Wu Zu Quan - Ten Questions To Grandmaster Wong

[Maxime]

Dear Everyone,

Grandmaster Wong will be teaching a special three-days Wu Zu Quan course in France, near Strasbourg, on the 7th, 8th & 9th of September 2016 (followed by a weekend of Qi Gong courses as well). The course will focus mainly on the famous set, San Zhan. More info on the courses schedule on our webpage.

On this special occasion, Grandmaster Wong has kindly agreed to answer 10 questions on Wu Zu Quan, the Five Ancestors Kung Fu, which he learned in the 1960s directly from the wonderful Grandmaster Chee Kim Tong lineage.

For those who have no idea what wu Zu Quan is, you can start with those nice videos here or here.

So to your keyboards for some smart questions!

Maxime

[Luo Lang]

Triple Strech-San Zhan

Dear Sifu,

As I have attended the Triple Stretch course in the UK as well as the Wuzuquan course in Malaysia I have a specific question:

What for instance are the benefits on the physical, energetical (force) and mind level for someone who specialises in the Triple Stretch Set by practising the San Zhan Set of Wuzuquan?

Thank you in advance for answering my question,

Roland

[Mark Blohm]

Dear Sifu,

Are there any special weapon sets associated with San Zhan, Wuzuquan or the lineage of Sifu Chee Kim Thong? In addition, how can the skills and principles from San Zhan and Wuzuquan improve our weapons practice?

Sincerely,

Mark Blohm

[Damian Kissey]

Wu Zu Quan : Short and Simple Kungfu sets

In our school , kung fu is also chi kung but with the added benefit of combat efficiency . My personal favorite short kungfu set for solo daily practice nowadays is from Wuzuquan , ie San Zhan alternating with Ti Jiao ( which is quite similar to San Zhan but with kick techniques added) .

For our busy modern scholar-warrior , time for daily extended practice is limited but due to the practice efficacy in our school , the latest typical recommendation for daily practice duration is about 15 minutes for chi kung or 30 minutes for kung fu : but over the years , on a personal note , I still have been able to enjoy adequate benefits despite reducing daily practice time to 2-3 or 5 minutes for chi kung and kungfu respectively ! The latter situation is possible by choosing shorter kungfu sets which takes about 1 minute only to perform ( eg a specialized shaolin kungfu set like San Zhan or Ti Jiao, a basic shaolin kungfu set like Lohan Asks the Way , a simplified taijiquan set like Cloud Hands or a spiritual cultivation set like Dragon in Zen ; although all these sets have strikes , qinna & dim mak , some sets have no formal felling or kick techniques ) followed by chi flow and standing meditation.


If all things are equal , for a time-constrained non-beginner kungfu practitioner in our school aiming for health , combat efficiency ( technique, skill , internal force ) and mind training , how does the various abovementioned short kungfu sets compare in terms of efficacy ?

Thank you to Brother Maxime and our dear Sifu

[Anton S.]

Dear Sigung,

after the Wuzuquan Intensive Course and the following practice I was really interested to learn the whole Wuzuquan system.
What is the best way to approach it? Are you likely to teach more sets Wuzuquan in the future?

Grateful regards,
Anton

[Steffen]

Fascinating art!

Dear Sisookgung Maxime,

thank you very much for moderating this great opportunity to ask our beloved Grandmaster questions on the miraculous San Zhan! Our brothers and sisters attending this course will surely be blown away .

Dear Sitaigung,

you described San Zhan as profundity in simplicity and gave us a fascinating account of the special benefits of preparing the Wuzuquan course in December 2012 in Malaysia (to be read here) which has lead to some questions on my part:

How does San Zhan create so much internal force? Is this principle found in other force training methods in our school?

What are other special internal skills which are developed by this set? How can we test them and what are their benefits in daily life?

Finally, if I may: Why has this set remained the same since its creation in the Yuan Dynasty while so many other high level sets have been modified throughout history?

I realize that the above are more than one question and apologize for that. Nevertheless, this topic is so interesting!

Thank you very much in advance for your time and effort!

