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Thread: 10 Questions Cotton Palm

  1. #11
    Tim's Avatar
    Tim is offline Sifu Tim Franklin - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam England
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    Here is part two of question one for you.

    (Continued from Part 1)

    In “Lone Drake Leaves Clowd”, internal force is channeled to his front hand. Internal force will also flow to his back hand, though the focus is at the front hand. It is a diagonal strike or block, moving from inside out, using the side of the harm or arm, similar to a Mirror Hand.

    “Whirlwind Cotton Palm” is softer. It is a palm strike, from outside in. There is also a reverse palm strike, using the back of the palm.

    In both “Green Dragon Lifts Head” and “Poisonous Snake Emerges from Cave”, energy is channeled to the palm and fingers. “Green Dragon Lifts Head” is a close-body attack using the False-Leg Stance. You can also use the knees of the False-Leg Stance to hit an opponent’s groin. “Poisonous Snake Emeges from Cave” is a far-reaching attack. It may be used when an opponent tries to move away.

    Cotton Palm force is alive, so you need not worry about any comparative differences in the application of the various patterns. Use the force for the combat situation. In other words in some situations “Wild Horse Chases Wind” may be harder than “Open Window to Look at Moon”, and in other situations, it may be softer. The same explanation applies to the other patterns.

    The force in both Cotton Palm and Cosmos Palm is more powerful than the force in Taijiquan. I believe the difference is not just a matter of, but a matter of class. In other words, Cotton Palm, Cosmos Palm and Taijiquan Palm are of different classes, not that when the force is less we call it Taijiquan force, and when it is more we call it Cotton Palm or Cosmos Palm.

    When an opponent is hit with Cotton Palm, he may not know it, but the injury, though insidious, can be very serious or fatal. When he is hit witl Cosmos Palm or Taijiquan Palm, he normally knows it.


    The pattern , “Weave Flowers Cotton Palm”, in the Drunken Eight Immortal set uses the Cotton Palm force. The force is soft, flowing and insideious, similar to he force we developed in the Wudnag Cotton Palm set.

    In the pattern, “Mien Shen’s Cotton Palm”, in the Praying Mantis Eighteen Collection set, the Cotton Palm force is hard. Uite unlike the Cotton Palm force we trained in the Wudang Cotton Palm set.

    As far as I know, there are two types of Cotton Palm force, one from Wudang Kungfu and the other from Praying Mantis Kungfu. Both types of Cotton Palm force may have the same origin, i.e. from Shaolin.

    In my younger days I learned a set of Cotton Palm from Praying Mantis Kungfu, called ?Mien Zhang”. I just learned the forms, and did not know how to develop Cotton Palm force. While it is softer than most Praying Mantis sets, it is much harder than the Wudang Cotton Palm set.

    When one has developed Cotton Palm force, not only his palms but all parts of his body are powerful, yet soft and flowing. In other words, when you have Cotton Palm force, you can strike, kick, fell or grip an opponent better than had you not attained the Cotton Palm force. You will also have better health, more vitality and longevity as well as attain peak performance and spiritual joys.

    <End>
    Tim Franklin

    http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
    A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

    www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

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  2. #12
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    Thank you Sifu for the insightful answer, it has been very interesting to read.

    Thank you brother Ollie for asking great questions.

    Thank you Tim Siheng for the post.
    “So I say to you –
    This is how to contemplate our conditioned existence in this fleeting world:”

    “Like a tiny drop of dew, or a bubble floating in a stream;
    Like a flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
    Or a flickering lamp, an illusion, a phantom, or a dream.”

    “So is all conditioned existence to be seen.”

    Thus spoke Buddha.

  3. #13
    Angel Guillermo's Avatar
    Angel Guillermo is offline Sifu Angel G. Perez Oliveras - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam Puerto Rico
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiguelS View Post
    Eternal gratitude towards Fully Alive for organising these wonderful courses and to Sigung for sharing this art.

