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If You Were to Learn Non-Shaolin-Derived Martial Art?

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  • If You Were to Learn Non-Shaolin-Derived Martial Art?

    Dear Family and Friends,

    During a recent dinner with sifu, at the Intensive Tai Chi Quan course in Sabah, I asked the question: "If you were to learn a non-Shaolin-derived martial art, which would it be?"

    Sifu said it was difficult to pick, because so many martial arts were descendants of Shaolin kungfu, but after some consideration, sifu had a definite answer.

    So, if you would like to know sifu's choice, please share your own.

    Here is mine: Capoeira. Why? Because it looks like a lot of fun, with music and and singing and dance-like moves. I have no idea of its martial efficacy, but, as I said, it looks like fun.

    angola1.jpg

    And obviously there are no correct answers, so Enjoy!

    Yours,


    Charles
    Last edited by Charles David; 11 July 2016, 05:41 AM. Reason: clarification
    Charles David Chalmers
    Brunei Darussalam

  • #2
    fantastic!

    I would like to learn Cacoy Doce Pares. This great martial art was founded by GM Cacoy who passed away recently at the age of 96.
    I like the flowing and seemingly effortless yet very precise movements.

    Engage and maintain joyful practice!

    May all of you get the best benefits from what you do.

    Anton Schmick
    Shaolin Wahnam Germany Nord

    shaolinwahnamchina.com
    http://chikunghamburg.wordpress.com
    http://shaolinwahnam-nord.de
    http://kungfu-luebeck.de

    Comment


    • #3
      Great thread. If I hadn't already learned boxing, I would of course say boxing, because it can be the most fun to train and compete in, it is the most exciting to watch, and I think it is arguably the one that does good for most people in the world (so far). The reasons are because it gives kids and adults confidence that they can defend themselves for sure, given that if they take it far enough, they will have to face full-blooded attacks in sparring where the threat level is actually higher than most street fights (because the street fighters won't hit as hard as the sparring partners.) It also gets poor and inner city kids off drugs, out of trouble on the streets and so on. I think muay thai shares a lot of these attributes too.

      But which non-shaolin art would I most like to learn - Brazilian Jujitsu (BJJ). It has proven itself to be very effective in the UFC, and in terms of "knowing my enemy" I would like to learn jujitsu (and wrestling) moves in the belief that if I could understand them better I could stand a better chance of combatting them. I don't know much about groundfighting at the minute, and am not confident that I could keep a fight off the ground against someone who is good at it.

      My guess is that Sifu might have said Jujitsu because I believe I read in a q+a one time that he thought it was the most complete and weakness-free of all the non-Chinese martial arts, ie it had counters for every kind of attack, not just strikes like boxing, not just throws like judo etc.

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      • #4
        Mhm... It is realy difficult to find a martial art without influences of Shaolin Kung Fu. I guess I would choose Systema, the russian martial art. It looks like the people who practice it do it in a relaxed manner, make emphasis in enjoying the practice and also have some kind of energy work incorporated in their practice. It looks also very effective. All the circular movements make me think of a mixture between 8 Drunken Inmortals and Wudang Taijiquan, but maybe it's just me.


        Last edited by Davy; 31 March 2016, 10:13 PM.

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        • #5
          I would like to learn European weapons, especially the longsword and maybe the Polearm/Halberd, because they are our heritage. And there is more to them than one might commonly think.
          There are hundreds of treatises describing the moves for all types of combat (armored/non-armored/noble/soldier/peasant). Some can be found http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Treatises



          And bellow a video for a long weapons - here the poleaxe, which was after the sword the most common weapon.
          other treatise describe the halberd and staff...

          Poleaxe


          While looking through some videos I found this historical reconstruction of movements feasible in full armor (Museum of Cluny, France) ... it's definitely more than what I would have expected .

          Enjoy some Wahnam Tai Chi Chuan & Qi Gong!

          Evening Classes in Zürich
          Weekend Classes in other Swiss locations


          Website: www.taichichuan-wahnam.ch
          Facebook: www.facebook.com/Taichichuan.Wahnam.ch

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          • #6
            I think that, like Davy, I would go for Russian Systema.

            At first glance sounds very basic but it certainly isn´t.

            And it is SO real.

