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Thread: How true is that genuine chi kung is rare today?

  1. #1
    Mark CH is offline Sifu Mark Hartnett - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam Ireland
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    How true is that genuine chi kung is rare today?

    Dear Wahnam Family

    So my question "How true is that genuine chi kung is rare today?"

    Please feel free to comment on your experiences.

    Personally before I met Sifu, I was doing Tai Chi (as this is the name it was advertised as) in a local town. I will not mention the name of the school or the teacher as I believe the teacher was a very kind person and was genuinely helping people. We used to do Chi Kung exercises at the start of each Tai Chi class. The exercises were very similar to some of the 18 Lohan Hands that we do with Sifu. We did the exercises very gently and we worked gently on flow. After a few weeks the instructor told us he had one dodgy knee and one bad knee. Here I realised that something did not seem right; why would someone complain about a physical pain and be teaching a healing art. So I told myself shut up and follow the instructor.

    After a few months I came across Sifu and I did a Chi Kung weekend with him in Ireland. The first class was Generating Energy Flow. My first impression when we did Lifting the Sky was "WOW what is going here, people were moving around with their eyes closed and everyone is smiling". After the weekend it hit me in the face that this Chi Kung is one million years away from the Chi Kung I did before. You may ask why but the reason is simple, I felt relaxed, I felt a pins and needles sensation in my fingers, I felt brighter but most important I saw this Master Wong guy do a tiger claw in the Chi Kung class that looked like he could literally shake the room with his hand. I said to myself WOW MY GOD, this is what I have been looking for. It was more than just a gentle exercise that I did before. It was about breathing, relaxing, smiling and enjoying a Chi Flow. I felt so blessed. After this I received more and more benefits each time I practise. One of the important benefits that I still enjoy and get better at is Letting Go.

    I guess it was so normal to feel these benefits that I never received from any Tai Chi or Chi Kung I did before. And yes I did take them for granted. But it was only recently that it struck me again in one of my Chi Kung classes that I teach. A person joined the class who has been doing Chi Kung with another school for many years with a well known Master. I asked before the class did she know what Chi Flow was, which she replied "oh yes of course". After the class, she told me sorry I have never seen this thing you call Chi Flow, ever. After a few classes she began to sway from side to side and more importantly she could smile from the heart. You could see her brighten and flow and enjoy the training. It is so wonderful to be able to teach this art to many people now and see them all smile from the heart and be healthy.

    So finally its important to ask yourself are you still sick? are you still stressed and angry? For me, no I feel wonderful in every sense from the Chi Kung that Sifu thought me and continues to teach me. Is it rare that people who practise an energy art like Chi Kung are free from sickness, pain, anger and worry? I believe yes. And why so? its simple, they do not practise genuine Chi Kung.

    I look forward to hearing many more stories from people.

    Happy training everyone

    Best wishes
    Mark

  2. #2
    Martin Do's Avatar
    Martin Do is offline Martin Do - Assistant Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam England (2009)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark CH View Post
    Dear Wahnam Family

    So my question "How true is that genuine chi kung is rare today?"
    Hey Sisook ,

    I don’t keep myself informed on the chi kung community or healing community with what is popular, what is not, what works, what doesn’t work etc. But a brief survey of my surrounding would lead to the conclusion that genuine chi kung is rare today, as it was rare in the past, but for different reasons I think.

    The building I work in has around 150 employees. On my floor there are about 35 people and I know them quite well. Of these 35 people none of them practice Chi Kung as far as I know. I know most but not all of the other people who works on the other floors and none of them to my knowledge practices any form of chi kung let alone genuine chi kung.

    The most common forms of practice from my colleagues as far as I know, to gain health and vitality are:

    Going to the gym
    Running
    Sports activities
    Dieting

    To a much lesser extent, Yoga and Palate are also practiced for better health.

    It is a bit baffling as to why genuine chi kung is not more widely practiced. It wouldn’t be because it’s hard to find genuine Chi Kung because if I googled “genuine chi kung”, Shaolin Wahnam would be one of the first few sites to pop up on the search. I suspect laziness and the required diligence of practicing on your own every day has something to do with it.

    Best wishes

    Martin

  3. #3
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    Dear Mark Sissokgung,

    thank you for the thread and sharing your experiences.