    Dear Sigung,
    You told us and gave us an experience of all the amazing benefits that Cotton Palm can bring. My question is, how is it that Cotton Palm is so efficient in spiritual cultivation? Is it more beneficial than other arts in our school? How can we apply Cotton Palm to benefit our spiritual practices?

    Kind regards and many thanks,
    Miguel
    Dear Miguel,

    We had a wonderful experience of Expanding into the Cosmos during Summer Camp, using Cotton Palm, but it is a great question, that might inspire the rest of the family. Very excited and looking forward to Sifu gracing us all with an answer!
    [/SIGPIC] Sifu Angel G. Pérez Oliveras
    Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


    "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
    - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

    "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
    - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

  4. #14
    Tim's Avatar
    Tim is offline Sifu Tim Franklin - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam England
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    Another beautiful answer to this beautiful art:

    Question 2

    It is with immense gratitude to you that we have so many treasures to choose from when we practice. You mentioned during the course it is important to practice at the level that will provide the best benefit which may not necessarily be the highest.

    One Finger Shooting Zen is good for consolidating force and Cotton Palm is good for developing flowing force and both can be practiced at various levels.

    I used to practise One Finger Shooting Zen daily, but after the course I practise Cotton Palm daily and have reduced the frequency of my One Finger Shooting Zen practice. I practice both arts separately. Do the two arts complement each other when both are practised? Is it advisable to practise only one of the arts mentioned during a single session or on a single day?

    I recall that mentioned that flowing force is most useful for practical daily life and so have began to practice Cotton Palm in the morning as a wonderful way to start the day. Is there a more beneficial time of day to practice Cotton Palm other than avoiding midday especially if it is practiced with One Finger Shooting Zen?

    Joel


    Answer

    Indeed, it is unbelievable we have so many treasures to practice. Even if this is not unprecedented, it is very rare. Many schools have only one treasure, like Eagle Claw or Five-Animal Play.

    It is even worse that many kungfu practitioners not only do not benefit from their training, they even harm themselves, and many chi kung practitioners only perform gentle physical exercise. For example, many kungfu practitioners hurt themselves in free sparring, and many chi kung practitioners remain weak and sickly despite having practiced for many years.

    Not only we have a great variety of arts, we also have become ridiculously effective. It is true that a typical Shaolin Wahnam student now can get in one month what I myself would need a year to achieve in my students’ days. Hence, over-training is an issue we must all guard against.

    In most schools, dedicated practitioners want to get the best from their training. In our school, getting the best may be over-training, so we purposely perform below our level and obtain benefits that are best for our needs and aspirations. Getting too many or too intense benefits may be harmful. To other people not used to our philosophy, it may appear like a big joke.

    You are right in saying that One Finger Shooting Zen is good for consolidating force and Cotton Palm is good for developing flowing force and both can be practiced at various levels. We must choose the level that is suitable for us, which is not necessary the highest level.

    One-Finger Shooting Zen and Cotton Palm compliment each other when both are practiced at the same time or at different times. Of course, if one practices wrongly, it will be harmful.

    However, wrong practice is not an issue in our school, but over-training is. Even when a Shaolin Wahnam student makes mistakes due to carelessness or forgetfulness, his subsequent chi flow will be more than sufficient to erase the harm done, and still give him a bonus.

    Whether it is advisable to practice only one of the two arts during a single session or on a single day depends on various factors, like aims of the training, objectives of that session, and the developmental stage of the practitioner. But generally, it does not matter whether he practices them separately or at the same time. What he needs to be careful is not to over-practice.

    Generally, flowing force is more useful for practical daily life, while consolidated force is more useful for combat. Practicing Cotton Palm in the morning is a wonderful way to start the day. It is probably the best time to practice. Another good time to practice is in the evening or at night.

    <End>
    Tim Franklin

    http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
    A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

    www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

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  5. #15
    Tim's Avatar
    Tim is offline Sifu Tim Franklin - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam England
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    Thank you Anton of this question. The other parts will follow:

    Question 3

    Thank you for teaching Cotton Palm. During the course, you frequently mentioned that having a foundation in Cosmos Palm would accelerate the attainment of Cotton Palm, but not vice versa. Usually, the benefits of different arts complement each other (such as the Iron Wire and the Yang Style Taijiquan). However, in this case, why does it complement unidirectional?

