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  • Internal Force

    This is a continuation of a discussion that Anthony and I had via a-mail. I had asked him if different types of internal force exercises yield different results. He answered yes - example - Tiger Claw develops gripping power and Cosmos Palm develops internal palm strikes.

    What skills do the following do golden bridge and One Finger Shooting Zen develop?

    What is the difference between the skills developed in the exercises of Big Windmill and Pushing Mountain?

    What is the difference between Cosmos Palm and Diamond Palm?

  • #2
    Hi there,


    From my limited understanding:

    Golden bridge - strong arms and solid stances

    One finger shooting Zen (taken straight from Sifu's The Art of Shaolin Kung Fu) : "The art of One Finger Shooting Zen is the fundamental force training technique in my Shaolin school, the Shaolin Wahnam Kung Fu and Chi Kung School"

    Sincere regards

    Marcus



    Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

    Comment


    • #3
      The high-level force training methods in Shaolin Kungfu are amazing in that they are both specialized as well as holistic.

      For example, Golden Bridge ("bridge" means "forearm" in Chinese) is a specialized method to build internal force in the arms. However, if you practice Golden Bridge diligently, it will also develop solid stances and a pearl of energy at dantian. At higher levels, you may also develop Golden Bell.

      However, if Golden Bell was your objective, then it would be more efficient to practice the specific methods for that art.

      One Finger Shooting Zen develops the One Finger Art and the Tiger Claw, but it simultaneously develops versatile force for all hand strikes. It also develops a pearl of energy at dantian.

      Big Windmill and Pushing Mountais are dynamic patterns that can be used for health maintenance. At higher levels, they are also a part of the method for Cosmos Palm.

      Diamond Palm is somewhere between Cosmos Palm and Iron Palm, i.e. a mix of external and internal.

      I like to think of these arts as courses of study (or rather, practice), similar to University courses. The ancient Chinese saying, "three years small success; ten years big success," is worth remembering.
      Sifu Anthony Korahais
      www.FlowingZen.com
      (Click here to learn more about me.)

      Comment


      • #4
        Pushing Mountains are is a dynamic patterns that can be used for health maintenance. At higher levels, it is are also a part of the method for Cosmos Palm.
        At the Intensive Chi Kung course, we were taught 2 ways to perform pushing mountains: one where you direct the chi solely to your arms, and don't do chi flow afterwards, and one where you send little chi to your arms and much chi in the rest of your body. The second one is probably better for overcoming health problems (in my case, fear) but does the first method of performing Pushing Mountains "yield" any other benefits as well? (For instance, is it still good for the kidneys?)

        I submit this question because I probably benefit most from health maintenance (especially working on the kidneys) , but I also like performing the "internal force" Pushing Mountains.

        Roeland

        Comment


        • #5
          While were on the subject

          Hello everyone, I hope all is well! I had something to ask while were on the subject of what results specific techniques yield. What results does Lifting Water, Grasping Sparrows Tail, and the Three Circle stance yield? I understand that when you move you arms down in Lifting Water, that you will you chi to move down to you palms, does Lifting Water strengthen you palms? What do the others do? Thank for anything you could contribute!


          -Jim

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          • #6
            Weight distribution

            Hi folks,

            A quick question - while walking forwards, does your weight only rest on the soles of your feet, or is it distributed around your whole body? If you have hurt your left knee and notice that area more when walking, are you then using your left knee more than your right when you walk? Or if you are carrying a heavy box, does this mean that your legs are no longer supporting your weight since you feel your arms more? If you just use common sense/logic/reason then all three possibilities are perfectly feasible.

            Alternately you could just walk in a safe, natural style paying attention to any injuries you may have or possible hazards along the way (potholes, puddles, sharp stones etc). Later on you may go hillwalking, mountain climbing, running or even hop around on a pogo stick. The same basic skills (e.g. balance & co ordination) are used, but if you go mountain climbing when your knee is already sore, you would not be making a good descision.

            If you think of your practice in the same way, Lifting The Sky is learning to walk. Later on comes jogging, trotting, running, leaping and hopping. If you are training for a marathon or a 100 metre sprint, you still run but with a different objective. The internal arts are the same - different arts will get stronger gains from various patterns but while these patterns will have 'areas of expertise' or specific areas of development, you first need your stable base (good health).

