CFQ Healing"? I don't remember specifically. It's a dense book, and there's no index!
                  Sifu Anthony Korahais
                  www.FlowingZen.com
                  (Click here to learn more about me.)

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                  • #10
                    Schizophrenia

                    Hey Guys,
                    Just thought I would share a few of my experiences and thoughts with you. I believe that Chi Kung has the potential to cure or at least be of some benefit of the majority of mental illness.

                    As Anthony has said chi kung comprises of three elements form, breath and mind. It is the mind aspect of the practise that could be the down fall process. Someone with mental illness generally has poor concentration and this can be due to a variety of factors emotional, psychotic episodes and even medication.

                    I feel that schizophrenia could be a hard illness to cure and maybe even alleviate and it would have to be done under a very good instructor if not a master.

                    Most medical scienctist dont actually know what causes schizophrenia and
                    there are plenty of theories but no definite proof yet. The process of diagonising can take upto 3/4 presentation in hospital as doctors are relcutant to put a label on someone until they know that person better. Also each presentation is unique as can the illness manifest itself based on that person experiences etc. Here is an example a person can hear what is called third party voices and they tend to take the form of a person that the ill person know eg mother father etc. This is only an example, it is a huge and complex illness and there tends be generic traits that can be throughout all presentatiion off the illness.
                    My point is that the illness can cause a person not be themselves and they get caught in it and their ability to function can drop to that off an infant or they lose concentration etc and as it manifest itself to the individual a chi kung solution maybe have to tailored to that person. hence it would have to be someone very good or a master as my, brothers have said.

                    Their is nothing more heart breaking than seeing a young person mentally ill with a schizophrenic illness.

                    Here is one of my little foibles. They have people teaching Tai Chi and meditation in the hospital and I personally dont think they would know Tai chi or meditation if they fell over it. If it could be taught properly or structured in a way then even helping people relax could increase their mental health. ( Sorry I went on a soap box moment there)

                    One of the unfortuntate thing is that most hospitals are dominated by the Medical Model and other idea and discplines are not looked that favourably looked upon by the medical community

                    Just to let folks know I am a Psychiatric Nurse on an Acute ward and these are some of my experiences

                    Thanks for your time

                    Mark A
                    Sifu Mark Appleford

                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Mental Problems

                      Hello all,

                      in the few of Chinese Medicine mind problems related to the heart. The mind is called in chinese Shen. The mother of Shen is the heart who is also related to the blood. If heart blood is in deficiency(Xin Xue Xu) it will come to depression, if the Xue (blood) is blocked it can /will come to other mental problems. In both examples the Shen has no house to come back and is loosing its roots. This is only a rugh guidline how the Chinese Medicine is dealing with mind problems.
                      May all beings be happy

                      Kai
                      ______________
                      Shaolin Wahnam Germany
                      www.shaolin-wahnam.de
                      www.Cosmos-Chikung.de
                      www.Anicca-Praxis.de

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                      • #12
                        Mark Sihing,
                        That was very informative, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

                        Their is nothing more heart breaking than seeing a young person mentally ill with a schizophrenic illness.
                        Allthough I work with other problems of people: I can imagine why this must be something really sad.

                        If it could be taught properly or structured in a way then even helping people relax could increase their mental health.
                        Sorry to give that very close statement: Maybe that would be something for you in the future. Why: nobody exept of you has more direct experience with this particular problem. Without direct experience with such people, a Chi Kung therapy could be very harmful, that's my opinion.

                        If it could be taught properly or structured in a way then even helping people relax could increase their mental health
                        I believe that!

                        One of the unfortuntate thing is that most hospitals are dominated by the Medical Model and other idea and discplines are not looked that favourably looked upon by the medical community
                        Yeahh, that's really sad. But it's time to have (fight) for a change! If not tomorrow, then the day after tomorrow.

                        this diseased chi of the mind in his book
                        I haven't read the book so far. But I don't remember him talking about menthal diseases when I met him, sadly. That's something I'll do next time.
                        Hes talking lot about getting the spirit back into a person: I don't know a lot about schizophrenia, but that would be different: Ying-yang harmony is always the root of good health. But to go deeper I mean deep spiritualistc:clearing and even do something to let them disappear????

                        Warmest regards

                        Roland
                        "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                        26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                        Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                        Website: www.enerqi.ch

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                        • #13
                          Wow,
                          Thanks Taisihing Kai.
                          "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                          26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                          Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                          Website: www.enerqi.ch

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Meditation

                            Hi Everybody,
                            one more thing that I picked up in Sifu Wongs "The Complete Book of Chinese Medicine" was that some mental problems can be due to the persons problems being too much for them to cope with (as opposed to physical energy blockage). This is because they need to expand their mind so that the problem is not so big anymore and they can deal with it. This of course is acheived through meditation which is the centrepoint of Chi Kung practice.
                            Namo Ami Tuo Fo
                            Philip

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