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Modern Scholarship - Web Development

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  • #16
    Originally posted by George
    It is not necessary to use JavaScript to make a website if your content and / or presentation does not need to change in the browser based on user actions or other factors. (And yes, you can and should make responsive pages with HTML and CSS alone. )
    Hurray!

    Is there a guide/tutorial you recommend about how to make a page mobile-responsive with only HTML and CSS?

    Also, perhaps a moderator could help us by changing the name of the thread to "Modern Scholarship - Web Development" rather than programming?

    Andrew
    Love, and do what you will.

    - St. Augustine

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    • #17
      Originally posted by rodrigo View Post
      May I also suggest, for people who're really serious about learning programming, C#, which is more generic and modern programming language, and which not only allows you to write websites like PHP, but also can be used for any kind of application, be it web, mobile, desktop, even IoT. So, if you learn it, not only you can write websites, but any kind of application
      Sorry, this is completely the wrong advice for web development and let's save general programming for another thread.
      Last edited by George; 22 July 2017, 01:00 AM.
      George / Юра
      Shaolin Wahnam England

      gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Andrew R View Post
        Is there a guide/tutorial you recommend about how to make a page mobile-responsive with only HTML and CSS?
        Media queries are what you are looking for. Google is awash with tutorials on using these.

        Originally posted by Andrew R View Post
        Also, perhaps a moderator could help us by changing the name of the thread to "Modern Scholarship - Web Development" rather than programming?
        Done
        George / Юра
        Shaolin Wahnam England

        gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by drunken boxer View Post
          Hey Rodrigo, from the perspective of those of us who have done older or more obscure languages, I was going to say that one reason php is a good choice is that in syntax for basic coding it seems similar to C#, java, C, C++. On the other hand that makes C# a good choice too! If I could choose, I would prefer to be proficient in C# than php, but there seem to be lots of resources around to help novices learn php in conjunction with web technology, I am not sure if that is the same for C#? (I don't know the answer, it is a genuine question.) Also, by using a proprietary language like C# would that tie us to Microsoft? Again I don't know the answer, just enquiring your opinion.
          yes, PHP is a great choice, was just suggesting C# for people who want to learn programming in general, not only for web. And yes, learning any language is enough basics to later on learn new languages, and yes, C# is of the C-like family of languages, so PHP is a good starting point, in fact, probably easier to learn than C#, which is object oriented, and so might make the initial learning curve a bit steeper.

          And since it is a very popular language, there are 1000s of online free resources, not sure if more or less than for PHP, but enough to get quite proficient with no cost.

          And no, c# is not tied to Microsoft, it is a standardized language, and with open source implementations (see http://www.mono-project.com). It runs, as I said, in Mac, Windows, Linux, Android, iOS, web, IoT devices, etc. So, if one was going to just learn one language, it is the one I would suggest to learn. Of course, much better if you learn as many languages as possible

          And coming back to web development only, I've found this:

          Master the foundational programming languages for Web development, HTML5, CSS and JavaScript, to gain skills in one of the fastest growing careers.


          edX is a great resource for online courses also, and all courses are free, so check it out.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by George View Post
            Sorry, this is completely the wrong advice for web development and let's save general programming for another thread.
            As I said in my previous post, I think PHP is probably easier to learn, but since we're talking about web development and C# supports also web development, why is it the wrong advice?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by rodrigo View Post
              why is it the wrong advice?
              - "Hi, I'd like you to help me find a nice frying pan and help me learn how to cook a tasty dinner."
              - "May I suggest you get this industrial kitchen, which takes up twice the size of your apartment and takes years to learn to operate. But you'll be able to make food on an industrial scale and probably your dinner too!"