            Back on topic now,

            does the first method of performing Pushing Mountains "yield" any other benefits as well?
            'Flow' or 'build', not 'black' or 'white'. If we use percentages, you may decide to build and so your flow that day would be 60/40 for building. If you decide to flow, you may be 70/30 when flowing. If you decide to be specific, you may be 80/20 build. You only decide whether to flow or to build, but your chi goes where your chi goes. You may think of a specific location (as your example) but unless you also have the skill (learned in person), you may not actually be building or flowing, instead just standing. If you have the skill, you could exert a greater control over the actual percentage, but your chi flows where your chi flows (i.e. sometimes building is flowing, or flowing is building). A 'fringe benefit' of your practice is acceptance of things in every day life, including your practice sessions.

            Comment


            • #7
              Anthony Shihing: Thanks for sharing your profound knowledge. I have learnt a lot about the different aims of the different stances, exercises. It is really amazing!

              What a wonderful answer Darryl Shihing!

              but your chi flows where your chi flows (i.e. sometimes building is flowing, or flowing is building)
              The Chi knows the best what our body needs. We can't force it to do only what we want. Even if we have the skill: if we let go, the Chi goes its own way, for our own protection. So sometimes flowing is more useful, storing comes second, and the other way round. That makes a perfect sence!
              Did I understand that correct?
              Thank you for sharing this.

              respectfully

              Roland
              "From formless to form, from form to formless"

              26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
              Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

              Website: www.enerqi.ch

              Comment


              • #8
                Dear Darryl,

                Thank you for your wonderful explanation! Good health is definitely number 1 on my list. But I find that I sometimes like doing pushing mountains for internal strength,especially when I'm lazy or tired late at night. (Horrible reason, but when I'm tired and the prospect of moving around a lot during chi flow doesn't really appeal to me, I often really feel like doing Pushing Mountains.. )

                Roeland
                Last edited by roland; 27 July 2004, 09:48 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ro(e)lands - thousands of 'em!

                  Hi Roland,

                  You seem to have understood it well enough and since there is a wealth of information in every little comment, I look forwards to sharing and learning many little moments of our happy little lives .

                  Hi Roeland,

                  No problems, I also like practicing Pushing Mountains at night, in fact I enjoy it more than Lifting The Sky. My view is simple - if you feel like doing Pushing Mountains, do Pushing Mountains. If you feel like building, build. In regards to your more specific question (and especially since you have attended the Intensive Course) I would follow your heart in regards to your training . If you find yourself laying awake most of the night (but in an extremely peacefull way) then maybe you could train a bit earlier. In regards to your reasons (fear), building in this way will still help and in fact may be better for you than Lifting The Sky (for a while). Nourishing Kidneys can also help, but pushing those mountains can really get your confidence up there!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dear Darryl,

                    I never lie awake at night anymore! I always had fear (to fail at things-sleeping, for one) andlast year, before the Intensive Course, I had many a
                    night when I couldn't sleep. I feared that I wouldn't fall asleep, so I tried really hard! Unfortunately that didn't work..

                    Since the Intensive Course, when for the first time I tried Sifu's solution - just Smile form the Heart and I felt myself sinking in a wonderful sleep for the first time in months - I have not had any sleepless nights anymore. I just go to bed and I fall asleep. It still amazes me!

                    Nevertheless, I sometimes still fear that I won't sleep, that's why I would like to keep on working on those kidneys.

                    Thank you for your kind replies!

                    Roeland

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      2 ways to Push the Mountains?

                      ********
                      At the Intensive Chi Kung course, we were taught 2 ways to perform pushing mountains: one where you direct the chi solely to your arms, and don't do chi flow afterwards, and one where you send little chi to your arms and much chi in the rest of your body
                      ********

                      Hmmm, this is interesting. It seems that no two Intensive courses are ever the same. At my own course, I remember being taught this way:
                      1) Breathe in, hands in
                      2) Breathe out:
                      a) Just relax the shoulders and go out
                      b) (WIth visualisation) visualise the qi from your "lingtai xue" small of your back, going out to the hands.

                      The exercise is to strengthen the hands but at the same time, qi is also sent to the body and kidneys. Is this consistent with what you learnt, Luolang? Then again, I am the dumb one - I mean, I have forgotten much of what I learnt, and I may missed something.

