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Thread: Slow Time Perception Can Be Learned

  1. #11
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    Oh, I know that. I was quoting the quote you quoted, meta-quoting?

    Anyway, the understanding was that you were posting about a fear response slowing down the perception of time. I simply shared my opinion of someone trying to train this purposefully. You did not initialize anything poorly.

    Quote Originally Posted by understanding View Post
    Dear David Siheng,

    Now I see what is the problem.

    You have mistaken a scientific report that I referenced or quoted in whole in the first post (and quite clearly indicating that I might add) for my own writing. The words that you quoted aren't actually mine at all!

    With that fact in mind, I agree then that I initialized the topic poorly because it created unnecessary confusion. The scientific commentary and reference was only meant to give preliminary insight, and not any recommendation for chasing dangerous and exhausting activities.

    With sincere respect,
    Olli
    Shaolin Wahnam USA

  2. #12
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    Dear Shaolin Wahnam Family,

    Thanks to all for contributing to this interesting topic. I still remember a lovely quote that has been attributed to Einstein himself:

    Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.” - Albert Einstein
    From my personal experience, it happened sometimes that everything "seemed" to be slowing down. I remember that I was very relaxed and focused. I also remember that, because I was very focused and relaxed, my mental clarity was crystal clear. It felt like if I was capable of interpreting much more information in much less time. It felt like if I had a super computer capable of processing all the information going on much faster and, therefore, I could "catch" more details out of it.

    There is an interesting analogy that comes to my mind. Slow Motion Cameras. They are capable of recording more photograms than an average camera. With that, they will be able to catch many more images and will loose less information of whatever it is they are recording. So, when reproduced at normal speed, it looks like it's going slower and they also show an incredible amount of details. All they did was just having this "super" capacity of shooting more pictures.

    I believe that I was in a Chi Kung State of Mind when those moments happened. I also remember clearly that I was enjoying what I was doing (for example when playing some sports or doing some sparring in Shaolin Wahnam).

    That reminds me of the 3 Golden Rules that Sifu always mentions: "Don't Worry, Don't Intellectualize and Enjoy the Practice".

    I have experienced that these 3 Golden Rules put me in a "Chi Kung State of Mind" and open the door to marvelous things. I specially remember some of the practices that we had at the Zen Intensive Course in Dublin. I could catch so much information from everywhere. It was like if I was connected to all things and communication among all things flowed into me at the speed of thought. Also, my mental clarity was so sharp that I was able to make really fast decisions with no effort. I could see the right answer straight away.

    This led to an amazing experience I had in the Zhang Fen Course happening just after the Zen Intensive Course. It was quite marvelous. I mentioned about it on a previous thread. I remember the last sparring session in that course quite clearly. Despite I was totally focused on my own sparring I could perfectly see all the other partners sparring in the class. It was like if my eyes could see 360°. It was like watching a movie from the outside. It probably lasted 1 minute or 2 but it seemed to me that we were sparring there for, at least, 15 minutes. As it is frequent with these experiences, words cannot truly explain them.

    I also remember that I wasn't really breathing and that I wasn't getting tired. I believe that, at least in many of those experiences, I was in "Cosmic Breathing" mode.

    I would love to hear your experiences too.

    With Love, Care and Shaolin Salute,

    Santi

  3. #13
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    Interestingly enough, slowed down perceptions have not been something that I've really experienced in my own martial arts practice. I've heard several personal accounts of people that have been able to attain such a feat, but such an experience seems to be beyond my own reckoning. More often than not, I tend to perceive my own speed, rather than experiencing other people at things slower than I am; if I know I am moving quickly, I perceive myself as moving quickly, sometimes not bring able to follow my own movements. Something that, for me, dates back to my fencing days in high school. In those days, raw speed as well as timing were the keystone skills to victory. If you moved faster than your opponents could respond, well, that was really it. This could be, however, the function of the fact that I don't actually use very fine eyesight and sparring however. More often than not I actually use my hearing and sensing skills because for most of my life, my eyesight has been rather poor. It certainly doesn't help that many of my higher-level sparring partners have been experts at misdirection, which very often led me to distrust whatever my eyes were telling me, haha! Very often, it seems that the only things I could trust were my hearing, my sense of touch, and my ability to sense my opponents intent, rather than my eyes. It always struck me as funny that some of the friendliest, most honest people I knew were excellent liars in combat.