    Consequently, if one did not have a foundation in Cosmos Palm before learning Cotton Palm, would the parallel training of Cosmos Palm accelerate the attainment of Cotton Palm? If yes, should one rather practice both in a single session or spread it out to two sessions? Furthermore, should one (theoretically) learn Cosmos Palm first and later progress to Cotton Palm to accelerate progress?

    You´ve mentioned that the Cotton Palm set was very advanced and even more suitable for spiritual attainment than Wudang Taijiquan. Years ago you mentioned that the most advanced sets in our school were Dragon Strength, Essence of Shaolin, the Seven Star Set and Praying Mantis Crushing Fist. Would you place Cotton Palm among them? And what are the most advanced sets in our School today?

    Sifu Anton Schmick


    Answer

    I am glad I taught Cotton Palm at the UK Summer Camp. This set brings our practice to a new and higher level.

    Nowadays, internal force is very rare. However, all our students in Shaolin Wahnam have internal force. Further, our students are able to employ their internal force to contribute to their health, vitality longevity, and to enrich their daily lives.

    If someone has internal force, these benefits mentioned above are spontaneous. In other words, if he has internal force, he will be healthy, full of vitality, have longevity, and be able to enrich his daily life.

    However, if he is aware of these benefits, his internal force will enhance them. Further, if he is able to make use of these benefits to enrich his daily life, the benefits will even better. In other words, our students, being aware of the benefits and being able to employ the benefits to enrich their daily life, are two steps ahead of those who only have internal force.

    It should be noted that some masters in the past, like Yang Deng Fu and Guo Yun Sheng, the great masters of Taijiquan and Xingyiquan, had a lot of internal force, but it could not be said that internal force had enriched their lives. Yang Deng Fu sustained injury for life; he did not know chi flow to clear his injury. Guo Yun Shen aas violent and spent 3 years in prison for killing an opponent, he did not use his internal force to balance his emotions. But there was no doubt they were great masters.

    If one has Cosmos Palm, it is easier for him to learn Cotton Palm, but it may not be so the other way round. This is because both flowing force and consolidating force are necessary in the training of Cosmos Palm. Hence a practitioner who already knows Cosmos Palm just needs to develop flowing force in Cotton Palm.

    (Part 2 follows)
    Tim Franklin

    http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
    A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

    www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

    Fully Alive on Facebook Energy Flow for Health and Happiness

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  6. #16
    Tim's Avatar
    Tim is offline Sifu Tim Franklin - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam England
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    Part 2 continues...

    (Continued from Part 1)

    On the other hand, a practitioner who knows Cotton Palm. i.e. trained in flowing force, may not have any advantage when training Cosmos Palm, i.e. training consolidating force. However, in our school Shaolin Kungfu students may not have a big problem because they have practiced One-Finger Shooting Zen, which includes both flowing force and consolidating force. Taijiquan students may have a problem because they are trained only in flowing force.

    In other schools, those trained in Cosmos Palm may face a big problem when they also train Cotton Palm, and vice versa. It is because flowing force may contradict consolidating force. Hence, in most other schools, masters specialize in only one art, either Cosmos Palm or Cotton Palm – if they ever have the chance to learn it.

    We really don’t mean to be presumptuous, but our Shaolin Wahnam students are really very lucky. Not only they have a chance to train Cotton Palm or Cosmos Palm, or any other arts, they also understand their underlying philosophy and are able to transfer their skills and knowledge to enrich their daily lives.

    Your statement that different arts complement one another is applicable only in our school where we understand their underlying philosophy and have the skills to convert one type of force or one art to another. Most other schools do not understand the underlying philosophy of the arts they are trained in, and do not have the skills to convert one type of force or art to another.