                      About not doing qi flo afterwards, I thought that every exercise concludes with qi flow and then standing still (thinking of dantian)? I think Sifu mentioned that many of the benefits are lost if we do not spend time in Swaying in the Breeze (qi flow?). Or do you mean qi flow as in Self-Manifeted qi movement (the more vigourous genre)?

                      Speaking of internal force, when comparing Pushing Mountains with say, Zhan Zhuang, would it be correct to say that the internal force generated by the latter is far more powerful? The dynamic patterns are excellent for circulation of qi but I understand such circulation is best for cleansing (of course, without cleansing and being free from blockages, it is hard to gain any internal force in the first place).
                      百德以孝为先
                      Persevere in correct practice

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Somantics

                        Originally posted by Zhang Wuji
                        It seems that no two Intensive courses are ever the same
                        While this can broadly be correct, it can also be incorrect. The actual descriptions from each course participant will be different yet the course structure will be the same. Depending on the questions asked, experiences experienced and other individual variables, each course will cover the same key events and have an individual flavour compared to other courses. I've never done the same course twice (either Regional or Intensive) but I have covered the same material and learned new things every time.

                        every exercise concludes with qi flow and then standing still
                        Since the forum covers many countries and not everyone has English as a first language, it is common for misinterpretation to happen. When you introduce non-dualistic thinking and varying levels of experience in the practitioners and visitors, the possibility of confusion increases greatly.

                        The above quote is correct (and also incorrect) depending on lots and lots of different factors, so I usually refer to moving and being still, or cleansing and building to divide the descriptions into easier categories. It is never one or the other so I wouldn't worry over the exact wording. Since 'Chi flow' can also be used to refer to so many different stages of the practice I don't really bother with the exact words anymore and instead look for the meaning behind them.

                        Back on topic, Pushing Mountains can be done to build (enjoy stillness, little movements) or to flow (enjoy movement, may get very large movements). It can be done purely with the technique from the books, with the added elements learned in the Regional Courses or with the addittional skills covered in the Intensive Courses. All are incorrect and also correct, depending on the individual person and the level of teaching received. The most important factor is what the practitioner is looking to achieve, then how they do it.

                        Personally, I would say that your Stances will contribute far more to your Force than just doing (any) Chi Kung patterns but the two of them in combination are ideal.

                        Roeland,

                        Good luck with those kidneys
                        Last edited by Darryl; 31 July 2004, 06:50 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is this consistent with what you learnt, Luolang?
                          You mean Roland (Luo Lang) or me Roeland (Roland) ? It's probably a bit confusing...

                          The way you described Pushing Mountains is exactly the way we were taught the 'first' Pushing Mountains (the one for internal force). Sifu told us when we were doing it not to move at all..Then he taught a second one, where we just had to send little chi to the hands; focus was on sending chi through the entire body. Then we had to let go completely (just like Self Manifested Chi Flow)

                          I suppose that you can also let go completely after the 'first' Pushing Mountains', or just a little, or...

                          I think Sifu maybe let us do two Pushing Mountains because we were in need of it? I know I needed it!

                          Thanks Darryl! I will carry on Pushing Those Mountains for my poor kidneys . I'll make monsters of them yet...

                          Roeland

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yeahh, this Roland's are indeed a bit confusing
                            I think the dutch say something like ruuland ( roeland) when they speak, we Swiss prefere to say it with oo, so Roland and also with a typical rrrrolling r. I think our Scottish and Irish brothers and sisters have also fun with this rolling r
                            Anyway to avoid any further confusion: I am Luo Lang and I will also put the Luo Lang at the end of my comments....

                            Warmest regards

                            Respectfully

                            Ro.., ahh Luo Lang
                            "From formless to form, from form to formless"

                            26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
                            Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

                            Website: www.enerqi.ch

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Luo Lang!

                              Slightly off topic..Indeed, in Holland we pronounce it like this. (roeland -> ruuland) I spent some time in England, and everyone usually just gave up pronouncing the 'oe' and called me Roland. That's why I used it...

                              I'll change my user's name to Roeland; it seems more logical that you could call yourself Roland!

                              Roeland

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