    This carried over through most of my martial arts practice, though in the past couple years, I realize that I could offset the greater speed of some of my own opponents by essentially forcing them to slow down, especially through the application of bridging skills. This wasn't necessarily the speeding up of my own perceptions, however, but rather slowing down the overall speed of the sparring or combat exchange. It can be rather difficult to throw speedy punches when your opponent is sticking to your forearms and preventing from accelerating beyond a snail's crawl, haha.

    So yeah, for better or worse, I've had rather mundane experiences in sparring, unless you count some of the marvelous counters that my skillful opponents have been kind enough to inflict upon me. I haven't exactly gone chasing after those experiences, however; if they do crop up at some point, I'll let you know.

    That said, the majority of my expanded perception experiences in the past occurred during my training of Baguazhang. The Double Palm Change, in particular, seemed to have a fair amount to do with it for whatever reason. Harkening back to my experiences above with not trusting my eyes, something Sifu mentioned a few years ago did offer me some consolation regarding sensing skills and eyesight; we need not always look at our opponent, "but sense him with our all-pervading mind." http://www.shaolin.org/general-2/bag...uazhang01.html

    That isn't to say that I haven't eaten my fair number of fists to the face, organ seeking kicks, qin na that brought me to the floor, or taken tumbles hard enough to rattle my brains, though. The fundamental ability to actually fight, especially with your kung fu, should come first. Sensing an attack coming sometimes only means that you can see your own inevitable defeat coming that much earlier.
    I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelS View Post


    But an experienced 'oppenent' may not perceive this as a thread as such, he will stay calm and relaxed (and maybe smile about it). He may not let 'the other' allow to determine his 'moves', will not 'react' (training: 'do as if your opponent is an imaginary oppenent': means also he does not determine what you are doing).


    The 'thread' can be even way bigger when it is not perceived as a thread by an opponent. For example take the story of how Sichangung Ho Fatt Nam did fight succesfully against the Muai Thai coming to their Kwoon: he made 'weak moves' pretending to be 'not too skilled an opponent', when the Muai Thai felt confident enough, Sichangung made feint move that looked like an invitation to the Muai Thai to 'deliver his coup de grace, not anticipating that Sichangung exactly wanted him to get there to 'defent' using the Muai Thai's own momentum
    Hey Michael!

    In my experience with fighting so far, it is HARD to stay relaxed and calm in a direct confrontation. Even after several years of training. This is probably due to a relative lack of real fighting experience since I began my Kung fu journey, something I am now seeking to correct. It is important to keep some level of equilibrium so we CAN react and flow with our opponents actions and intentions. Our Qigong, Zen, sparring methodology, and sensitivity training are excellent for this.

    Sitaigung Ho Fatt Nam is at such a high level of Mind Mastery that I can’t comprehend yet, hopefully one day. Even in his student days such as the story you mentioned he was already a very accomplished and high level martial artist with many real fights under his belt. Real fighting experience is something that is required I do believe.

    Take care!

    Quote Originally Posted by sancrica View Post
    Dear Shaolin Wahnam Family,

    Thanks to all for contributing to this interesting topic. I still remember a lovely quote that has been attributed to Einstein himself:



    From my personal experience, it happened sometimes that everything "seemed" to be slowing down. I remember that I was very relaxed and focused. I also remember that, because I was very focused and relaxed, my mental clarity was crystal clear. It felt like if I was capable of interpreting much more information in much less time. It felt like if I had a super computer capable of processing all the information going on much faster and, therefore, I could "catch" more details out of it.