With kindest regards from Germany,
Steffen

[sonwukong]

Dear Grand-Master Wong Kiew Kit,

Hearing about Sifu Chee Kim Thoong sounds like something absolutely marvelous from a high budget Kung Fu Film, the following is pulled from the Wikipedia page on him, which I assume is for the most part accurate as there are still many people in authoritative positions to fact check the information:
"After the conflict, Grandmaster Chee Kim Thong deliberately concealed his identity and his martial arts background, instead becoming increasingly known in Malaysia for his work as a very successful healer and bone-setter: bone-setting was one of the medical skills that authentic traditional Chinese martial arts that masters of his generation possessed.

Grandmaster Chee's martial arts prowess was publicly revealed when, whilst working as a bus conductor, he defended the bus driver from a mob of angry villagers wielding parangs (a type of sword)[10] whilst unarmed. His reputation soon spread until Mr Yap Cheng Hai of Singapore (who would become Grandmaster Chee's first disciple) travelled to meet him and implored him to resume his teaching of the martial arts."

My question is in the same trend as my previous line of questioning, what are the specific features & characteristics of Wu Zu Quan in dealing with single unarmed against multiple unarmed & single unarmed against multiple armed? What are the most noticible similarities & contrasts of said tactics & strategies in comparison to Choy Lay Fut, Hoong Ka, or Ba Gua Zhang?

[Maxime]

And here are the first answers from Sifu

Question 1

As I have attended the Triple Stretch course in the UK as well as the Wuzuquan course in Malaysia I have a specific question:

What are the benefits on the physical, energetic (force) and mind levels for someone who specializes in the Triple Stretch Set by practicing the San Zhan Set of Wuzuquan?

Sifu Roland Mastel, Shaolin Wahnam Switzerland

.
Grandmaster Wong´s Answer

Physically and comparatively, Triple Stretch techniques are more sophisticated. Triple Stretch was the selected set of the Venerable Sam Tuck and Hoong Hei Koon, two great practitioners of Southern Shaolin Kuagfu.

I am not sure whether the selected set of my sifu, Uncle Righteousness, was also Triple Stretch, because he also used Dragon Strength, but he frequently used a sequence from Triple Stretch, that of Black Tiger and Fierce Tiger, and it won him the honorable nickname of Uncle Righteousness. Incidentally, the sequence my sifu used was also simple. It was his skills in using the simple techniques that made him formidable.

The combat techniques of San Zhan are simple. But many martial artists may not know how these simple techniques are applied in combat. Hence, they are also very profound. By being simple, I mean there are minimal moves. The techniques are used on opponents directly and fast. By being profound, I mean the application of the techniques is not obvious or easily known.

By comparison the combat techniques of Triple Stretch are obvious. When a Triple Stretch exponent executes an elbow attack, a low tiger-claw to the groin, or a hanging fist to the face, for example, an opponent knows the attack.

The combat techniques of San Zhan, like “Catch Hand” and “Palm Strike” for example, are also obvious. But what is not obvious is that “Catch Hand” is not merely a block, but a chin-na attack, and “Palm Strike” is not merely striking an opponent but by means of body-movement and footwork it can counter any form of attack!

Moreover, an initiated person observing a Triple Stretch performance will know its combat application. But not many martial artists know the subtle combat application of San Zhan. What, for example, is the combat application of “Separate Wings”, and “Sun and Moon”? Initiated persons may know that these techniques are meant for force training, and the uninitiated, even when they practice martial arts, may think these techniques are just flowery.

<Part 2 follows>

[Maxime]

And the last part of the answer to question 1...


.
Grandmaster Wong´s Answer

(Continued from Part 1)

An obvious physical difference is the use of the Bow-Arrow Stance in Triple Stretch, and the Triangle Stance in San Zhan. An initiated person would know that the Bow-Arrow Stance is used in attack, but not many people would know that by a skillful application of the Triangle Stance an exponent can use it against any form of attack.

In Triple Stretch an exponent can avoid an opponent’s force by retreating to the False-Leg Stance. Not many people would know that a San Zhan exponent can achieve similar effects by subtle movement of the body, often without moving the legs, and the San Shan movement is faster.

Energetically, the force in Triple Stretch is consolidated, whereas that in San Zhan is flowing. If all other things were equal, consolidated force, while powerful in combat, is not conducive to health, but flowing force is.