            Maxime

            Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

            Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


            France: www.institut-anicca.com

            Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

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            • #7
              Since the question is arts NOT derived from Shaolin, I would have to exclude a number of martial arts including Eskrima/Kali/Arnis (derived from Chinese martial arts in the past), Systema (believed to have been created during the Mongol invasion with Chinese martial arts influence, along with others), Krav Maga (though created only in the last century, but derived from a number of marital arts that could trace their roots to Japanese and hence Chinese martial arts). All 3 are martial arts I admire greatly.

              I used "Chinese martial arts" above but am actually referring to Shaolin Kungfu. It is for the same reason I would not have included Jujitsu (including BJJ) which came from qinna, a subset of Shaolin.

              My choice would therefore be Baguazhang, which, according to some accounts, was not developed or derived from Shaolin Kungfu.
              百德以孝为先
              Persevere in correct practice

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Zhang Wuji View Post
                Systema (believed to have been created during the Mongol invasion with Chinese martial arts influence, along with others)
                The problem is that there is no connection proven whatsoever with any shaolin influence in Systema. Even if there was, this system evolved for so many years with direct war experience in Russia and elsewhere...

                For me it still fits in the category of non-shaolin arts.

                Maxime

                Maxime Citerne, Chinese Medicine, Qigong Healing & Internal Arts

                Frankfurt - Paris - Alsace


                France: www.institut-anicca.com

                Germany: www.anicca-institute.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dear Charles,

                  Yes, Capoeira looks like fun.

                  Personally I'm quite contend with learning Tai Chi Chuan and wouldn't like to learn another martial art.

                  However, this short video may be helpful to choose :-) - it's about 'how to choose a martial art':


                  Kind regards,
                  Michael

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What an awesome thread!

                    I would love to learn either the ancient Indian art of Vajramukti, or the ancient Egyptian stick-fighting and martial art of Tahtib (just because they seem like extreme novelties and fantastic remnants of martial history).

                    Some kind of useful links with perhaps questionable accuracy:





                    Another obscure possibility (though it incorporates eastern arts as well) could be any kind of Native American war art or weapons art; a modernized and hybridized version of which is Okichitaw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okichitaw

                    Kristian

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                    • #11
                      A 2nd vote for western medieval armed & armoured fighted!

                      Also, Kalaripayattu:


                      I'd be interested in exploring the cross-similarities with Shaolin, such as cultivating chakras and prana, as well as static stance training:

                      Elephant Stance


                      Kalaripayattu is very complete; with an integrated health system, vital points, weapons and agility drills:

                      Agility
                      Sifu Andy Cusick

                      Shaolin Wahnam Thailand
                      Shaolin Qigong

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                      Connect:
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                      "a trained mind brings health and happiness"
                      - ancient wisdom

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                      • #12
                        Canary Garrote

                        I am still wondering what Sigung did answer...

                        Other beautiful non-Shaolin-derived Martial art is the "Garrote Canario" from Canary Islands, Spain. The art developed in the colonial times into different branches in Latin America and played an important role in the Independence Wars of countries like Venezuela and Colombia. But today the garrote practiced in these countries can differ a lot from the original style.

                        Here is a video of the Garrote as still practiced in the Canary Islands:

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Davy View Post
                          I am still wondering what Sigung did answer...

                          Ah yes. This thread.

                          If I recall correctly, Sifu said that he would choose...
                          Charles David Chalmers
                          Brunei Darussalam

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                          • #14
                            As I recall, during our conversation, Sifu said that he would would choose Tai Chi Quan, but since that was Shaolin-derived it wouldn't count. Sifu then said Baguazhang, which someone also pointed out could not be considered non-Shaolin. Then Sifu mentioned a couple other styles, but they must also be considered descendents of Shaolin kungfu. In fact there is a Chinese saying that "all martial arts come from Shaolin," so it is difficult to find a suitable choice.

                            But when pressed, Sifu did, in fact, come up with an interesting choice, namely: Jujitsu.

                            That said, Sifu pointed out that there is still a very, very big gap between Jujitsu and the Shaolin arts, and that his answer is purely hypothetical, since Sifu has no desire to learn any other martial arts.

                            We are indeed extremely lucky to be learning and practicing the very best.

                            Thanks for playing!



                            Yours,


                            Charles
                            Last edited by Charles David; 10 July 2016, 02:44 PM.
                            Charles David Chalmers
                            Brunei Darussalam

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