    I'm not sure whether genuine Chi Gung was ever 'not rare'...and I don't really know much about other 'Energy Arts', if there would be 'genuine Yoga' as energy art then the situation there may be the same, that it's rare (guess most do Yoga as physical exercises plus breathing techniques).

    Maybe this is also so in other fields, so for example people say here it's difficult to find a good lawyer (or tax advisor, or doctor)...

    Guess that in many parts of the world including the 'Western world' there was no Chi Gung or Yoga at all up until 50 years ago or not even 50 years and since then it may have drawn people with a certain background, that were interested either culturally in Asian arts or 'spiritual practices', Martial Artists, Healing Practitioners or people looking for alternative healing methods, but may still not have gained a 'broad reach'.

    Personally, I know only one person here outside of our school practising Chi Gung, and 'it' generates an energy flow, but nothing compared to ours.
    Had went to three other Kung Fu schools, from my overview all in all it's only a very small percentage of the population still that practises any kind of Kung Fu, Tai Chi Chuan or Chi Gung, whether it may be called genuine or not.

    Other than this, I do not have an overview over the 'Chi Gung scene or community' in order to know or say anything about the quality of their arts (or whether they even view it as 'energy art'). On of the kung fu schools I've went to does have Chi Gung as part of their Kung Fu, but they start with it at a later level (not beginner's I've trained on), my observation is they do have some internal force, but it's not comparable to our practise and results).

    But I can hardly imagine, when 'googling' 'Chi Gung Switzerland', that from quite some courses there with organizers as health practitioners organizations etc. one could expect anything near Shaolin Cosmos Chi Gung or learning from Sitaigung and/or our Instructors.

    Can't say, how the situation in Asian countries is, where Chi Gung has 'cultural roots'.

    Where you touch the theme of 'living up to our own standards' there I agree basically, just suppose that there are core skills and benefits and some others and people also here have different 'backgrounds' and different things they 'work on', different living circumstances etc. resulting in different results and timelines.

    Personally, I was already not sick and got rarely sick when starting Chi Gung or 'worked on emotional detachement', my guess is after two years, that there are more determining factors as only chi flow.

    I may be wrong, but believe that I've met somebody advanced in our school that told me of, say, an old physical health problem still partly limiting practise; that is during 'standard practice' as probably started with early on; I've seen this person doing and really enjoying 'non standard practise' and my impression was, that the person was not hindered at all and completely unaware of the 'old issue'...some may even have healed themselves, just may hang on to it's memory in 'usual situations'; as said, can't say for sure.

    Thank you,
    With Shaolin Salute,
    Michael

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    How good can it get?

    Dear Mark,


    Sisookgung,


    there's maybe room for another post on this thread, so may I add something more:


    '...it's important to ask yourself are you still sick?' you wrote,


    this is were I cannot agree. You may mean a 'reality check', and I'd be also fond of it.


    But the question is the wrong question, as we are a big part of our reality and co-create it. So, if you do a 'reality check', then ask for example:


    'How much better do I already feel?' Aaahh...


    'How much calmer, 'relaxder', joyfuller am I already?' Aaahh...


    See, year's ago I've found myself in a strange situation and somebody said I may be sort of a hypochondriac. Now, later, but before I've started Chi Gung I've 'smashed the metal escalator door' on my finger and it was swallen and bloody beneath the nail. As I've had promised to help with gardening and farm work on the weekend I was not sure whether to see a doctor. But my health insurance does have a medical service line and I called them. The lady asked what has happened and how the condition of the finger is, which did 'not please her...


    ...so I asked her: 'What would be a good sign?'


    'A good sign? she replied, 'well...if you could feel and sense the finger, that would be good, and as soon as she said it the whole finger started 'pulsing', she added 'if you could feel the blood stream in the finger, this would also be good' and in this moment the blood rushed warmly through my finger. I thanked her, did'nt see he doctor and helped with garden and farm work.


    Once you know, how this 'hypocontriac' thing works, you can use it the way round, wence you focus on what would be good.


    'NLP's Richard Bandler' would comment on people in the western world thinking too much, thinking about themselves, asking themselves questions, the wrong questions, he said sort of 'If you really like to ask yourself a question, the only is:


    'How good can it get?''.


