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With so many arts in the school, what are you working on?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
    Example: opponent is throwing a step-in cross after his initial jab, you read the lightness of the jab and see his feet start to change; you don't try to swing at the cross or catch it on an elbow (could though), you step-off at an angle and drive that sweet hook or liver shot deeeeeeep into him as the cross hits the air that used to be occupied by you. You don;t have to beat the timing, or try to get off before he does, just execute the END first. You want to end up with your fist deep in enemy territory, ideally organs and bowels; so rather than cut-off the strike, which requires a lot more practice, get used to cutting off the entire exchange at* the opening.
    Yes, I mean there's more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes, or at least there are multiple opinions on how to do it! For example there's a widely renowned "reality based" martial arts instructor in the UK called Geoff Thompson who reckons that neither parrying, moving the head, blocking, footwork or anything else is quick enough to rely upon in a streetfight because action is quicker than reaction and that's that according to him, so his view is the only thing that works is to hit first, so that its your action and the other guys reaction. But then, as well as martial artists, I think Floyd Mayweather and lots of boxing coaches would disagree.

    For me, the thing I have the most experience in at full speed full contact sparring is boxing. I did used to use footwork a lot, but ever since switching clubs/coaches and learning how to parry and use my hands properly, I've relied on that since, I find it suits me better. Within that, when boxing at least, and I haven't worked all this enough in kungfu yet, but I did indeed find that "intercepting" as you say was difficult and by that I simply mean parrying, meaning letting the left jab for instance go slightly past your right hand and then palming it slightly downwards or to the left, connecting with it on the side of the fist or the wrist. That sometimes worked, but what worked for me better was "catching" the punch ie meeting the knuckles part of their glove more or less flat against my palm. I know its force against force. I know that given the choice between catching and parrying, it is better to parry if you can, but given the choice between missing the parry then getting punched in the face, or catching it, I would prefer to catch it!

    But I think the way we use guard hands in our kungfu, and in other kungfu styles, is more suited to parrying and intercepting than the typical boxing stance is, so I don't worry too much about that.

    What I say above though is too geared towards boxing. I think in Muay Thai, MMA/Wrestling/Jujitsu and Kungfu, it is not so wise to just stand your ground or come forward all the time like many boxers do, it seems to me many of the possible attacks in those disciplines require movement to avoid, so I think my strategy is mainly suited to boxers and typical streetfighters.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Kristian S. View Post
      Using kung fu for this has been very advantageous in past when encountering heavily loaded-up strikes; for subtle, faster jabs and combinations, what has helped and saved me more than ANYTHING so far has been my stance and structure, no question. SOOOOOOO many boxers and quite a huge number of muay thai exponents need that style of mechanical, muscular "propulsion" movement to engage or disengage; with a solid stance, you don;t need to burst, or plant, or explode; you can deliver and take whatever at all times and all ranges. Once in close, where I like to be in boxing to smother strikes, kill their range power, and start dropping body shots or peeling and pressing their hands for head hooks, my stance and structure are the only things that will let me generate the necessary power, struggle-force to smother, and also integrity to not get pushed away or fold from incoming hits that get through.
      Yes I also think a huge advantage a person practising internal kungfu has, is that their strikes can just "shoot" out from the dantien, whereas boxers etc have to "throw" theirs. I know great boxers such as James Toney can still do so very fast and get great leverage in seemingly small movements and distances, but not everyone can.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
        Hi David, probably it started because the first time through, I couldn't see how to use anything in the basic sequences against a boxer, like when I tried black tiger, fierce tiger or precious duck, I just got hit myself even when it was just someone playing a boxer let alone a real boxer, and I never saw anyone else using them either at full speed against a boxer at that point.

        However in hindsight, a lot of that was probably to do with incorrect covering/opening/use of guard hand for one thing.