When consolidated force is exaggerated, which may happen even to some masters, the energy that contributes to internal force will be locked up to become muscles, and this is detrimental to health. This will not happen in San Zhan simply because the energy is flowing. Even amongst beginners who have not developed flowing force, locking their energy to become muscles will not happen to them because they have to be relaxed when performing the set, whereas in Triple Stretch beginning students may tense their muscles.

But other things are not equal. Shaolin Wahnam students are able to generate chi flow. Even when they consolidate their energy to become internal force in Triple Stretch, their energy is flowing. Even when they practice wrongly when attempting to consolidate force, but performing isometric exercise instead of consolidating their flowing energy, their chi flow at the end of their training session can eliminate any harm caused.

On the other hand, it is more difficult to develop internal force, or even mechanical strength, in San Zhan. I spent more than two years practicing San Zhan but I did not develop any internal force. Perhaps if I had spent twenty years, I might develop it.

It is easier and faster to develop internal force suing the consolidating method. Even when a practitioner practices wrongly, tensing his muscles instead of consolidating his flowing energy, for example, he can still have mechanical strength, though this may be detrimental to health. But our students in Shaolin Wahnam can overcome the mistake and still get a bonus with their chi flow.

Because one has to be relaxed when performing San Zhan, he (or she) can achieve more and faster at the mind level. Even when a Triple Stretch practitioner practices correctly, like consolidating flowing energy instead of locking his energy into muscles, the nature of his practice is such that his attainment will ne less and slower at the mind level. Hence, if all other things were equal, a San Zhan practitioner is more relaxed, more focused and has more mental clarity than a Triple Stretch practitioner.

We had direct experience of this benefit at the Special Wuzuquan Course in Penang in 2012. Besides developing internal force in the orthodox way, course participants use San Zhan techniques to develop internal force as in Iron Wire, Flower Set, Siu Lin Tou and also in Triple Stretch. This may not be possible using Triple Stretch techniques. Course participants could do so because they were relaxed, which contributed greatly to the mind level.

Our Family members can apply the same principle in their daily life, including in intellectual work. Hence, if all other things were equal, a San Zhan practitioner would be more efficient than a Triple Stretch practitioner. (This, of course, does not mean a Triple Stretch practitioner is not efficient.) If he (or she) plans a company project, plays tennis, eats breakfast, or engages in sex, for example, he will have better results.

<End>

[Maxime]

Question answer 2

Question 2

Are there any special weapon sets associated with San Zhan, Wuzuquan or the lineage of Sifu Chee Kim Thong? In addition, how can the skills and principles from San Zhan and Wuzuquan improve our weapons practice?

Sifu Mark Blohm , Shaolin Wahnam Taiwan


Grandmaster Wong ´s Answer

When I learned at Sifu Chee Kim thong’s home in Dungun, weapons were not taught nor even mentioned. I presumed that the emphasis was on unarmed combat.

However, when I visited his school in Kuala Lumpur, I saw a weapon rack with a variety of kungfu weapons. The weapons were also very heavy, about two or three times heavier than most other weapons in other kungfu schools! I presumed that weapons were taught to senior students.

There are no weapon sets associated with San Zhan. When I was learning San Zhan at Sifu Chee Kim Thong’s house, I thought that San Zhan was primary meant to train internal force. Many years later when I prepared myself to teach Wuzuquan in our school, I realized that San Zhan could be used against any form of attack.

Weapons are taught in Wuzuquan. I have seen videos of weapon sets performed by various Wuzuquan schools. The performers used Wuzuquan skills and techniques.

I believe that weapons are taught in Sifu Chee Kim Thong’s lineage although I have not seen any of Sifu Chee Kim Thong’s disciples performing them. If weapons were not found in the lineage, there would not be a weapon rack with a great variety of weapons in Sifu Chee Kim Thong’s official school. Boxing and Taekwondo schools, for example, do not normally display weapon racks. I also heard, though I can’t remember clearly, that it wouldn’t be a problem for students of the school to perform the very heavy weapons because they had internal force.

Although San Zhan is not associated with any weapons, and even if there were no weapons taught in Sifu Chee Kim Thong’s lineage, I am very sure that the skills and techniques from San Zhan will improve our weapon practice.

San Zhan develops flowing internal force. With internal force, any weapon, even when learnt from other lineage, will be easier to perform and apply. The flowing force also makes the performance and application of any weapon flexible and fast.