    With Shaolin Salute,
    Michael

  5. #5
    Mark CH is offline Sifu Mark Hartnett - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam Ireland
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Do View Post
    Hey Sisook ,

    I don’t keep myself informed on the chi kung community or healing community with what is popular, what is not, what works, what doesn’t work etc. But a brief survey of my surrounding would lead to the conclusion that genuine chi kung is rare today, as it was rare in the past, but for different reasons I think.

    The building I work in has around 150 employees. On my floor there are about 35 people and I know them quite well. Of these 35 people none of them practice Chi Kung as far as I know. I know most but not all of the other people who works on the other floors and none of them to my knowledge practices any form of chi kung let alone genuine chi kung.

    The most common forms of practice from my colleagues as far as I know, to gain health and vitality are:

    Going to the gym
    Running
    Sports activities
    Dieting

    To a much lesser extent, Yoga and Palate are also practiced for better health.

    It is a bit baffling as to why genuine chi kung is not more widely practiced. It wouldn’t be because it’s hard to find genuine Chi Kung because if I googled “genuine chi kung”, Shaolin Wahnam would be one of the first few sites to pop up on the search. I suspect laziness and the required diligence of practicing on your own every day has something to do with it.

    Best wishes

    Martin
    Dear Martin

    Thank you for the reply.

    Yes I agree that Chi Kung awareness in general is rare. I used to work in a scientific research building that has 300 employees and when I used to mention Chi Kung people had no idea what I was talking about. I do think people are getting more aware of meditation and mindfulness. But my original question and I am sorry if maybe I wrote it wrong was "for everyone that practises Chi Kung, how many people actually practise genuine Chi Kung ? and how many people actually fell and experience the benefits?"

    But coming back to your original point, maybe a good place to start would be to increase the awareness of Chi Kung and that such a healing art is out there for people.

    Many blessings to you Martin as always.

    Best wishes
    Mark

  6. #6
    Mark CH is offline Sifu Mark Hartnett - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam Ireland
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelS View Post
    Dear Mark,


    Sisookgung,


    there's maybe room for another post on this thread, so may I add something more:


    '...it's important to ask yourself are you still sick?' you wrote,


    this is were I cannot agree. You may mean a 'reality check', and I'd be also fond of it.


    But the question is the wrong question, as we are a big part of our reality and co-create it. So, if you do a 'reality check', then ask for example:


    'How much better do I already feel?' Aaahh...


    'How much calmer, 'relaxder', joyfuller am I already?' Aaahh...


    See, year's ago I've found myself in a strange situation and somebody said I may be sort of a hypochondriac. Now, later, but before I've started Chi Gung I've 'smashed the metal escalator door' on my finger and it was swallen and bloody beneath the nail. As I've had promised to help with gardening and farm work on the weekend I was not sure whether to see a doctor. But my health insurance does have a medical service line and I called them. The lady asked what has happened and how the condition of the finger is, which did 'not please her...


    ...so I asked her: 'What would be a good sign?'


    'A good sign? she replied, 'well...if you could feel and sense the finger, that would be good, and as soon as she said it the whole finger started 'pulsing', she added 'if you could feel the blood stream in the finger, this would also be good' and in this moment the blood rushed warmly through my finger. I thanked her, did'nt see he doctor and helped with garden and farm work.


    Once you know, how this 'hypocontriac' thing works, you can use it the way round, wence you focus on what would be good.


    'NLP's Richard Bandler' would comment on people in the western world thinking too much, thinking about themselves, asking themselves questions, the wrong questions, he said sort of 'If you really like to ask yourself a question, the only is:


    'How good can it get?''.


    With Shaolin Salute,
    Michael
    Dear Michael

    Thank you for posting. I hope your finger is still well

    But see no question is the wrong question, all questions are important and more importantly understanding the question is the key to getting a solution And following on from you, then maybe another important question would be to ask "Have you ever heard of Chi Kung?"

    And yes we in the west think too much but us here in Shaolin Wahnam are so lucky. We simply just practise what we teach "Smile From The Heart and Let Go"

    Best wishes to you
    Mark

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    Dear Mark Sissokgung,


    thank you for your reply. I'm not sure, wether you've seen my first post also, you may have answered from mail notification and just seen my second mail, which was a bit polemical in tone and tried to be a bit funny, not necessarily succeding; also it was in addition to my first post.


