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  • Dark Dragon, Monkey Steals

    To answer the original question:
    Have you been able to relax...or does one panic because the person is coming at them at a much faster speed?
    I was able to relax, though we were not sparring at full speed as one of our top priorities was safety, and we did not want to make full contact.

    Here is a brief analysis of my sparring:

    I found I was getting hit while initiating with Black Tiger, so I will work on taming, and quick retreating. He was able to use hanging fist as a counter (see photo 2) when I came in. I will work on taming above the elbow.
    I also realized how quickly one needs to be able to retreat after attacking. Footwork!

    When I made the simple switch to White Snake from repeatedly using Black Tiger, this seemed to phase him. (This is not sport training). Basic sequence four, Hang a Golden Star worked nicely. I was also able to use Dark Dragon very effectively a number of times. White Horse Presents Hoof also challenged him a good deal.

    I found also that when I did not initiate right away, waited in poise stance while he moved around, this also disadvantaged him. When he initiated I was able to strike his kicking leg quite readily, several times catching and stealing. (See action below.)

    Special thanks to my son, Julian, who took the pictures.


    With Respect,



    Charles
    Charles David Chalmers
    Brunei Darussalam

    Comment


    • I found I was getting hit while initiating with Black Tiger,
      Are you Tiger or Large Mokey!! Why Black Tiger?? Monkey would chose Phoenix.
      "From formless to form, from form to formless"

      26.08.17-28.08.17: Qi Gong Festival with 6 courses in Bern:
      Qiflow-Triple Stretch Method-12 Sinewmetamorphisis-Bone Marrow Cleansing-Zen Mind in Qi Gong

      Website: www.enerqi.ch

      Comment


      • Indeed, indeed. I change tout de suite:

        More Monkey!

        Still,

        cha
        Charles David Chalmers
        Brunei Darussalam

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Xia View Post

          It is important not to really keep the mouth open - if you get hit in the chin, it will break your jaw more easily, or slam your teeth together - also a chance that you will bite your tongue off - in my opinion.
          Originally posted by Antonius View Post

          The point you make about the jaw is a common one, and once again reveals your lack of experience with internal force. Worrying about the jaw is something that external martial artists do, and it is legitimate. However, we in Shaolin Wahnam train differently.

          We train not to get hit even once. If someone with internal force hits your jaw, it doesn't matter if your mouth is open or closed. To us, it's like saying that we should close our eyelids when someone strikes our eyes. The eyelids, of course, will not protect you. Even if someone doesn't have internal force, the could have a razor blade, or a weapon. Closing the jaw will not help us in these situations.

          In short, we in Shaolin Wahnam don't train in a way that assumes we'll be hit in the jaw. Rather, we train in a way that helps us avoid getting hit in the first place.
          Sorry for resurrecting an old post, but this is something that happened to me once. I posted about it before, but a friend and I were sparring and I had my mouth open a bit and he got a punch around my guard and nearly broke my jaw. I understand the concept of training to not get hit. I haven't trained Shaolin Wahnam martial arts as of yet, but I hope to find a steady wahnam teacher that I can go to weekly. Accidents do tend to happen though so I was just wondering about this.. What happens if after training Wahnam style one gets nailed in the jaw with their mouth open?

          Thanks!

          - David
          Shaolin Wahnam USA

          "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

          Comment


          • Good point

            Hi Neeros,

            Good point,

            I'll confess I haven't given mouth open/closed too much thought in sparring.

            When we say we have the mouth open, it isn't like having it 'gaping open'. In fact I've just looked in the mirror (honestly) and when I train in just looks like my lips are open, but barely.

            Even when I have had to use a mouth guard, I can bite down and still keep my lips open. In my actual experience this is beneficial because we can still use our 'regulated' breathing method with the mouth open, we can't if the mouth is closed.

            Our Schools regulated breathing method helps keep me relaxed under real pressure-For me this is a fact. I've used it (the breathing method) countless times in physical and verbal confrontations, and it works very well. It is impossible to do this method if you mouth is closed.