    There is an interesting analogy that comes to my mind. Slow Motion Cameras. They are capable of recording more photograms than an average camera. With that, they will be able to catch many more images and will loose less information of whatever it is they are recording. So, when reproduced at normal speed, it looks like it's going slower and they also show an incredible amount of details. All they did was just having this "super" capacity of shooting more pictures.

    I believe that I was in a Chi Kung State of Mind when those moments happened. I also remember clearly that I was enjoying what I was doing (for example when playing some sports or doing some sparring in Shaolin Wahnam).

    That reminds me of the 3 Golden Rules that Sifu always mentions: "Don't Worry, Don't Intellectualize and Enjoy the Practice".

    I have experienced that these 3 Golden Rules put me in a "Chi Kung State of Mind" and open the door to marvelous things. I specially remember some of the practices that we had at the Zen Intensive Course in Dublin. I could catch so much information from everywhere. It was like if I was connected to all things and communication among all things flowed into me at the speed of thought. Also, my mental clarity was so sharp that I was able to make really fast decisions with no effort. I could see the right answer straight away.

    This led to an amazing experience I had in the Zhang Fen Course happening just after the Zen Intensive Course. It was quite marvelous. I mentioned about it on a previous thread. I remember the last sparring session in that course quite clearly. Despite I was totally focused on my own sparring I could perfectly see all the other partners sparring in the class. It was like if my eyes could see 360°. It was like watching a movie from the outside. It probably lasted 1 minute or 2 but it seemed to me that we were sparring there for, at least, 15 minutes. As it is frequent with these experiences, words cannot truly explain them.

    I also remember that I wasn't really breathing and that I wasn't getting tired. I believe that, at least in many of those experiences, I was in "Cosmic Breathing" mode.

    I would love to hear your experiences too.

    With Love, Care and Shaolin Salute,

    Santi
    Wow Santi! Awesome experiences, thanks for sharing!
    Shaolin Wahnam USA

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick_Chu View Post
    Interestingly enough, slowed down perceptions have not been something that I've really experienced in my own martial arts practice. I've heard several personal accounts of people that have been able to attain such a feat, but such an experience seems to be beyond my own reckoning. More often than not, I tend to perceive my own speed, rather than experiencing other people at things slower than I am; if I know I am moving quickly, I perceive myself as moving quickly, sometimes not bring able to follow my own movements. Something that, for me, dates back to my fencing days in high school. In those days, raw speed as well as timing were the keystone skills to victory. If you moved faster than your opponents could respond, well, that was really it. This could be, however, the function of the fact that I don't actually use very fine eyesight and sparring however. More often than not I actually use my hearing and sensing skills because for most of my life, my eyesight has been rather poor. It certainly doesn't help that many of my higher-level sparring partners have been experts at misdirection, which very often led me to distrust whatever my eyes were telling me, haha! Very often, it seems that the only things I could trust were my hearing, my sense of touch, and my ability to sense my opponents intent, rather than my eyes. It always struck me as funny that some of the friendliest, most honest people I knew were excellent liars in combat.
    I know what you mean, having poor eyesight myself. I actually do better when I take my glasses off and stop trying to perceive with my eyes. Reacting based on sensitivity can leave me feeling a bit flabbergasted as well sometimes. "Did I really just move that fast? I didn't see myself move!"

    This is a good time to plug the eight shaolin eye exercises. I've been doing them at the urge of Sigung, especially counting leaves (I still work in an urban forest camp,) they are really awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick_Chu View Post
    This carried over through most of my martial arts practice, though in the past couple years, I realize that I could offset the greater speed of some of my own opponents by essentially forcing them to slow down, especially through the application of bridging skills. This wasn't necessarily the speeding up of my own perceptions, however, but rather slowing down the overall speed of the sparring or combat exchange. It can be rather difficult to throw speedy punches when your opponent is sticking to your forearms and preventing from accelerating beyond a snail's crawl, haha.

    So yeah, for better or worse, I've had rather mundane experiences in sparring, unless you count some of the marvelous counters that my skillful opponents have been kind enough to inflict upon me. I haven't exactly gone chasing after those experiences, however; if they do crop up at some point, I'll let you know.