        And on the other thread I keep mentioning, Matt Fenton generously shared a sequence he practises composed from the basic sequences, that I took on in part, and have since managed to use with some moderate success against a boxer. So the upshot is, I should take a project to revisit the basic sequences with those insights. It's one of a few things I would plan to do when my work/life balance shifts a bit more toward life in future hopefully!
        Hey DB,

        In my experience sparring a bit here and there to confirm and progress in my practice I've found that the trick to making kung fu work that you shouldn't need to "Make" it work. With sufficient repetition of stances/footwork, strikes, bridging, applications, and methodological training of spontaneity it is just ingrained into your body, it is natural, so you just fight smart and the kung fu comes out as it is supposed to -- in a way that matches the situation. I truly believe that anyone with dedication and courage can accomplish this.

        I've been watching some boxing lately, a lot of the striking techniques we use are present if a bit mechanically different, and used without bridging and with boxing footwork. Fighting is fighting, methods may differ, but it seems as though the biggest commonality is that successful fighters are the ones that train sufficiently till they can move and attack and defend naturally. Kung fu is no different in this respect.

        Hope this helps, it's helping me.
        Shaolin Wahnam USA

        "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

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        • #34
          I think that is true so long as it is ingrained and tested under pressure the same way boxers do.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Martin Do View Post
            Some people just have far too much time on their hands
            Yeah some people huh

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            • #36
              Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
              I think that is true so long as it is ingrained and tested under pressure the same way boxers do.
              Yup. It's up to each of us to do that. No one will ingrain the basics for us, it takes a lot of sweat, hard work, and dedication. Sparring a boxer or a muay thai person right after learning the basics doesn't give any time to ingrain. I tried that too back when I started, it didn't work out so well for me either.
              Shaolin Wahnam USA

              "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

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              • #37
                I know this thread is about "What are you working on" but here is one thing I would like to work on in future too, I think we have a couple of pages like this but saw this one at the top of Sifu's website a couple of days ago, about Shaolin groundfighting:

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Frederick_Chu View Post
                  Welcome to the party, Martin siheng! How has the practice been treating you lately?
                  Hi Frederick,

                  Training has been very kind to me thank you and I am enjoying it. I started going through some old drills again in recent weeks and am pleasantly surprised how quickly things falls back into place.

                  This is an interesting and lively thread. Love the enthusiasm shown for Shaolin Kung Fu here and have enjoyed reading the posts even if I can’t picture in my head the descriptions of moves a lot of times . Good stuff.

                  Best wishes everyone

                  Martin

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                  • #39
                    Glad to hear that things are coming back, Martin siheng! I can't wait to hear about how your "old" training is seen with your fresh, new perspective.

                    Speaking of old and new, Sifu generously began sharing the secret videos from the 2012 Summer Camp where he taught Baguazhang. Plenty of fun memories from the first kung fu course I took in Shaolin Wahnam. Leaving aside the fact that my lasting legacy to Shaolin Wahnam seems to be "Eunuch Palm," I learnt so many lessons there which inform my practice today (including some of my personal habits like dodging off to the side as opposed to the more straight-forward applications in fundamental and intermediate level Shaolin kung fu). I've been spending most of my recent practice on Cosmos Palm and, lately, the Northern Shaolin Dragon Form, but I'm looking forward to getting back to Baguazhang as my main practice in the future.

                    Anyhow, hope the videos shed some light on my favorite martial art for those who weren't able to attend the 2012 and 2013 Baguazhang courses and maybe raises some fun memories for those that did. Enjoy your practice, folks!

                    Tim vs Fred Bagua combat.jpg
                    Depicted above: Eunuch Palm.
                    I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Thanks Frederick,

                      It's really good to hear people enjoying their practice and getting a lot from it. This reminds me of one of Sigung's lines which is "very good, carry on!"

                      Originally posted by Frederick_Chu View Post
                      Glad to hear that things are coming back, Martin siheng! I can't wait to hear about how your "old" training is seen with your fresh, new perspective.
                      From a fresh new perspective, my old daily training routine was very good to me actually, but it was quite long due to the length of time I used to spend with One Finger Shooting Zen as well as the breadth of my practice. It was a very good routine for me because I received great benefits from my training, full of spiritual joy, peace, happiness and vitality. I also felt strong mentally and physically.