    So, even though I used 'wrong question' my intention was to maybe broaden the picture. My impression was, you did not just referr to people outside of our school with your questions but also to schoolmembers.


    Now, for other types of Chi Gung it seems clear (to us) that they cannot get the benefits of the art when theres no or not enough chi flow generation.


    But if people in our school after sufficient time of practise still 'are sick' or 'get emotional (angry etc..)' the case seems different as they will generate enough chi flow and get it's benefits.


    A good illustration what I tried to say may be the story Sitaigung tells of how he decided to always charge a fee for healings (from my memory):


    A woman could not move her arm at all, he cleared to blockage to allow for chi flow and she could move her arm again right then and there. But she just looked in disbelief, went back to her waiting relatives and took on her bandages again. which would cause the blockage again.


    So, despite 'all went well' 'within the chi gung paradigm' there was more to it.


    Sitaigung 'addresses' this - from my recollection and limited understanding - as follwows:


    -He now requieres a fee (people in our world are more willing to agree to be healed and change their patterns/habits when they pay for the healing)
    -He resonates as much confidence and trust as possible during the healing
    -He opens the clients mind for the possibility and acceptance of healing - even in case of so called incurable diseases - in telling them about 'western paradigm'/'chi gung paradigm', 'oldest medical system kept people in china healthy', examples of others that got healed etc.
    -He uses momentum/surprise in the situation to give them commands like 'stand up', 'through your crutches away' etc. in order to get them to 'get over their old patterns/habits'
    -He avoids to be 'too kind to people' that are used to getting help from others and tells them to do all necessary things themselves


    So, in my words, I'd say that apart from the healing with chi flow, it's helpful that somebody 'agrees to be healed/healthy', 'get's aware of the healing', trusts/has confidence, does not go back to old patterns/habits (but acts as healthy), does not ask for not necessary help anymore.


    So, if people in our school may still 'be sick', it can be that they healed themselves already, but are not aware in 'old situations' (example in my first post) or something else 'apart from ch flow'. But if they are healed but not aware of it, if they would ask themselves 'whether they are still sick' they may not see the 'whole picture'.


    Also, regarding 'getting still angry etc.': I've read out of your mail, that you decided to 'work on it ', als in 'every-day-life', not just during 10 mins of Chi Gung practice, thank you again for sharing your 'process'/experiences'. But others, even in our school, may not do so specifically ('one could do Lifting the Sky for years without working on 'emotions' specifically and also 'hold on to them in typical situations'). So, some may need to decide to follow your example in order to get the same results; canot say whether they would get there somehow anyway, but guess not in the same timeline.


    Thank you very much,
    With Shaolin Salute,
    Michael

  8. #8
    Mark CH is offline Sifu Mark Hartnett - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam Ireland
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelS View Post

    So, even though I used 'wrong question' my intention was to maybe broaden the picture. My impression was, you did not just referr to people outside of our school with your questions but also to schoolmembers.


    Now, for other types of Chi Gung it seems clear (to us) that they cannot get the benefits of the art when theres no or not enough chi flow generation.


    Also, regarding 'getting still angry etc.': I've read out of your mail, that you decided to 'work on it ', als in 'every-day-life', not just during 10 mins of Chi Gung practice, thank you again for sharing your 'process'/experiences'. But others, even in our school, may not do so specifically ('one could do Lifting the Sky for years without working on 'emotions' specifically and also 'hold on to them in typical situations'). So, some may need to decide to follow your example in order to get the same results; canot say whether they would get there somehow anyway, but guess not in the same timeline.
    Hi Michael

    To answer each of the lines in this post

    1. Yes correct I was referring to everyone both in Shaolin Wahnam and not.

    2. Yes correct. SO genuine Chi Kung is rare

    3. I don't know where you saw I said "work on it"?

    Also you mention 'one could do Lifting the Sky for years without working on 'emotions' specifically and also 'hold on to them in typical situations'. In our Chi Kung we Smile From the Heart and Let Go, the Chi does the work for us and it goes where it is needed most. One does not need to work on emotions specifically

    Best wishes
    Mark

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