The techniques in Wuquzuan are suitable for weapons. The short stances, which are characteristic of Wuzuquan, prevent the exponent holding the weapon from being hit by opponents. The simplicity and directness of Wuzuquan are useful in weapon application. The profundity in simplicity of Wuzuquan enables the exponent to understand and work out on his own subtle application of the weapon.

[Maxime]

Question answer 3

Question 3

In our school , kung fu is also chi kung but with the added benefit of combat efficiency. My personal favorite short kungfu set for solo daily practice nowadays is from Wuzuquan, ie San Zhan alternating with Ti Jiao (which is quite similar to San Zhan but with kick techniques added).

For our busy modern scholar-warriors, time for daily extended practice is limited but due to the practice efficacy in our school, the latest typical recommendation for daily practice duration is about 15 minutes for chi kung or 30 minutes for kung fu: but over the years, on a personal note, I still have been able to enjoy adequate benefits despite reducing daily practice time to 2-3 or 5 minutes for chi kung and kungfu respectively!

The latter situation is possible by choosing shorter kungfu sets which takes about 1 minute only to perform, eg a specialized Shaolin kungfu set like San Zhan or Ti Jiao, a basic Shaolin kungfu set like Lohan Asks the Way, a simplified Taijiquan set like Cloud Hands or a spiritual cultivation set like Dragon in Zen; although all these sets have strikes, qinna and dim mak, some sets have no formal felling or kick techniques. followed by chi flow and standing meditation.

If all things were equal, for a time-constrained non-beginner kungfu practitioner in our school aiming for health, combat efficiency (technique, skill, internal force) and mind training, how does the various abovementioned short kungfu sets compare in terms of efficacy?

Dr. Damian Kissey


Grandmaster Wong´s Answer

Thank you, Damian, for the very beneficial and interesting information concerning how to practice when one has little time. I would like to elaborate on this beneficial and interesting information for the sake of our Family members, both advanced and at the beginning level.

We have many short kungfu sets in our school that give us many benefits and save much time in practice. Of course, this does not mean that the longer kungfu sets are not beneficial. These longer sets are useful for other purposes.

Some of the short kungfu sets are those that you have mentioned, like San Zhan, Ti Jiao, Lohan Asks the Way, Cloud Hands, and Dragon in Zen. Other short sets include Four Gates, 36-Pattern Tiger-Crane Set, Twenty Punches, Lohan Tames Tiger, Old Eagle Catches Snake, Eighteen Collection, Five Elemental Fist, Shaolin 36 Leg Technique Set, and Little Lohan Fist,

Because our training emphasizes on developing skills, we can use these short sets to develop internal force, which in turn gives us good health, vitality, longevity, mental clarity, spiritual joys, peak performance and combat efficiency. Practitioners in most other schools, despite having practiced for many years, may bot be able to do so.

All these short sets can be used to counter, not just defend against, any form of attack – if the exponent knows how. In other words, if the exponent knows the secrets, he can use any one of the short sets to counter any strike, any kick, any felling attack, and any qinna attack. If he does not know the secrets, he may think, wrongly, that the set can only be used against strikes. If he only performs the set for demonstration, and never practice combat application, he does not even know how to use the set against strikes.

San Zhan is an excellent example. When I first learned San Zhan more than 40 years ago in the early 1970s, when I was already called a kungfu genius, I did not know its sophisticated combat application, except its simple blocks and strikes. When I taught San Zhan 40 years later in 2012, I realized that it could be excellently used against any attack!

You, Damian, is an excellent living example. I remember that before a special course in 2011, you asked me how to apply San Zhan to counter felling attacks and sophisticated qinna techniques. I chose not to show you, but during the course itself you demonstrated the counters very well.

Some of these short sets are complete by themselves in the four categories of attack, i.e. they include striking, kicking, felling and qinna. Yet, with some modifications gained from the knowledge and experience in our training, we can use techniques from these short sets to execute categories of attack that are not obviously shown. For example, felling techniques are not obviously shown in San Zhan, but we can modify some San Zhan techniques to fell opponents.

Nevertheless, these modifications are for ad hoc purpose, i.e. if the appropriate combat situations arise. If we wish to apply a special category of attack, like a special kicking or qinna technique, it is better to choose it from a special set, like a 38 Leg Technique Set or a 72 Qinga Technique Set.