            I am not saying mouth closed is wrong or bad. It quite obviously works for of thousands of boxers/ kickboxers and countless other fighters. But for me it makes me tense, and I like to be relaxed.

            I should mention that luckily Ive managed to avoid being punched 'directly' in the jaw with my mouth slightly open. I suppose if you really wanted to test it you could have someone punch you in the left side of the jaw with your mouth open and then on the right side with the jaw closed. I reckon both would hurt... alot

            hehehe

            Robin
            "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Robin View Post
              Hi Neeros,

              Good point,

              I'll confess I haven't given mouth open/closed too much thought in sparring.

              When we say we have the mouth open, it isn't like having it 'gaping open'. In fact I've just looked in the mirror (honestly) and when I train in just looks like my lips are open, but barely.

              Even when I have had to use a mouth guard, I can bite down and still keep my lips open. In my actual experience this is beneficial because we can still use our 'regulated' breathing method with the mouth open, we can't if the mouth is closed.

              Our Schools regulated breathing method helps keep me relaxed under real pressure-For me this is a fact. I've used it (the breathing method) countless times in physical and verbal confrontations, and it works very well. It is impossible to do this method if you mouth is closed.

              I am not saying mouth closed is wrong or bad. It quite obviously works for of thousands of boxers/ kickboxers and countless other fighters. But for me it makes me tense, and I like to be relaxed.

              I should mention that luckily Ive managed to avoid being punched 'directly' in the jaw with my mouth slightly open. I suppose if you really wanted to test it you could have someone punch you in the left side of the jaw with your mouth open and then on the right side with the jaw closed. I reckon both would hurt... alot

              hehehe

              Robin
              Hello Sifu!

              Yeah, I really wouldn't wanna be the one to test that!

              The way you explain having the mouth/lips just barely open to allow for the breathing techniques makes a lot more sense now and I can see its effectiveness in either situation. When I read the quoted posts I had visualized having the mouth hanging open like we do in Chi Kung, and it seemed a tad dangerous.

              Thank you!

              - David
              Shaolin Wahnam USA

              "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

              Comment


              • Yeah, painful

                Hi David,

                Yeah, that test would be painful one.

                Yes, I can see how it would'nt make sense if the mouth shape was the same as some of our Chi Kung.

                Sometimes in 'Lifting the Sky' (Chi-Kung pattern) Sifu may advise to have the mouth really quite open and to let a "Arrrrrrr" sound out as you breath out. This is primarly an extra measure to clear blockages.

                The thought of someone having their mouth that wide open in sparring is quite comical, but could work as a distraction I suppose, especially if accompanied with the "Arrrrrr" sound

                As a general rule, Sifu sense have the mouth 'gently open', be it in Chi-Kung or Kung Fu (which includes Taijiquan).

                Robin
                "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

                Comment


                • Hahaha comical indeed, I got a good laugh out of that.

                  By the way I like the posts of the combat applications on your web site. Grasping the sparrows tail is my favorite sequence.

                  Thanks again!

                  - David
                  Shaolin Wahnam USA

                  "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

                  Comment


                  • I might try it

                    Yeah, I might try the "Arrr" technique one day, if accompanied with 'windmill arms' (two arms wildly circling) it could be formidable.

                    Glad you like the apps, even though they were done around a year ago or a bit less, I can see room for improvement with the pictures. Still when you are applying them for the camera (stills) they are not always going to look 'realistic'. I plan to get much more up on the site in the next 6 months, hope you will enjoy it.

                    Robin
                    "The Power of Tai Chi Chuan. com"

                    Comment


                    • I know I am late to this thread, but I agree that the placement of the chin does not matter much from an internal point of view. Although I was taught that the teeth should be touching, having the mouth slightly open or having the chin tucked in toward the neck has little bearing. Actually, tucking in the chin compresses the conception meridian running down the chest, and causes strain to the back of the neck: I would advise against it.

                      I would like to share a very simple way to deal with boxing/street-fighting types: Open the front of their body by deflecting any of their blows to the outside and move straight in.

                      Comment


                      • By the way, those few posts above me were funny lol. Yes, it is very easy to get your jaw broken by a punch, no need to test it out .

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