              Last edited by George; 24 July 2017, 02:02 AM.
              George / Юра
              Shaolin Wahnam England

              gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by George View Post
                - "Hi, I'd like you to help me find a nice frying pan and help me learn how to cook a tasty dinner."
                - "May I suggest you get this industrial kitchen, which takes up twice the size of your apartment and takes years to learn to operate. But you'll be able to make food on an industrial scale and probably your dinner too!"

                sorry, I don't agree, the effort someone with no experience in programming would have to put on learning PHP is not much different from the effort needed to learn C# or any other language really. And on the other hand, learning a more modern and advanced language, like C# (or others, like Java, Swift, or even C, even though C is not "modern" at all) is compared to PHP, would give the student a better ground if he/she wants to pursue his/her learning. The same as learning Kungfu/Taijiquan from a not very competent teacher compared to learning it from Sifu directly, the not very competent teacher would only teach you how to do the Kungfu forms, while Sifu would teach you everything

                But if it's only about learning PHP, I'll stop my non-PHP-related suggestions then

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                • #23
                  If I may point something out, JavaScript is also used quite easily on the back end. If you're going to learn it anyway for front end, why not just use NodeJS on the back?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rodrigo View Post
                    sorry, I don't agree
                    You are free to do so, but you are still wrong.

                    Loose vs strict typing, compiled vs not, easy to host vs specialist hosting, strong Windows affinity vs truly cross-platform. And this is before we even start talking about the details of the language.

                    Actually, within the context of this thread all I would recommend PHP for is templating / assembling page from common parts. Anything beyond that is far too an advance topic for now.

                    I would have preferred to recommend static site generators instead but unfortunately at least the ones I looked for came with too much complexity to get everything set up.

                    And if we are going to play the quote Sifu game I have a gem:

                    "A great teacher knows what not to teach."

                    Translating this into professional language means to thoroughly understand requirements and available resources and make the best choice with those in mind.

                    Originally posted by Alex McLeod View Post
                    If I may point something out, JavaScript is also used quite easily on the back end. If you're going to learn it anyway for front end, why not just use NodeJS on the back?
                    This is better advice, but best left for (much) later. Additional complications with hosting your app would make this much more challenging than just copying over some files. There is also more to learn than just JavaScript. I do love Node though - it's a big part to of my current job.
                    Last edited by George; 26 July 2017, 08:42 AM.
                    George / Юра
                    Shaolin Wahnam England

                    gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Thanks to everyone for the input. For the purpose of this thread, I think it is quite sufficient to focus on HTML and CSS; the learning must follow a reasonable progression. The aim here is to motivate people who have not learned any basic web development to do so, since it is so beneficial and, arguably, a new standard for modern life.

                      A great website can be made using only HTML and CSS. As George pointed out, it can (and should) also be made responsive to mobile devices using the same languages. If a person learns this stuff and then decides they want more, more advanced languages can come later on.
                      Love, and do what you will.

                      - St. Augustine

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                      • #26
                        Programming curricula. Contribute to P1xt/p1xt-guides development by creating an account on GitHub.


                        Just thought you guys would like this resource.

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                        • #27
                          http://jsbin.com/ is useful if you just want to play about writing some code. You add your code there and it shows a live preview version as would be seen in the browser. I used it while teaching my nephew how to build a website a few months ago - he found it very fun to see the page change as he tweaked the code.
                          George / Юра
                          Shaolin Wahnam England

                          gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            If you are looking to host a static site (make it available online) you could look into using the (free) https://pages.github.com service. It will require a bit of extra learning to use git (which will be a useful skill in future) but after that is pretty easy to use. They have easy to follow steps on the site.
                            George / Юра
                            Shaolin Wahnam England

                            gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Thanks to Alex and George for those resources.

                              I like using JSFiddle/JSBin for working on the JS challenges from FCC.

                              So to the experienced coders, with a focus on making a Shaolin oriented website, what would be a reasonable guide to follow for learning enough to make a solid, responsive website? This would include steps for what online course(s) to take, timeframes, suggested practice projects, etc.
                              Love, and do what you will.

                              - St. Augustine

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                This looks like a reasonably good start: https://internetingishard.com/html-and-css/

                                You'll need to assemble and structure your content into pages. Don't worry about styling yet as you need to have content laid out before you can effectively decide on how it should be presented.

                                Then find a design you like, the simpler the better and that would suit your content and make it look like that.

                                For a responsive site you will need to decide on layout for each of the supported viewports.

                                How long it takes depends - hard to say without concrete content and design details.

                                But don't aim too high - better to do something simple even if it is not very good then not do anything at all - you can improve on something as long as there is something to improve on. That nice shaving website you linked to is a product of years of experience for sure.
                                George / Юра
                                Shaolin Wahnam England

                                gate gate pāragate pārasaṁgate bodhi svāhā

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