    That said, the majority of my expanded perception experiences in the past occurred during my training of Baguazhang. The Double Palm Change, in particular, seemed to have a fair amount to do with it for whatever reason. Harkening back to my experiences above with not trusting my eyes, something Sifu mentioned a few years ago did offer me some consolation regarding sensing skills and eyesight; we need not always look at our opponent, "but sense him with our all-pervading mind." http://www.shaolin.org/general-2/bag...uazhang01.html
    "Annoying arms"(tm) is a brilliant skill for controlling the pace of combat, taming hands, circling hands, and threading hands work wonders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick_Chu View Post
    That isn't to say that I haven't eaten my fair number of fists to the face, organ seeking kicks, qin na that brought me to the floor, or taken tumbles hard enough to rattle my brains, though. The fundamental ability to actually fight, especially with your kung fu, should come first. Sensing an attack coming sometimes only means that you can see your own inevitable defeat coming that much earlier.
    Definitely.
    Shaolin Wahnam USA

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by everyone thus far
    (cool and informative stuff)
    Completely agree with the notion of staying relaxed and calm. Against folks who may lack as much experience as I do, or at the very least aren't able to spar while relaxed, it's very easy for me to conserve my own energy and remain calm (which feeds directly into conserving my own energy, which keeps me calm, which gives me more energy, which keeps me calm...you get where I'm going with this). Against folks with significant skills and force, though, suddenly the equation of "me versus the opponent" turns into "me versus my feelings of inadequacy + the opponent's own legitimate skills." The calm goes crashing right out of the window.

    Luckily, we don't have to just jump right into the sparring ring (or squared circle, or octagon, or nine palace formation, or whatever other geometric formation of doom) without preparation; we have the seeds of calm planted with our very first lesson of relaxing, first while standing upright, then while in a stance, then while striking, and later on remaining calm even after you've been picked up and hurled ten feet through the air as your inner ear screams to you, "Wait, what happened to gravity?!" On a side note, our qigong is very, very good for healing acute injuries.

    Even better, Sifu has taught, not only in the past, but also in recent times, courses that emphasized exactly what you need to fight, and fight very well, at that. The fact that Sifu taught a very cool selective set just last year at the fundamentals course was just the cherry on the top. Easy to stay calm (and likewise move, fight, and perceive at a higher level) when you have an algorithm to follow and a tried and true training method that aims to give you exactly those skills.

    On a side note, the underlying skills of calm and energy flow which tie together all of our arts and inform our abilities in health, combat, and spiritual cultivation give us a wonderful tool to tackle any task or goal. In fact, I'm sure that once the seeds are planted, one who practices the way they've been taught will be able to work on many goals simultaneously, even at an unconscious level. It's how members of our school can develop protective force without specific Golden Bell exercises, mental focus without having to pursue sitting meditation, the Small Universe without having to learn a handful (lung-ful? belly-ful?) of breathing methods, and so forth. I've heard stories of even crazier abilities unlocked as well. All from just pursuing our foundational skills and techniques from Lifting the Sky, Horse Riding stance, One Finger Shooting Zen, and the combat sequences. Sure, specific techniques for specific skills exist, but likewise, specific skills can also manifest from general training.

    I haven't been to too many courses with Sifu, but having watched more Shaolin Wahnam course videos than most people watch television or movies, I've picked up here and there where Sifu or someone else mentions briefly a very important principle for some other art that is not being explicitly taught at that course. To use a mildly distant example, at Baguazhang in 2012, Sifu shared some "extras" about Dragon Strength as well as Xingyiquan. At Cosmos Palm, as one might expect, he shared some important principles about Striking a Buffalo Behind a Hill, but unexpectedly also shared some information about the Eighteen Lohan Hands as well as Cotton Palm.

    I guess what I'm getting at here is that in Shaolin Wahnam, there's more than meets the eye.

    And now if you'll excuse me, I should probably leave before everyone starts throwing rotten tomatoes at me.
    I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

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