                      My new current daily training routine is not anywhere near as long as it was five years ago partly because I've only recently gotten back into training, partly because it's enough to meet my current aim of achieving good health, vitality and confidence with my self-defence and partly because I enjoy my slightly longer sleeps at the moment . My daily routine now involves:

                      1) AM: 10 mins of self-defence drills to warm up and get the chi flowing from my sleep.
                      2) AM: Smile from the heart, Lifting the Sky & chi flow, sending blessings.
                      3) AM: Cross Roads at The Four Gates set.
                      4) AM: One Finger Shooting Zen.

                      5) PM: Sparring with imaginary partner (10 mins).
                      6) PM: Smile from the heart - chi flow, Pushing Mountains - gentle short chi flow, sending blessings.

                      The self-defence drills I currently train is the same as the ones I practiced five year ago before I stepped back. I thought they were effective back then and still do now, so I did not feel the need to change them. They are self-defence drills from standing position but I also link them together for free sparring, which I do when practicing sparring with imaginary partners. These are my core drills for self-defence and free sparring. There's not many actually, only about seven with an additional couple of patterns against kicks and shoots. I prefer to focus on the skills, speed and power of a handful of patterns than on lots of patterns.

                      At some point in the near future, I'd like to add into my routines Sinew Metamorphosis, Triple Stretch set, Four Gates combat sequences, combat applications of the Plum Flower sword, combat applications of the Travelling Dragon spear and free sparring with imaginary partners of these weapons. I found in the past that weapons training helped me a lot with my agility, as well as other more obvious benefits, so I look forward to practicing them again. This may sound like a lot of additions but it's not really. Each of them takes about 5-10 minutes to practice and if done once or twice a week it doesn't add much time to my daily practice.

                      Also in the near future, I'd like to regularly practice with a training partner/s my drills as well as a fair bit of free sparring. I'd like to do some weapons sparring too if the time and opportunity is there.

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                      • #41
                        Been a while, folks! Time to dig up a grave and see how people are training the Shaolin arts nowadays. I was lucky enough to attend the recent Winter Camp, where Sifu shared many aspects of Shaolin's three treasures in the form of kung fu, qigong, and Zen. I feel as though I'm bursting at the seams with the sheer amount of spread I received that week; time to focus on gaining some depth!

                        Over the past month, I'd actually scaled back to review the level one material of the Shaolin Kung Fu training program, namely refreshing my understanding of the fundamental stances and footwork methods, the single step application of the hand patterns of Lohan Asks the Way, using Rolling Thunder Overturns Sky against simple grips, Lohan Strikes Drum against kicks, and Move Stance Change Step against basic throws for application, with Golden Bridge and One Finger Shooting Zen as my main force training. I found it fascinating how even the act of training our kung fu patterns such as repeatedly practicing Single Tiger Emerges From Sea or Happy Bird Hops Up Branch could be its own form of force training and how easy it was to become distracted by the simple pleasure of practicing kung fu and losing sight of its purpose: self defense, not dancing to feel good. :P

                        Over the last few days, I've felt a strong desire to train the Northern Shaolin Dragon Form, so that set the stage for my current practice. A typical session might look like:
                        1. Entering Zen
                        2. Any particular qigong pattern I enjoy; lately, Lifting the Sky, Gentle Big Windmill, and General Surveys Field have made appearances.
                        3. Once a week, I'll train the breathing methods from the Winter Camp.
                        4. Force training in the form of Double Dragons Emerge From Sea; just one series done at the level of form, one series done at the level of flow, and one series done while focusing flow into force is quite enough. I'm mainly using the Two Character stance and only occasionally sitting in the Goat stance for now. Other times I'll do force training such as One Finger Shooting Zen or Cosmos Palm.
                        5. Practicing Dragon Expresses Marvelous Powers to sharpen the skill of Dragon force. I was lucky enough to be sitting next to Sifu at the graduation dinner when Sifu quite naturally demonstrated Dragon force while we were chatting about kung fu. On a related note, Sifu's website is a true treasure trove.
                        6. Individual pattern practice to build skills. Right now I am focusing on Swimming Dragon Plays With Water against simple strikes and kicks, with occasional dives into Dark Dragon Draws Water. When I'm more comfortable, I'll move on to using Swimming Dragon against grips and felling techniques, and likewise other patterns from the Dragon Form.
                        7. Occasionally I'll finish my practice with practicing the Zen cultivation methods taught at the Winter Camp. Other times I'll simply enjoy Flowing Breeze Swaying Willows, Standing Zen, and the Closing Sequence.