(Part 2 follows)

[Maxime]

Question answer 3 - last part

Question 3 - Last part of the answer

(Continued from Part 1)

San Zhan is a good example differentiating the initiated from the uninitiated. Except for kicks, for which I had to compose Ti Jiao for the Special Wuzuquan Course in 2012, San Zhan includes all the other categories of attack, and can be used to counter any category of attack, including kicks. To the uninitiated of the profundity in simplicity of San Zhan combat application, they only know that San Zhan techniques can be used for striking and for defending against striking. For the totally uninitiated in combat application, they do not even know that San Zhan techniques can be used in the category of striking.

If all other things were equal, for a non-beginner kungfu practitioner in our school, the rankings of efficiency of the above-mentioned sets in terms of certain qualities are as follows. The sets are San Zhan, Ti Jiao, Lohan Asks the Way, Cloud Hands, and Dragon in Zen. The qualities are health, combat efficiency (including techniques, skills, and internal force), and mind training.

For health, the ranking is as follows:

Cloud Hands, San Zhan, Dragon in Zen, Ti Jiao, and Lohan Asks the Way.

For combat efficiency the ranking is as follows:

San Zhan, Dragon in Zen, Cloud Hands, Ti Jiao, Lohan Asks the Way.

If we break down combat efficiency into individual qualities of techniques, skills and internal force, the lists are as follows.

For techniques, the ranking is as follows:

Dragon in Zen, San Zhan, Cloud Hands, Lohan Asks the Way, and Ti Jiao.

For skills, the ranking is as follows:

San Zhan, Cloud Hands, Dragon in Zen, Lohan Asks the Way, and Ti Jiao.

For internal force, the ranking is as follows:

San Zhan, Lohan Asks the Way, Cloud Hands, Ti Jiao, and Dragon in Zen.

For mind training, the ranking is as follows:

Dragon in Zen, San Zhan, Cloud Hands, Ti Jiao, and Lohan Asks the Way.

You have not asked these two questions, but the rankings concern the great majority of kungfu practitioners who perform kungfu for demonstration (not necessarily public) and who use free fighting which resembles kick boxing in combat.

For demonstration, the ranking is as follows:

Dragon in Zen, Lohan Asks the Way, Cloud Hands, Ti Jiao, and San Zhan.

For using free fighting that resembles kick boxing, the ranking is as follows:

Ti Jiao, Lohan Asks the Way, Dragon in Zen, Cloud Hands, and San Zhan.

The following three points should be noted. The rankings shown here are arbitrary. Other people may rank their preference differently.

When a particular set is placed last in the ranking for a particular quality, it means that, in my opinion, other sets are relatively more beneficial in this quality. Ut does not mean that this set is not beneficial at all. For example, in the quality for health, Lohan Asks the Way is placed fifth. This means that the other four sets are more beneficial in their contribution to health. By itself, Lohan Askes the Way is also very beneficial to health for our Family members.

These rankings apply to our school where our Family members can use the sets to generate an energy flow, develop internal force, understand combat application, and train the mind. Other people who do hot have any or all these abilities will rank the sets differently.

[Damian Kissey]

Much thanks to our dear Sifu and Brother Maxime

[Maxime]

Question answer 4



Question 4

After the Wuzuquan Intensive Course and the following practice I was really interested to learn the whole Wuzuquan system.

What is the best way to approach it? Are you likely to teach more Wuzuquan sets in the future?

Sifu Anton Schmick - Instructor, Shaolin Wahnam Germany


Grandmaster Wong´s Answer

You have done very well in Wuzuquan.

Personally I don’t think it is necessary for you to learn the whole Wuzuquan system. The following are the reasons.

1. You are already very good at the Wuzuquan system except Wuzuquan weapons. The Wuzuquan system, except the weapons, is found in San Zhan, its fundamental set. You can perform San Zhan very well, and is efficient in Wuzuquan combat as well as force training.

2. There are two main dimensions of Wuzuquan system, or any kungfu system, namely force training and combat application. A Wuzuquan practitioner, or any kungfu practitioner, should have internal force, which contributes to good health, vitality, longevity, mental clarity and spiritual joys; and be able to use Wuzuquan for combat, both in actual fighting and figuratively in everyday life.