    It will be detrimental if they train Cotton Palm and Cosmos Palm together, or train Iron Wire and Yang Style Taijiquan together. They will not have Cotton Palm or Cosmos Palm, or not have Iron Wire force or Yang Style Taijiquan force, because their flowing force and consolidating force will cancel each other.

    I remember that years ago when I was training Cosmos Palm, I asked my sifu, Sifu Ho Fatt Nam, whether I could train Tiger Claw at the same time. He told me clearly that I should train only one art at any one time.

    In our case of Cosmos Palm and Cotton Palm, the complement is unidirectional because Cosmos Palm has both flowing force and consolidating force, whereas Cotton Palm has only flowing force. A practitioner who has Cosmos Palm, i.e. who is trained in both flowing force and consolidating force, will find it easier when he learns Cotton Palm, because he already has flowing force. He just has to make his flowing force more conducive to Cotton Palm. A Cotton Palm practitioner, who is trained in flowing force, has to learn consolidaiting force.

    Because we understand their underlying philosophy and have the skills to convert one type of force into another, and other benefits, we are anble to accomplish Cotton Palm, Cosmos Palm or any other art much faster than other practitioners. Our speed or cost-effectiveness is unbelievable. If we say that we can achieve result faster, most people may think that we are twice or may be three times faster, which is quite a lot.

    But if we say that our students can chieve in one month what other practitioners would take one year, which is more than 10 times faster, most other people will find us ridiculous. But it is true. If any of those who attended our Cotton Palm Course practice every day for a month, he will attain a result similar to others who take a year.

    If one has not learnt Cosmos Palm before, but train Cotton Palm and Cosmos Palm simultaneous.ly, assuming that he could do so (but I have said that I will not teach Cosmos Palm again, and without false modesty,, I don’t think anyone, including those who attended the Cosmos Palm Course, could teach Cosmos Palm as effectively as I did), theoretically he will not accelerate his attainment of Cotton Palm; he will slow doen his attainment.

    The reasoning is simple. If method A will produce result X, and a practitioner practices methods A and B, result X will take a longer time.

    This is a different case from a practitioner, who already knows Cosmos Palm, taking a shorter time to accomplish Cotton Palm. If method B produces result Y, which in this case represents the training to accomplish Cosmos Palm, and method B includes P and Q, which represent flowing force and consolidating force, the practitioner will take a shorter time to accomplish X, which is Cotton Palm, which can be accomplished by method A which includes only P.

    (Part 3 follows)
    Tim Franklin

    http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
    A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

    www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

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  7. #17
    Tim's Avatar
    Tim is offline Sifu Tim Franklin - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam England
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    Part 3 of question 3...

    (Continued from Part 2)

    To make things appear clearer, let us look at the algebra again.

    Method A produces result X, i.e. practicing method A a practitioner accomplishes Cotton Palm.

    Method B produces result Y, i.e. practicing method B a practitioner accomplishes Cosmos Palm.

    Method A includes P, which is flowing force.

    Method B includes P and Q, which are flowing force and consolidating force.

    If a practitioner practices A and B, he will take a longer time than if he only practices A to accomplish the result.

    If a practitioner practices B (which includes P and Q) he will take a shorter time than if he only practices A (which only includes P) to accomplish the result.

    The answer is no, so your question does not apply. But for the sake of theoretical curiosity, I shall give an answer. If the answer were yes, it is better to practice both Cosmos Palm and Cotton Palm in a single session, so that the practice of one are can complement the other art. I would like to mention again that this situation is applicable only in our school. In most other schools, the effect of one art will cancel the effect of the other art.

    As the answer is no, which means he will take a longer time to accomplish Cotton Palm if he also practices the method for Cosmos Palm, it is better for him to practice the two methods for Cotton Palm and for Cosmos Palm in two separate sessions so that the negative interference will be less. If he practices just the method for Cotton Palm, without adding the method for Cosmos Palm, he will accomplish his Cotton Palm faster.

