Lucid Dreaming and Dream Yoga

[understanding]

Hi my dear Shaolin Wahnam Family and visitors!

Does anyone have experience with lucid dreams or (Tibetan) Dream Yoga?

I have been considering getting a gentle expert introduction to lucid dreaming in late October and then having more advanced Dream Yoga teachings from a high-level teacher later when I'm more skilled with the basics of Chi Kung and lucid dreaming.

One particularly cool application for lucid dreams was mentioned that it may be used to learn and enhance skills in sports and playing instruments. Does anyone have experience if dreams can be wisely utilized to practicing Kungfu sequences and combat applications on form level? Sparring against a dream opponent might be more rewarding than an imaginary opponent in waking world for one.

With sincere respect,
Olli

[RDBoucher]

Charlie Morley and Lucid dreaming

Hi Ollie,

I would recommend you read this book by Charlie Morley on Lucid Dreaming (4.8 out of 5 stars on Amazon) and then attend one of his courses.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreams-Awakening-Lucid-Dreaming-Mindfulness/dp/1781802025?ie=UTF8&ref_=asap_bc

As you will be aware, Dream Yoga is one of the six yogas of Naropa which are traditionally taught within the context of a 3 year retreat in Tibetan Buddhism. Lama Yeshe, the Abbot of Samye Ling monastery in Dumfries, has authorised Charlie to teach Lucid dreaming under the guidance of Rob Nairn. Having read Charlie's latest book and attended one of his weekend courses I have to say he is an excellent (young) teacher. Also, he is in fact teaching a course on Holy Isle in August - see details here:

http://holyisland.org/index/holyisle-course-action?id=146&course_title=Dreams+of+Awakening+

[David Langford]

I love lucid dreams. The human mind is the best Virtual Reality device in the world!

[understanding]

Hi people,

Would anyone be interested in recounting how you developed the lucid dreaming skill and in what time frame? How often do you see lucid dreams?


Dear David B,

Thanks for the interesting information on the topic. I will have to revisit these resources later when I study the subject more throughoutly.


Dear Mirva,

I would be very interested in reading your exploits about how doing Kungfu in dreams works in practice. I'm not sure if anyone has ever done it before in our school, but the same oft spoken dangers about overtraining can't be overlooked, so your Sifu is also probably very interested in hearing what effects dream Chi Kung or Kungfu might produce. Take care and have fun dreams!


With sincere respect,
Olli

[understanding]

Hei Mirva,

Kungfu sequence training without chi kung state of mind is like any regular physical excercise so no danger of overtraining - awake or asleep - just the benefit of tapping into the part of the brain that actually remembers in what order all the 138 moves went

I'll take your word for it that it's completely safe then. Because I have no experience of lucid dreaming, I really couldn't tell if the dream state is more "formless" or more easily conductive to heightened states of consciousness than the regular physical training. For example, I have no direct experience how managing tension and relaxation works in dreams and if the mind is at least as easily distracted in dreams as in our waking time.

Still, I would be very curious and eager to read a dream diary by you on how well you manage to use the Kungfu training in dreams to further your actual skills.

With sincere respect,
Olli

[Matthew]

Hi Olli,

I'm also curious about lucid dreaming and Charlie Morley's book "Lucid Dreaming" is a great starter for understanding the scope and techniques for experiencing it. By setting an intention before sleeping that you intend to have lucid dreams and have excellent dream recall, you can start to recall your dreams, document them, and in time realise you are dreaming within the dream, where you become lucid. [I'm not there yet!]. The scope of lucid dreaming is super-exciting and effectively limitless.

Good luck.

Matthew

[Kevin_B]

In what seems like a long time ago (probably because it was a long time ago!), I went through an intense phase of lucid dreaming for about a year or so. It happened quite spontaneously and without any great fuss, just seemed to dissipate from me. It was only later when reading about dreams and dreaming that I came across the term ‘lucid dreaming’ and recognised what had been happening on my nightly journeys to the land of nod and beyond.

It certainly was fun at the time and something I gave much thought to at the time. I don't believe any harm came to me as a result of this period of dreaming and it is very good that I can say that, as I don't believe that everyone who has ever had a lucid dream can say likewise.

So what benefits did lucid dreaming being to my life?

Well, lucid dreaming did nothing whatsoever to improve my health or well-being. It did nothing to cultivate a greater sense of peace in my mind or spirit and it did absolutely nothing for helping me improve personal or work relationships (even trying to associate this benefit with lucid dreaming actually makes me smile) and, well, lucid dreaming actually offered no tangible benefits to my life in anyway at all.

I would see lucid dreaming as being somewhat analogous to drinking a few beers: a bit of fun, but hardly a tool for personal growth.

So thats my two cents on lucid dreaming!

[Matthew]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for sharing so honestly!

From what I've read, I think there is a difference between one or more lucid dream (noun) which it sounds like you experienced and lucid dreaming (verb) which is where you realise you're dreaming and then can participate actively and "consciously" in the dream whilst dreaming, which of course means that you can do and achieve things you may not be able to do in your "normal" waking state, and effectively interact with one's unconscious in productive and useful ways.

Even without lucid dreaming, reflecting on the symbology within the dream and its possible meanings could teach us something about what's going on for us, as it's coming from our unconscious. So perhaps you had some insights from your dreams after all?

Best wishes,
Matthew

[Kevin_B]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for sharing so honestly!

From what I've read, I think there is a difference between one or more lucid dream (noun) which it sounds like you experienced and lucid dreaming (verb) which is where you realise you're dreaming and then can participate actively and "consciously" in the dream whilst dreaming, which of course means that you can do and achieve things you may not be able to do in your "normal" waking state, and effectively interact with one's unconscious in productive and useful ways.

Even without lucid dreaming, reflecting on the symbology within the dream and its possible meanings could teach us something about what's going on for us, as it's coming from our unconscious. So perhaps you had some insights from your dreams after all?

Best wishes,
Matthew

Hi Matt,

Thank you for the reply. Very long time no see btw - I hope all is well!

My experiences of lucid dreaming were of the verb variety where my conscious mind was very much aware that I was dreaming while I dreaming. As I mentioned, it was good fun at the time, but that was where the benefits of it ended for me.

What bothers me about Lucid dreaming is that its promise enthrals quite like nothing else. Just right now I simply googled 'Lucid Dreaming' and was instantly promised:

Fulfill any fantasy. Fly over mountains, have dream sex, go base jumping, shapeshifting, time traveling, dinosaur spotting, ninja fighting, meeting your hero and visiting alien planets.

If someone chooses to explore Lucid dreaming in the pursuit of the above then good luck to them on their adventure. But assuming no harm came to them in their pursuit of its promises (something which is certainly not guaranteed) I could think of a lot of other more productive ways they could expend their time and efforts .

I do however totally accept the capacity of ordinary dreaming to offer us wisdom and guidance in our lives. But that of course is a different matter to lucid dreaming.

All the best,

Kevin

[RDBoucher]

Possible usefulness of lucid dreaming

Hi,

As an example of the usefulness of lucid dreaming, our plumber on Holy Isle who used to be in the armed forces and the fire service and as a consequence of some of the traumatic situations he experienced in those roles developed PTSD. After attending Charley Morley's 4 day course two years ago he was able to use the techniques of dealing with the shadow within the dream state, plus his daily mindfulness meditation, to heal himself. He is now working as a Buddhist chaplain for the British Army.

My understanding is that spiritual practice within the dream state can be very effective. If you do some research into the 6 yogas of Naropa you will find some very interesting information about the potential of dream yoga.