3. You are already good in both these two dimensions, much better, in my opinion than many Wuzuquan practitioners. In my experience, most Wuzuquan practitioners have internal force, but not many know Wuzuquan combat application. My belief, which may be wrong, is that if a Karate or Taekwondo black-belt were to attack a typical Wuzuquan practitioner, the latter may not know what to do. This lack of Wuzuquan combat efficiency, which is actually common in all kungfu systems, is due, amongst other reasons, to the fact that Wuzuquan masters, and kungfu masters in general, are very secretive. The real Wuququan masters, and other kungfu masters, are extremely effective in combat, but they are very rare.

4. The Wuzuquan system of most schools consists mainly of Wuzuquan sets. At Level 1, for example, students learn San Zhan. At Level 2, they learn Er Shi Quan or Twenty Punches. At Level 3, they learn Qua Kok, or Hanging at a Corner, and so on. If you want to learn any Wuzuquan sets, including weapon sets, you can do so from the internet or from good books and videos. You have both the skills and knowledge to do so.

5. I believe, and others may disagree, our system is better than a typical Wuzuquan system. In a typical Wuzuquan system only Wuzuquan Kungfu is taught; in our system you have a choice of a great variety of kungfu styles., including Wuzuquan. This gives you breadth. Even in Wuzuquan kungfu, only kungfu sets are taught, but in our system you develop internal force and apply combat application, This gives you depth. \

6. In a typical Wuzuquan system, and most other kungfu systems, students only learn kungfu. In our system we systematically and progressively apply our kungfu training to enrich our daily life.

The best way to approach learning the whole Wuzuquan system is to visit all Wuzuquan schools you can find, talk to the masters and their students, particularly regarding their system, their teaching, and the benefits you can expect from learning at their schools. An indirect way is to read up as much as you can from their publicity, as well as from the internet and good books.

It is unlikely for me to teach more Wuzuquan sets in the future. I consider the Special Wuzuquan Course you attended as the most comprehensive, giving a good introduction to not only the fundamental sets, but also the history, philosophy, force training, combat application and benefits of Wuzuquan.

[Maxime]

Question answer 5

Question 5

Dear Sitaigung,

You described San Zhan as profundity in simplicity and gave us a fascinating account of the special benefits of preparing the Wuzuquan course in December 2012 in Malaysia (to be read here) which has lead to some questions on my part:

How does San Zhan create so much internal force? Is this principle found in other force training methods in our school?

What are other special internal skills which are developed by this set? How can we test them and what are their benefits in daily life?

Finally, if I may, why has this set remained the same since its creation in the Yuan Dynasty while so many other high level sets have been modified throughout history?

Steffen


Grandmaster Wong´s Answer

The reason you and many students in our school could develop a lot of internal force using San Zhan is not because San Zhan by itself is excellent for developing internal force, but because you and these students know and put into practice the necessary skills to develop internal force. If you do not know these skills, you will be unable to develop internal force even when you practice San Zhan.

I practiced San Zhan for more than two years under Sifu Chee Kim Thong who was regarded as the living treasure of the Peoples’ Republic of China, and whose school was famous for internal force. But I did not develop any internal force at that time, because I did not know the necessary skills.

These two essential skills are to be relaxed, and to be free of all thoughts. If you have these two skills, and practice correctly any internal force training techniques, you will have internal force.

I believe that the most powerful set by itself that can develop internal force is Iron Wire. When I practice Iron Wire, for just only a few months, at a time when I did not know the two essential skills, I could develop a lot of internal force, though initially I performed Iron Wire as an isometric exercise instead of as an internal force training set.

But the patterns in San Zhan, as well as in Taijiquan sets, are conducive to developing internal force. Comparatively, it is easier to develop internal force using San Zhan and Taijiquan sets than using Shaolin sets like Lohan Asks the Way and Four Gates. It is because the patterns in San Zhan and Taijiquan sets are gentle and flowing, whereas the patterns in Shaolin sets are mechanical and muscular. But one still needs the two essential skills, which are to be relaxed and to free the mind of all thoughts.

Indeed, if a practitioner can be relaxed and his mind can be freed of all thoughts, he can develop some internal force using San Zhan and any Taijiquan sets. Not many people know this fact, as is evident in the fact that many Taiji practitioners today do not have internal force.

<Part 2 follows>