    It is not just theoretical, but actually practical, to accelerate progress, but guard against over-training, to learn Cosmos Palm first and then progress to Cotton Palm. But those who missed my Cosmos Palm course, don’t attempt to learn Cosmos Palm on their own, but stick to Cotton Palm.

    Learning Cosmos Palm on their own is likely to result in mistakes. It Even when theyis unwise to accelerate progress at the risk of making mistakes. Even when they stick to Cotton Palm, they are 10 times more efficient than most other practitioners. To avoid over-training, they should not aim at 10 times more cost-effective, but at 3 times or at 30%. It is very rare to have an opportunity to learn Cotton Palm.

    The Cotton Palm Set we learned at the Cotton Palm coirse is very advanced, if we know how to train it correctly, otherwise it is just like a routine for demonstration. In my opinion, the Cotton Palm set is more suitable than Wudang Taijiquan for spiritual attainment.

    You must have remember wrongly. I did not mention that the Seven-Star set and the Praying Mantis Crushing Fist set are the most advanced sets in our school. The Seven-Star set is excellent for combat, especially for the smaller and weaker against the strong and powerful. , but I would place it at a medium level. I would place the Praying Mantis Crushing Fist set at an elementary level. It was the first Praying Mantis set I learned.

    I would place Cotton Palm amongst the most advanced sets in our school, at the level of Cosmos Palm, Dragon Strength, Essence of Shaolin, Wudang Taijiquan and Flower Set. Different people will have different choice, but to me the most advance ed sets in our school are Dragon Strength and Essence of Shaolin.

    <End>
    Tim Franklin

    http://www.theguardianlions.co.uk
    A story of finding Courage and Wisdom

    www.zenarts.co.uk Classes and Courses for Shaolin Kung Fu, Taijiquan and Qigong in Bognor Regis, Chichester, West Sussex

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  8. #18
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    Angel Guillermo is offline Sifu Angel G. Perez Oliveras - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam Puerto Rico
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    Spiritual Attainment using Cotton Palm set

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Part 3 of question 3...
    Dear Tim,

    Thanks so much for keeping up with this extension and progresion of the wonderful UK Summer Camp, and thanks so much to Sifu for keeping up with his amazing teaching answering this excelent questions.

    The Cotton Palm Set we learned at the Cotton Palm coirse is very advanced, if we know how to train it correctly, otherwise it is just like a routine for demonstration. In my opinion, the Cotton Palm set is more suitable than Wudang Taijiquan for spiritual attainment.
    I wonder, how Wudang Cotton Palm set is more suitable than Wudang Taijiquan for spiritual attainment?

    Best Wishes,
    Angel
    [/SIGPIC] Sifu Angel G. Pérez Oliveras
    Shaolin Wahnam Institute Puerto Rico


    "Life becomes more meaningful and beautiful as you work towards the realization of your own innate immortality."
    - Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit

    "La vida se vuelve más significativa y hermosa según trabajas hacia la realización de tu propia innata inmortalidad."
    - Gran Maestro Wong Kiew Kit

  9. #19
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    Anton S. is offline Sifu Anton Schmick - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam Germany
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    Dear Sigung,

    thank you very much for your kind and very enlightening answer!

    Cotton Palm is simply amazing. Especially because it is so simple and profound, and also the shortest among the most advanced sets (Cosmos Palm, Dragon Strength, Essence of Shaolin, Wudang Taijiquan and Flower Set).

    I am very happy that you took your time to answer my question. Thank you very much!

    With best regards,
    Anton.
    Engage and maintain joyful practice!

    May all of you get the best benefits from what you do.

    Anton Schmick
    Shaolin Wahnam Germany Nord

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  10. #20
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    Honorable Sigung,

    Thank you so much for answering my questions! I learned quite a lot about the philosophy and applications of the set.

    Looking forward to reading more answers to Wahnam Family's beatiful and useful inquiries!

    With sincere gratitude,
    Olli
    On my way to understanding the greatness of gratitude.
    Thank you Sifu, Sigung, and Past Masters!

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