                        Quite a fun training session. I've found over the years that I have less and less desire to train full sets, but would rather just do a deep dive into a particular pattern or sequence.

                        So, what's on your plate?
                        I like making silly videos (including kung fu ones!) every so often on YouTube and taking pictures of weird things on Instagram.

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                        • #42
                          I enjoyed the Swimming Dragon video Fred, thanks for posting!

                          For me usually it is still much the same as I said on my earliest post in the thread ie ideally chi kung, force training (either stances, One Finger Zen, Siu Lim Tao etc), usually practise a couple of combat sequences / applications, and practise my sets on a kind of rotation, aiming to practise them about once a week each which means about one every two days. Usually one or two exercises from the other kungfu styles I practise as well. On days when I am very busy, tired or feeling overtrained I would cut this down.

                          But I also go with the flow to an extent, meaning I do some form of chi kung and force training as a minimum, but sometimes I flow into practising moving in stances, or repeating one or two moves over and over etc if it feels good.

                          I also adjust if for example sometimes I feel I have been doing too much force training and not enough flow for example.

                          And I adjust to prepare for or follow on from courses with Sifu or other instructors. So for example at the minute I am really enjoying going over the things we trained last week in Killarney.

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                          • #43
                            Right now my training is cycling through a few different things. My mornings are dedicated to what I learned in Ireland though.

                            Morning right now is Eighteen Lohan Arts, either 1 from each section, one complete section of 6, or all 18. I notice after doing the Eighteen Lohan Arts that my stances, art of flexibility, footwork, and techniques feel incredibly good, like my whole body is ready for Kungfu training!

                            Once my force training is done I move into combat application training, right now I am focusing on four methods of covering with forward rolling and stepping footwork. Same side and cross side, inside and outside taming. Then the Pakua set at the form level followed by individual application and sequence work.

                            At night I am revolving between Cosmos Palm, One Finger Zen, Sinew Metamorphosis, Abdominal Breathing, Thousand Steps, Marvelous Fist, Golden Bell, and Eighteen Lohan Hands/Jewels. I then enjoy 100 kicks and either I train with my staff or I practice something from the Basic Sequences, Cosmos Palm sequences, Tiger/Crane/Lohan Sequences, or Four Gates.

                            I spent so much time on Iron Wire in the past that I am preferring to focus on other stuff for spread at the moment, I do want to go back to it in the future though as I consider it a specialty of mine.

                            My favorite way to practice the Art of Pressing Attacks is how I learned in 2014 at Legacy of Wong Fei Hung. I work on pressing then spontaneously change directions to defend with a thought of "Kick!" "Punch!" "Grip!" and "Fell!" as well as spontaneously inserting Shadowless Kicks and Tiger Claws in logical moments.

                            As I am typing this I feel a bit flabbergasted at how much I have learned in the last 8 years.
                            Shaolin Wahnam USA

                            "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

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                            • #44
                              It's funny to mention, but I can't seem to NOT train for around an hour! By the time my Chi Kung, Stances, and Flexibility is done its already 30 minutes, I do my set(s) a couple of times at form level and that is another 10 minutes, I work on Covering with Pressing Footwork, and then individual application and sequence training and suddenly an hour has gone by in a flash.
                              Shaolin Wahnam USA

                              "Every morning you are born again. What you do today is the most important thing".

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                              • #45
                                What about the 8 Eye Techniques, David? ;-)

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